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Tangerine Retention Rates Q4 (Oct 4) 2017
December 18, 2017
6:44 pm
Saver-Mom
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Oh my god
So how much does all this net you?

December 18, 2017
7:09 pm
DavidAlta13
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Each quarter, the extra two transactions at Hubert take less than 1 minute each. If I did this with $100K, I'd get an extra $26 per quarter over moving to Tang chequing & back, so about $775/hour. Not bad for so little work. And I am blessed w more than $100K.

December 18, 2017
7:16 pm
dougjp
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If Tangerine's rate is only for 3 months and starts at the beginning of January, its of limited value when I'm earning higher for 2 of the 3 months. But yes, I could move it there for the last month if they have the best rate. I don't believe Tangerine has a withdrawal limit?

Anyway, I don't think the competitive landscape will become clear until 2 months from now. We are generally in a rising rate market too.

December 18, 2017
8:15 pm
DavidAlta13
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I suspect rates will increase here & in the States at about the same pace in 2018 as they did in 2017 (+0.5%), followed by +0.75% in each of 2019 & 2020. But obviously I could be wrong.

I think Tang has a daily online withdrawal limit of $50K; search the previous 14 pages to read the details.
I get around this by pulling from another linked FI (no limits when requested by another FI), or if needed, w a quick call.

My point was twofold:
If you wait until Feb/Mar, call Tang, and the best they offer is the same as today's 2.5%, but that's the best anyone is offering, then:
a) if you take a 90-day 2.5% offer, you will NOT receive their even higher offer for Apr 5-Jun 30 - they don't make such quarterly offers to anyone with an existing special rate such as the 2.5% one you'd just accepted; that's what's I was referring to about getting on Tang's quarterly schedule;
b) if you can get a special offer out of them for Jan 4-Mar 31, you resolve the issue in (a), and you can lock in a higher rate until Mar 31, even if you only use it after Feb 28.
If rates do rise between now and Mar 31, Tang won't be making their next special offer until Apr 3 or 4 anyway, so you wouldn't be missing out there.

Another scenario: rates go up 0.25% before Mar 31, so when you call Mar 1, they offer you 2.75% for 90 days. The rest of us get special offers Apr 3 for Apr 4-Jun 30 for 3%, and we were already getting the 2.75% Jan 3 offered rate. You don't get the 3% option, because you locked in with them for Mar 1 - May 29 (yes, they literally do 90 days on phone in requests, not rounding to the nearest month end such as May 31).

December 19, 2017
5:10 pm
SavingIsGood
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dentgal said
Just received my Oaken (Home Trust) chocolate for Christmas:)  

Cheap trills... Were they healthy variety - dark, organic - green & Black's type or junk food item? Yes, Lindt, Ferrero Rocher and similar ARE junk food of worst kind.
I guess you would bend if I drop a nickel...

December 19, 2017
5:23 pm
SavingIsGood
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Loonie said

Do I understand correctly that you have been offered a rate that would not start until Jan 1, and then only if "still available"? and that if you ask for it today, it will start immediately and run for 90 days?

What was your response?  

Sorry, I did not go into details. I will talk to Tang tomorrow to find out if I can get 2.5% AFTER current promotion. I was just checking what will be retention rate and was surprised with 2.5%. As I am currently with 2.75% until Dec. 31, I might accept 2.5% next week. Hubert will give me 2.25% (1y GIC, average) so 2.5% sounds good for 3 months. Of course, I risk everything over 100K with Tang, but every day is gamble anyway.
I see some folks go into detailed analysis involving white and black magic, crystal balls and other scientific 'what if' theories.
I prefer to live in present so if I can get 2.5% NOW, I will take it. After 3 months it will go to Hubert anyway. What if I loose next 'promotion'? Big deal. I can live without 1K of lost interest on yearly basis; I will pay less taxes and will sleep more peacefully than thinking 'will Tang/Scotia' go belly up...

December 19, 2017
6:14 pm
DavidAlta13
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Here are the facts I use for a $100K example:

If one just takes the 2.5% starting Jan 1, they'd get $616.

If one waits until Jan 4 to make a decision whether to take Tang's 2.5% rate, and moves their $ out of Tang Savings on Jan 3 and back on Jan 4, they will either get an offer for 2.75% or they won't.
If they do, then 2.75% on $100K from Jan 4 - Mar 31, plus the 1% received for Jan 1-2 = $661.
If they don't, and take the 2.5% starting Jan 4, they'd get $601.

Whether someone prefers the $616 option or the $661 vs. $601 option, they could be respected for their choice.

Similarly, we could respect anyone who today bought $100K of:
First Financial (FN) to get 6.4% ($1,606 by Mar 31), or
MCAN Mortgage (MKP) to get 8.5% ($2,120 by Mar 31) or
The Royal Bank (RY) to get 3.5% ($886 by Mar 31).

Everyone's values, risk tolerance and circumstances are their's alone and they are entitled to decide for themselves without being judged on a public forum by someone who doesn't know them.

Let's all consider respecting each other's choices here.

December 19, 2017
7:27 pm
smayer97
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DavidAlta13 said

Similarly, we could respect anyone who today bought $100K of:
First Financial (FN) to get 6.4% ($1,606 by Mar 31), or
MCAN Mortgage (MKP) to get 8.5% ($2,120 by Mar 31) or
The Royal Bank (RY) to get 3.5% ($886 by Mar 31).
 

How can you get these rates ? I have looked and cannot find them.

December 19, 2017
8:34 pm
DavidAlta13
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smayer97 said

DavidAlta13 said

Similarly, we could respect anyone who today bought $100K of:
First Financial (FN) to get 6.4% ($1,606 by Mar 31), or
MCAN Mortgage (MKP) to get 8.5% ($2,120 by Mar 31) or
The Royal Bank (RY) to get 3.5% ($886 by Mar 31).
 

How can you get these rates ? I have looked and cannot find them.  

The shares ("stocks") of these blue chip companies are traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX). You can buy them through your stock broker. All the major banks own brokerages where you can open an account. They currently charge $9.99 to make a trade (buy or sell a company's shares). They don't charge to move money between your bank and brokerage accounts.

Share prices and your investment are NOT CDIC insured: you could lose money.

They pay dividends, not interest, and are taxed at much lower rates, as the fed. & prov. gov'ts give tax credits basically equal to to the tax rates in their lowest tax brackets.

If this this all new to you, do not do anything without speaking to an expert investor or a professional financial adviser. Warren Buffet, the most famous investor, suggests that most people should not buy individual stocks and recommends buying a market ETF that owns shares in the top 100 or 500 companies on your behalf.

I have been investing in the market for 20 years.
By 2007, I was up 50%, then in 2008, I lost 30% of the money I had invested in the stock market.
Since then, I made the following annual returns on my stock investments :
2009 - 15%
2010 - 28%
2011 - (3%)
2012 - 6%
2013 - 18%
2014 - 30%
2015 - 7%
2016 - 8%
2017 - 10%
2009-2017 avg.: 11%
Total returns 2009-2017: 162% (value 262%).

My personal opinion is that there is a reasonable chance the market could decline by 25%-30% in the next 1-4 years. I have taken a lot of money out of the stock market and invested it in cash & GIC's, so I only expect to earn about 3% until I go back into the market once everything goes on sale for 25%-30% off.
If my 262% total value goes down by 25%, I will be left with gains of 96%, or avg. annual returns since 2008 of almost 8% instead of the 11% today.

If you don't want to risk losing 25%-30% in the next few years, then don't buy any shares in the stock market. Please do not even consider buying Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency - they are extremely risky and may even cause 100% losses.

The rates I quoted were based on today's stock prices. RY, FN and MKP are the trading symbols used by the TSX and investors to buy and sell the shares.

December 19, 2017
9:09 pm
smayer97
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Ah...dividends...valid strategy but different kettle of fish...thx.

December 20, 2017
5:17 am
Righand
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DavidAlta13 said

The shares ("stocks") of these blue chip companies are traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX). You can buy them through your stock broker. All the major banks own brokerages where you can open an account. They currently charge $9.99 to make a trade (buy or sell a company's shares). They don't charge to move money between your bank and brokerage accounts.

Share prices and your investment are NOT CDIC insured: you could lose money.

They pay dividends, not interest, and are taxed at much lower rates, as the fed. & prov. gov'ts give tax credits basically equal to to the tax rates in their lowest tax brackets.

If this this all new to you, do not do anything without speaking to an expert investor or a professional financial adviser. Warren Buffet, the most famous investor, suggests that most people should not buy individual stocks and recommends buying a market ETF that owns shares in the top 100 or 500 companies on your behalf.

I have been investing in the market for 20 years.
By 2007, I was up 50%, then in 2008, I lost 30% of the money I had invested in the stock market.
Since then, I made the following annual returns on my stock investments :
2009 - 15%
2010 - 28%
2011 - (3%)
2012 - 6%
2013 - 18%
2014 - 30%
2015 - 7%
2016 - 8%
2017 - 10%
2009-2017 avg.: 11%
Total returns 2009-2017: 162% (value 262%).

My personal opinion is that there is a reasonable chance the market could decline by 25%-30% in the next 1-4 years. I have taken a lot of money out of the stock market and invested it in cash & GIC's, so I only expect to earn about 3% until I go back into the market once everything goes on sale for 25%-30% off.
If my 262% total value goes down by 25%, I will be left with gains of 96%, or avg. annual returns since 2008 of almost 8% instead of the 11% today.

If you don't want to risk losing 25%-30% in the next few years, then don't buy any shares in the stock market. Please do not even consider buying Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency - they are extremely risky and may even cause 100% losses.

The rates I quoted were based on today's stock prices. RY, FN and MKP are the trading symbols used by the TSX and investors to buy and sell the shares.  

It's too late now but if you wish to go this route one could have bought RY.PR.I yielding 5.5%, it resets at GOC 5 year+453 so it will most likely be called instead of resetting.

December 20, 2017
11:54 am
rfdm4g4g9
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DavidAlta13 said

The shares ("stocks") of these blue chip companies are traded on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX). You can buy them through your stock broker. All the major banks own brokerages where you can open an account. They currently charge $9.99 to make a trade (buy or sell a company's shares). They don't charge to move money between your bank and brokerage accounts.

Share prices and your investment are NOT CDIC insured: you could lose money.

They pay dividends, not interest, and are taxed at much lower rates, as the fed. & prov. gov'ts give tax credits basically equal to to the tax rates in their lowest tax brackets.

If this this all new to you, do not do anything without speaking to an expert investor or a professional financial adviser. Warren Buffet, the most famous investor, suggests that most people should not buy individual stocks and recommends buying a market ETF that owns shares in the top 100 or 500 companies on your behalf.

I have been investing in the market for 20 years.
By 2007, I was up 50%, then in 2008, I lost 30% of the money I had invested in the stock market.
Since then, I made the following annual returns on my stock investments :
2009 - 15%
2010 - 28%
2011 - (3%)
2012 - 6%
2013 - 18%
2014 - 30%
2015 - 7%
2016 - 8%
2017 - 10%
2009-2017 avg.: 11%
Total returns 2009-2017: 162% (value 262%).

My personal opinion is that there is a reasonable chance the market could decline by 25%-30% in the next 1-4 years. I have taken a lot of money out of the stock market and invested it in cash & GIC's, so I only expect to earn about 3% until I go back into the market once everything goes on sale for 25%-30% off.
If my 262% total value goes down by 25%, I will be left with gains of 96%, or avg. annual returns since 2008 of almost 8% instead of the 11% today.

If you don't want to risk losing 25%-30% in the next few years, then don't buy any shares in the stock market. Please do not even consider buying Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency - they are extremely risky and may even cause 100% losses.

The rates I quoted were based on today's stock prices. RY, FN and MKP are the trading symbols used by the TSX and investors to buy and sell the shares.  

Chasing Dividends can be risky too.

Sometimes people just see the high Dividend yield which the stock is paying, but the actual share price can tank considerably resulting in Capital loss which is far higher than what the Dividends pay out.

No point in buying a $ 50 stock which pays you a yearly 8 % dividend, if that stock itself is going to be $ 25 by the end of the year. Of course it can be $ 100 too by the end of the year.

Can't compare GIC & Savings account interest rates with Dividend % yield of Bank stocks.

December 20, 2017
3:04 pm
Bill
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Drop in share price does not create capital loss, that only happens if you sell at a loss. If you hold dividend paying stocks for income during your lifetime you need not worry about capital losses, or gains, or what the share price is doing after you buy. You may have to worry about the sustainability of dividend payouts or the risk the business fails. But I agree, this topic has nothing in common with HISA/GIC rates.

December 21, 2017
10:50 am
rfdm4g4g9
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Bill said
Drop in share price does not create capital loss, that only happens if you sell at a loss. If you hold dividend paying stocks for income during your lifetime you need not worry about capital losses, or gains, or what the share price is doing after you buy. You may have to worry about the sustainability of dividend payouts or the risk the business fails. But I agree, this topic has nothing in common with HISA/GIC rates.  

Yes only if you sell there will be a capital loss.

But you do have to worry about what the share price is doing, as eventually one day you are going to sell, and that time it will be a huge loss. You are not going to hold on forever, if the stock is a dog & the price is not going to increase again.

The paper loss will eventually be a real loss as the capital has eroded.

December 21, 2017
10:59 am
rfdm4g4g9
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Tangerine is calling people whose promo rate is expiring on December 31 and offering them 2.5 % for 6 months , on the ENTIRE balance.

I guess they know all these guys will be withdrawing money in anticipation of the January, 2018 NET new deposit promotional rate, which they come up with each quarter. So they want to stop the bleeding, and with Simplii giving 3 %, this time the money withdrawn might not even come back to Tangerine 🙂

After a long time they are offering a retention rate for 6 months - 180 days, otherwise its mostly been 1.6 % , 2 % or 2.5 % for only 90 days after some negotiations.

I guess the Simplii - 3 % rate is finally getting to them.

December 21, 2017
11:17 am
RicksBank
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2.5% for 6 months seems a good deal but only if they stop the quarterly promos of 3% or better. Of course there's no way to know if they'll stop them. One could end up with

I thought EQ might improve on their 2.3% by now.

December 21, 2017
11:54 am
Rick
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I'm leery. Especially since they seem to get aggressive with the retention offers just before the quarterly promos end and retention rates seem to fall right in the middle of the quarterly promo rates. Some are offered more, some less than what they could get with the retention rate, depends on the mystery algorithm. Probably won't get a quarterly offer if you jump on the retention offer and so far, my quarterly offers have been above what they offered for retention, so I'll sit on it until after Dec 31 and see what happens. No compunctions at all moving it back to EQ for anything under 2.75, and am truthfully expecting at least 3% considering recent rate increases and aggressive competition. I won't keep it with Tang for an extra .2% above retention offers. My liquid cash has already been with them since January, far longer than expected, and they need to know they have to work to keep my business.

December 21, 2017
3:58 pm
Bill
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I think it's always been the case that if you accept a retention offer you don't get the quarterly offer. But this is a new technique, i.e. calling people, and before their current offer is expired, and for a 6-month period. So maybe their usual quarterly offers at the beginning of the month are history - we'll see soon enough.

December 21, 2017
5:34 pm
DavidAlta13
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OR, maybe in anticipation of rising rates, their Jan '18 and/or Apr '18 quarterly offers will go UP from last quarter's 2.75%, and they are trying to get some of us to lock in for six months at the lower 2.50%.

December 21, 2017
6:00 pm
DavidAlta13
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We appear to have stopped discussing the Q4 (Oct 4 '17 - Dec 31 '17) 2017 special offer and started the Q1 (Jan 4 '18 to Mar 31 '18) special offer.

Who wants to start a new topic "Tangerine Special Offer on New Deposits Jan 4 - Mar 31, 2018"?

In my Hubert account, I moved my $ in today, pulling it from Tang Savings. I start earning interest at Hubert today, and will continue to earn interest in my Tang Savings until Dec 26, as the withdrawal will take two business days to be posted to my Tang Savings on Dec 27.

Please write your comments in the forum.