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Integration weekend: Sep 22-24, we've been warned!
August 24, 2023
7:24 pm
AltaRed
BC Interior
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Especially since the tie-in between an individual, FI and CRA is one's Social Insurance Number for income tax reporting. Even if possible, what can possibly go wrong with an FI having one's cell phone number and secure (strong password) email address?

August 25, 2023
4:55 am
savemoresaveoften
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Winnie said

I politely disagree, that Hubert is an online FI.
Hubert do not allow to view and download CRA tax slips after integration. Only via Canada Post.

I personally do have cellphone and many email addresses too, that I'm using for my online shopping, etc, but I prefer not to provide my cellphone and email to any FI.

I prefer not to connect my financial dealing with FI's and CRA to my cellphone and emails.

I have decided not to continue with Hubert because of that "happy New Hubert Digital Experience" and "improved service" after integration.  

You are free to choose which FI u want to bank with. Just keep in mind, email and cellphone# is almost as important as your legal name and address these days, when it comes to communications and what’s not. Whether you like it or not, it’s already happened and won’t turn back.

August 25, 2023
7:29 am
Winnie
Ontario
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AltaRed said
Some folks here might be interested in some of those reasons. I cannot think of a single reason myself.  

Whoever is interested, feel free to send me a PM and I will disclose my reasons there. This topic is dedicated to Hubert integration weekend.

mmlt said
You mention the CRA and FI connecting the dots as a reason for not giving out your email and phone. How do you do take care of business at FIs without providing personal information? I'd really like to know how this ties in with avoiding the CRA.  

I do provide all required personal info to FI and CRA, I do not hide anything, that required by law, such as SIN, name, address, DOB.

Cellphone and email address is NOT a mandatory requirement for CRA and all FI's, that I'm dealing with, except only EQ, to which I did provided my email address.

AltaRed said
... Even if possible, what can possibly go wrong with an FI having one's cell phone number and secure (strong password) email address?  

I did not said, that something can possible go wrong, I only said, that my preferences are not to provide cellphone and email address.

Just imagine, that my life is a bit different, for example.

I use (switch ON and OFF) my cellphone only when I want or need and usually that happens once per 2 months approximately.

The same with emails. I can only check them, when I'm expecting some emails or whatever time I fell like.

So, I don't see any valid reason to provide my cellphone and emails to FI and CRA, because they will not be able to properly communicate with me anyways.

savemoresaveoften said
Just keep in mind, email and cellphone# is almost as important as your legal name and address these days, when it comes to communications and what’s not. Whether you like it or not, it’s already happened and won’t turn back.  

So far they are optional.
When they will be mandatory, I will provide them to CRA and FI.
Until that time I'm very happy with my simple way of living.

August 25, 2023
8:24 am
cgouimet
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Email & Cell numbers @ FI's and CRA have handy security benefits.

Many can be set to notify you of account settings changes and transactions over certain amounts so you can be alerted immediately if anything/anyone is doing something to your account on your behalf.

Many can also alert you immediately of a login on your account.

CGO
August 25, 2023
12:34 pm
savemoresaveoften
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cgouimet said
Email & Cell numbers @ FI's and CRA have handy security benefits.

Many can be set to notify you of account settings changes and transactions over certain amounts so you can be alerted immediately if anything/anyone is doing something to your account on your behalf.

Many can also alert you immediately of a login on your account.  

Exactly. What not to like to receive an alert of any transactions (good or fake). To me that is one serious reason to let an FI have both my cell# and email. Especially with the credit card transactions !!

August 25, 2023
12:46 pm
cgouimet
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savemoresaveoften said

Exactly. What not to like to receive an alert of any transactions (good or fake). To me that is one serious reason to let an FI have both my cell# and email. Especially with the credit card transactions !!  

Might be of value if you have family members with typo issues as joint account owners ...

sf-winksf-winksf-wink

CGO
August 26, 2023
12:33 am
RetirEd
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Hmm... I have never done any on-line shopping, and don't intend to start.

ON SHARING PHONE AND E-MAIL DATA FOR FI USE:

E-mail and mobile phone data changes fairly often compared to Social Insurance Number (like, that's forever!) or financial institution client data. E-mail is not secure, as the financial institutions themselves keep reminding us when encouraging us to use it.

And E-mail often gets bounced by spamfilters, or whole E-mail providers may be blacklisted due to spam relaying. (Even the biggest ones!) E-mail is not that hard to spoof either, like mobile phone numbers. E-mail providers often lose all their data or quit the business. (I've had that happen with two long-time providers, and friends often call to say their E-mail's gone poof and could I take their new URL and give my own again, since they've lost everything.)

When one buys a new phone or loses an old one, one had better have a backup of one's phone numbers and, if necessary, text messages. Most phones allow them to be copied to SIM cards or removable memory cards (mine's a micro-SD). Bonus if you can easily transfer the data to your home computer (the one not connected to the internet!)

RetirEd

August 26, 2023
5:22 pm
Doug
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The security around SMS- and e-mail-based two-factor authentication is, frankly, laughable if not pathetic. sf-frown

What we really need is lobby our Members of Parliament to introduce legislation to the Bank Act requiring federally-regulated financial institutions to use an open standards-based two-factor authentication technology, such as a TOTA-based security token, compatible with hardware- and software-based apps (i.e., Microsoft Authenticator, Google Authenticator, Authy, YubiKey, etc.). sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

August 27, 2023
5:01 am
savemoresaveoften
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Doug said
The security around SMS- and e-mail-based two-factor authentication is, frankly, laughable if not pathetic. sf-frown

What we really need is lobby our Members of Parliament to introduce legislation to the Bank Act requiring federally-regulated financial institutions to use an open standards-based two-factor authentication technology, such as a TOTA-based security token, compatible with hardware- and software-based apps (i.e., Microsoft Authenticator, Google Authenticator, Authy, YubiKey, etc.). sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug  

Why is ur proposal better/more secure than the current SMS 2 factor verification ? Curious to learn. Also is your proposal practical or more of in an ideal world situation.

August 27, 2023
3:47 pm
pooreva
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Doug said
The security around SMS- and e-mail-based two-factor authentication is, frankly, laughable if not pathetic. sf-frown
TOTA-based security token, compatible with hardware- and software-based apps (i.e., Microsoft Authenticator, Google Authenticator, Authy, YubiKey, etc.). sf-cool 

Are you saying that we need another gizmo in our pockets/purses for confirming we are who we claim to be?
Or another app to do that? App can fail; no Internet; no Data - THEN WHAT????
BTW, I do NOT trust Microsoft, Google nor any other company.
What's wrong sending 2FA as SMS or sending a code to voice phone?

August 27, 2023
5:10 pm
mmlt
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Sms authentication is more secure than email authentication but neither are great as Doug stated.
Authentication apps are easy to use, secure, and fairly common except in banking. I don't know why banking doesn't give us that option when most email services and more mundane websites do. One FI I deal with needs separate authenticator codes for various actions within my account.
I have not went the FIDO route yet although a few services offer it. It seems to be slow taking off and you need to put a lot of trust in a usb key and the company you buy it from. Usb keys can be lost, damaged, or corrupted.

August 27, 2023
6:39 pm
savemoresaveoften
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mmlt said
Sms authentication is more secure than email authentication but neither are great as Doug stated.
Authentication apps are easy to use, secure, and fairly common except in banking. I don't know why banking doesn't give us that option when most email services and more mundane websites do. One FI I deal with needs separate authenticator codes for various actions within my account.
I have not went the FIDO route yet although a few services offer it. It seems to be slow taking off and you need to put a lot of trust in a usb key and the company you buy it from. Usb keys can be lost, damaged, or corrupted.  

why is an authentiator app better, when it is installed and access on the same cell phone that i rec the 2FA ? Dont understand the logic.

August 28, 2023
5:39 am
Nehpets
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In the hopes of getting back to the original topic of this discussion thread, detailing the regressive moves being initiated by Hubert, the latest is an advisory on their site requiring agreement to the following terms and disclaimers when setting up a push eft:

member to anyone
This service operates under the following conditions:
We will start the transfer of funds on the next processing day. Please allow three to five processing days for your transfer to be completed. Processing days are Monday to Friday, aside from observed holidays.
Please note that funds must be available in order for the transfer to complete.
Sunova Credit Union has made reasonable effort to ensure that the correct financial institution is chosen for the recipient, however incorrect data entered by the member may result in monies being transferred to a recipient other than the intended - Sunova Credit Union is not responsible for data entry errors by the member and consequently the transference of monies to the non-intended recipient.

Stephen

August 28, 2023
5:19 pm
davidgeorge
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Received the 16-digit number today by mail for new login.

August 29, 2023
6:58 am
cgouimet
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I installed the Access CU app on my Android Phone but it isn't available to install on my more recent Android Tablet. All other FI's we use on Android work on phones AND tablets ...

CGO
August 29, 2023
10:02 am
friskyib
British Columbia
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For those of you that are concerned with giving out your email address or mobile number to an FI.

Keep in mind the younger population will comply and go with the flow and accept and provide the current demands of new technology.

The older population may or may not want to comply. Those that don’t want to comply can be those paranoid ones, those computer illiterate ones, or just plain ordinary hold outs just out of principal. There is nothing wrong for not wanting to trust and comply. But eventually you will be buried in being behind or succumb to the new ways of doing things.

Way back we would get lousy service at a gas station and would have to wait for unreasonable lengths of times to gas up and get on. Then the odd gas station would have a good complement of gas jockeys and that would be your new preference. Now we are much faster at it all because we do self serve.

Then came the dial up internet and you would use an “add on” modem that made funny noises. Was slow as ever. But just a fun adventure and not a requirement. But today, I would say, it is a requirement. And an expensive one that every business you deal with saves their expenses at your cost. And you no longer need a second phone line or have only one line that no one can call you on. Some businesses forced us to receive our billing by email or an email reminder to retrieve it ourselves....or they would charge us for mailing it. These businesses did not care if you were handicapped, elderly, or could not afford the cost of the internet and a computer. They saved, postage, labour, envelopes, paper and printing costs. But with Canada Post and their easy to break into community mail boxes.....it was easy to succumb to a more secure and convenient method. Ooooops I eventually gave in.

Then comes banking by phone and the ATM machine. But the hold outs kept going to a teller on Monday through Friday 10am to 3pm. Go to a bank now to see a teller.....you wait and wait and wait because everyone else is sorting out all of their self imposed issues while you wait 45 minutes for a US dollar bank draft. Ooooops I eventually gave in to online banking and phone banking at the investment level. I couldn’t tell you the last time I used an ATM, debit card, or visited a bank branch.

So in comes the mobile phone. My first one was supplied by my employer. They were expensive, no data, and everyone wanted one, including me. Oh, what a mistake. I am now available 24/7 and even when I am driving. Due to moving far away I bought one for my wife and it allowed unlimited evening and week end calling which allowed us to keep in touch with family for $49 a month. But when things went off the rails it was $400 a month.

So now retired and we have a land line and a mobile phone each. Now those mobile phones are a convenience for my wife and I to keep in contact. Not much data and very little amounts of calling minutes. We “may” share our numbers to some friends and family. But not with businesses and we don’t widely accept the idea of land line or mobile phone, at our expense, being a target for corrupt or non corrupt solicitations! And ooooooops we gave in and supplied or Doctor and a few businesses with our mobile numbers. But,,,,,much to my surprise your Doctors office supplies our number to other Doctors offices. Like we are old.....and I don’t carry my phone from room to room, or while working outside, nor do I have a blue tooth connection to use while driving. And I don’t turn back if I realize I forgot to bring my phone. Why is it that every business wants your mobile number and your land line number doesn’t suffice? Is it your second SIN# or the phone that “they think” you will “always” answer? And ha ha what about the couples that share one only, mobile phone?

So what am I getting at?

My Oaken account password went bad, I thought. On Saturday I received 5 emails at 4 am about system access. I immediately changed both of our passwords and erred on one. I did the forgot password. And you have to supply your email address that you have in your profile. So I start the process and did not read thoroughly “anything” that morning. So I now see the emails at 4am were for system access on the two days before and those logins were legitimate, and Oaken erroneously sent them for the second time. So I now read the forgot password email and the reset asks also for a code that was texted to me! Oh great I am a hold out on giving FIs my mobile number. So I called Oaken and they answered on a Saturday. Wow I was surprised.....the guy I spoke to said 4 people were working as they were having a lot of system problems. He was very good and was able to send all the codes etc by email. It’s all fixed up. He put my mobile number in my profile and I added my wife’s to her profile. Why did I do that? I am a hold out!! Bottom line if I want to do the forget password and make a new one on my own.....Oaken needs both my mobile number and email address in my profile.

So.....keep reading.

On Monday I called about the process of a transfer that initiated. There was a blurb about voice “something or another” that just skipped by. So now speaking to a live person.....she says same.....I ask for a repeat and I declined. Now I was in the identification process of name address, sin number etc. I got my update.

So Oaken now has voice verification and once you “join up” and you no longer have to do “all that other” verifying that it’s you.

So my new policy is to review all alerts with banks and credit cards and to include email addresses and mobile numbers.

Secondly need to review all successors and joint relationships at every FI.

Did I subscribe to voice verification?? NOPE!!

Why?
Will wait to see if it is infallible or not.
“Artificial Intelligence” is now copying voices as per 60 Minutes on Sunday.
I can see other benefits to not subscribe.

?Should these hold outs be reconsidered in giving out to an FI?
Voice recognition
Email address
Mobile phone number

August 29, 2023
11:31 am
Winnie
Ontario
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friskyib said
The older population may or may not want to comply. Those that don’t want to comply can be those paranoid ones, those computer illiterate ones, or just plain ordinary hold outs just out of principal.
 

You forgot to mention people, who simply like to enjoy life and not to be obligated to check their emails/text messages/calls.

August 29, 2023
12:03 pm
cgouimet
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Winnie said

friskyib said
The older population may or may not want to comply. Those that don’t want to comply can be those paranoid ones, those computer illiterate ones, or just plain ordinary hold outs just out of principal.
 

You forgot to mention people, who simply like to enjoy life and not to be obligated to check their emails/text messages/calls.  

Or like those who drive without checking mirrors and blind spots or go faster in zero visibility cause they can't see anything that could possibly hurt them ...

CGO
August 29, 2023
12:25 pm
friskyib
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Winnie said

friskyib said
The older population may or may not want to comply. Those that don’t want to comply can be those paranoid ones, those computer illiterate ones, or just plain ordinary hold outs just out of principal.
 

You forgot to mention people, who simply like to enjoy life and not to be obligated to check their emails/text messages/calls.  

lol...I guess that falls under hold outs!!!

August 29, 2023
12:30 pm
friskyib
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cgouimet said

Or like those who drive without checking mirrors and blind spots or go faster in zero visibility cause they can't see anything that could possibly hurt them ...  

lol.......are you forgetting about all the newer cars that have cameras in the back making rear view mirrors redundant and all those sensors that tell you are too close to the car in front of you or that you have some one on either side of you. M a y b e they are checking. But will the dings and dongs have any meaning or just become redundant sounds!! CRASH!!!

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