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Tangerine Retention Rates Q4 (Oct 4) 2017
October 30, 2017
1:01 pm
savemoresaveoften
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My advice will be to play it safe. Unless you are a lawyer and ready to take them to court if you find out later you are not qualified for the promotion for whatever reason. Even a complete log of what the CSR promised or confirmed do not mean much, and a much bigger hassle to try to argue using that as evidence. Had similar experience at another bank. Online support confirmed interest rate level. After the month ended I notice interest paid not matched. All they did was apologized wrong info was given and a token $10 as compensation. Cant do much even its an email log.
Transfer out takes a token amount of time, but potentially save a huge hassle.
I see it as "why take the risk when you dont have to"

November 1, 2017
4:50 am
fbeaulie
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Bill said
Overall the T&C seem to indicate moving from an account type (e.g. TFSA) to another type (e.g. Savings) works if done via a chequing account but I'm not sure.  

It would not work.

The important part is "you’ll earn your special interest rate on new deposits over your total balances calculated on October 3, 2017". If you transfer money from any "Applicable Account Types" to your Tangerine checking account (or to another institution) and you transfer it back to any "Applicable Account Types", your balance will remain the same as it was on October 3.

Paragraph 12 of the T&C is intended to resolve this potential ambiguity between 4 & 10.

12. Additional Interest will not be paid on transfers to external accounts that are subsequently deposited back into one or more Applicable Accounts, unless such deposits increase the sum of Account balances per Applicable Account Type above the sum of these balances as at October 3, 2017

(that being said, "external account" is not defined - you could argue that it only applies to non-tangerine accounts and that, therefore, tangerine checking account are not "external accounts". Their response is likely to be that "external accounts" means any account "external to this offer" (i.e., not an "Applicable Account"...))

November 1, 2017
8:14 am
Nav66
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Not Tangerine related but PC Financial (Simplii Financial) is offering 3% on savings, TFSAs etc. 1 Nov to end Feb 2018 up to 500K

November 1, 2017
11:34 am
Interest
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Interest said

There it is, that's the one! Thanks for posting Norman1.. hence my inquiry about slipping funds from TFSA > into Chequing > back into Savings > would that count as new deposit in Savings or does the TNG snapshot include the balance of all three of those accounts combined once a promo is in progress thus effectively blocking the use of existing funds.  

Okay so I'm still not sure if a direct transfer from TFSA -> Chequing -> back to Savings would qualify for a 2.4% promo, etc. already in progress (after a balance Snapshot) but it's been 5 days since I negotiated a direct transfer from TFSA -> Savings @ 2.5% with a CSR over the phone and the full amount including original Savings was credited as of October 31. I phoned CRA and the full amount (including interest) can be redeposited to TFSA in January.

In the future I will probably end up transferring a small amount from one account -> Chequing -> to another close to the end of the month during a promo (after a snapshot) to find out for sure if bonus interest would apply to that manoeuvre.

November 1, 2017
12:02 pm
smayer97
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Nav66 said
Not Tangerine related but PC Financial (Simplii Financial) is offering 3% on savings, TFSAs etc. 1 Nov to end Feb 2018 up to 500K  

Attractive, until I looked into the details...very restrictive...here is the long and short of it:

- you can send funds to savings or TFSA via e-Interac, draft, wire, cheque
- only options to transfer funds from savings or TFSA are drafts and wire transfers. Extra fees apply with TFSA. Cannot e-Interact out from acct.
- to send/receive cheques, you need to also open a chequing acct
- you can also use e-Interac in/out with the chequing acct...limits are $3K/day, $10k/week, $30K/month
- no other plans for other transfer methods

November 1, 2017
12:12 pm
DavidAlta13
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Interest said

Also while looking around, came across this nifty Bank account selector/ comparison tool for all banks listed on the Gov't of Canada's website..

https://itools-ioutils.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/STCV-OSVC/acst-osco-eng.aspx?f1=1&f2=1&f4=S6  

Unfortunately, the Gov't of Canada's bank account tool has some shortcomings:
First, you must enter a province, so if you enter Alberta, the Manitoba & Ontario FI's don't show up, so you must enter each province separately to find the highest posted rates;
Next, it does not show promos like Simplii's 3% to Feb 28, 2018 or any of the Tang specials this forum discusses.

November 1, 2017
2:35 pm
DavidAlta13
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Interest said

Okay so I'm still not sure if a direct transfer from TFSA -> Chequing -> back to Savings would qualify for a 2.4% promo, etc. already in progress (after a balance Snapshot) but it's been 5 days since I negotiated a direct transfer from TFSA -> Savings @ 2.5% with a CSR over the phone and the full amount including original Savings was credited as of October 31. I phoned CRA and the full amount (including interest) can be redeposited to TFSA in January.

In the future I will probably end up transferring a small amount from one account -> Chequing -> to another close to the end of the month during a promo (after a snapshot) to find out for sure if bonus interest would apply to that manoeuvre.  

There are no guarantees that Tang will repeat its offers in Jan as in the past, but if they don't change what they've been doing, here's what may happen:

Offers by phoning: Those who called Tang over the last month usually received 2.5% for 90 days from the call date on existing and new deposits, so there was no "snapshot". It is not clear whether these customers will receive Jan's quarterly special offer or not, even if funds are withdrawn by the end of Jan 3, 2018 (Tang uses the balances at the end of the 2nd business day for the "snapshot" amount over which deposits qualify as new). I know that in prior quarters, some customers with rates given for 90 days on all deposits did not get the quarterly special offers if their 90 days expired after the 2nd business day of the quarter, but I don't know if this was true for all. You could try moving money out by the end of the 2nd business day and see if you get a quarterly offer or not. If not, you will need to decide whether it's worth forgoing a slightly lower 90 day phone rate until the end of Mar to then get a quarterly special offer.

For the quarterly offers, see post #1. When I wrote it, I incorrectly thought Tang used calendar dates for the snapshot, but now know they use the 2nd business day. If you don't mind getting the posted rate for a few days, just move funds to chequing on that day. If you want higher rates from the likes of EQ or Hubert, move funds out early enough in Dec for any hold to expire in time or redeposit to Tang.

For 2017 TFSA withdrawals being redeposited in 2018, the 2nd business snapshot applies: the funds must be in chequing or another FI by the end of that day, not left in Savings.

November 17, 2017
1:08 pm
Slybanking
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If someone can refresh my memory, If I get a special offer in January and transfer some money in my TFSA, will I be able to negotiate any kind of retention decent rate with Tang ( on my existing TFSA deposit) when the offer end in April 2018?

Thanks.

November 17, 2017
2:49 pm
Loonie
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One can only speculate, but I would not anticipate a retention offer on a TFSA. They have you over a barrel with their transfer fee, so they have no reason to care about retention. I wouldn't put any TFSA money with them.

The transfer fee, $45, amounts to about 0.82% on a deposit of $5500. A retention offer for 3 months would have to be very substantial in order to balance off (let alone exceed) the transfer fee - which you would still have to pay if you transfer out in July.

November 17, 2017
4:04 pm
Bill
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TFSA's have been around for a while now, account balances are now getting substantial in some cases, so it might be worth asking if the new institution you are considering will pay any transfer-out fees levied by your old institution for you in order to get your business. Never hurts to enquire.

November 18, 2017
6:24 pm
Slybanking
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Thanks, those are good points. Ill let you know what happens when the situation evolve.

December 3, 2017
6:59 am
CHUCK21
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WARNING.....YOU WILL NOT GET THE PROMO RATE FROM TANGERINE BY OPENING A JOINT ACCOUNT WITH YOUR SPOUSE IF YOUR PRIMARY ACCOUNT IS ALREADY AT 500K.

December 4, 2017
7:13 am
Saver-Mom
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Nice problem to have, Chuck. So where will you go next? Evidently you are not a CDIC coverage seeker...

December 4, 2017
11:13 am
Bill
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Chuck21, this has been pretty standard with these promos at all fi's over the years, e.g. Simplii's current 3% promo has the same limit.

December 4, 2017
11:41 am
smayer97
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Bill said
Chuck21, this has been pretty standard with these promos at all fi's over the years, e.g. Simplii's current 3% promo has the same limit.  

And just an aside, as I pointed out above at this link:
https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/forum/tangerine-bank/tangerine-retention-rates-q4-oct-4-2017/page-13/#p26137
there are many more limitations with Simplii's promo.

December 8, 2017
2:01 am
rfdm4g4g9
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CHUCK21 said
WARNING.....YOU WILL NOT GET THE PROMO RATE FROM TANGERINE BY OPENING A JOINT ACCOUNT WITH YOUR SPOUSE IF YOUR PRIMARY ACCOUNT IS ALREADY AT 500K.  

Make the other account Joint with you as the secondary holder & your spouse as the PRIMARY holder, and hope/pray that BOTH accounts get the lottery promo rate or win that rate promo lottery on Jan 5 , April 5, July 5 & October 5.

December 8, 2017
6:10 pm
DavidAlta13
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rfdm4g4g9 said

Make the other account Joint with you as the secondary holder & your spouse as the PRIMARY holder, and hope/pray that BOTH accounts get the lottery promo rate or win that rate promo lottery on Jan 5 , April 5, July 5 & October 5.  

Tang's minimum balance "snapshot" dates are the second business day of each new quarter, with special offers effective on new money starting on the following (third) business day, not the 5th calendar day.

For 2018, the "snapshot" / new special offer effective dates will be:
Jan 3 / Jan 4;
Apr 3 / Apr 4;
Jul 4 / Jul 5; and
Oct 2 / Oct 3

It is not clear from Tang's T&C's whether two accounts, one with the husband as the only account holder, and the other a Joint with the wife as the primary account holder & the husband as secondary, would each be made special offers.
It is clear that for such accounts, the husband's special offer would not include any money in the joint account for which he is the secondary account holder.

December 8, 2017
6:22 pm
Rick
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Our account is joint with myself as the primary. The summer (2016 I THINK) I did not get an offer, they sent one to my wife. I asked a CSR , who confirmed that if she (we) wanted to take advantage of the promo, she'd have to open an account as the primary account holder. As always, it's Tang. No guarantees.

December 8, 2017
8:52 pm
Loonie
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re:tangerine,
It's really easy though to open another joint account with opposite arrangement of primary and secondary holders, assuming you both already have accounts there. You can do it on the phone. That's what we've done. It makes it easy to get best value out of offers.

But, yes, there will be a ceiling of 500K per person as primary or sole account holder.
For CDIC purposes, however, all the joint accounts, including joint chequing, will count as one, with total ceiling of 100K; and all the accounts with the same person as sole or primary will also count as one, for another 100K coverage per person.

December 8, 2017
9:29 pm
DavidAlta13
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Rick said
Our account is joint with myself as the primary. The summer (2016 I THINK) I did not get an offer, they sent one to my wife. I asked a CSR , who confirmed that if she (we) wanted to take advantage of the promo, she'd have to open an account as the primary account holder. As always, it's Tang. No guarantees.  

Sounds easy enough, as Loonie said, a quick call to open another joint account with her as the primary account holder to take advantage of any Tang offers to her.

As always, it is up to us to look after our own best interests, not Tang or any other other FI whose primary interest is making shareholder profits.
If any of us want better rates, we can simply buy the banks' shares to participate in those shareholder profits:
Current average bank yields average 3.73%; the average yields & capital gains since Dec '16 were 4.00% & 11.23%.

I also participate in Canadian mortgages via First National Financial (FN) and MCAN Mortgage (MKP). Their avg yields are now 7.54%, and the average yields & capital gains since Dec '16 were 9.93% & 12.32%.

If interest rates increase, the banks' spread (profit) should more than offset any marginal increase in mortgage, loan and credit card defaults.
The two mortgage companies' profits & losses are harder to forecast, and while I believe they would likely maintain their dividend payments, if that's all they did, their share prices might decline (capital losses) a bit. In my situation, the higher returns in the meantime make the risk/reward ratio worthwhile. This will not be true for all investors.

Disclaimer: always get professional financial advice before investing in securities; as good a track record as I have, I am not a pro, and past results don't guarantee future ones.

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