Targeted Simplii HISA offer of 4.75% (was 3.00% and 3.85%) ending October 31st 2022 | Page 11 | Simplii Financial | Discussion forum

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Targeted Simplii HISA offer of 4.75% (was 3.00% and 3.85%) ending October 31st 2022
December 4, 2022
4:50 pm
Doug
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agit said
The daily interest for 3.85% is 0.0105479%
The daily interest for 4.75% is 0.0130136%  

That's not how I do it. I multiply the daily balance by the annual interest rate, divide by 365 or 366 (as applicable), then multiply by 28, 29, 30, or 31 days.

But to each his or her own. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

December 4, 2022
5:10 pm
norris2
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I think you cracked it.

They paid 0.4% base interest each month end - I think that calculation worked out correctly for everyone.

For the bonus, if I use 3.8963415% on the complete 121 day average daily balance I also come out within pennies.

The "new" money criteria for Sep 1 - Oct 31 didn't factor into my interest. I never added new money and still got the 3.8963415%

Seems like if you withdrew all you money on Sep 1 you would have got the higher averaged rate for Jul 1 to Aug 31 instead of 3.85%.

Norman1 said
Simplii didn't really pay 4¾% in September and October.

If one calculates interest of (a) 3.85% for the daily closing balances of July 1 to August 31 and (b) 4.75% for the daily closing balances of September 1 to October 31, one does not end up with the total interest (regular + promotional) Simplii paid.

As the terms of the offer described, Simplii seems to have calculated one average of the daily closing balances over the 123 days, July 1 to October 31.

Instead of paying 123 days of 3.85% on that 123-day average balance, Simplii paid 62 days of 3.85% and 61 days of 4.75% on that average balance. That works to be equivalent to paying 123 days of 4.2963415% on that average balance.  

December 5, 2022
6:11 am
Bill
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As always, the interest calculation ends up being just fine.

anono, did you really end up getting credited with the $150 promised by the rep as an acknowledgement of their erroneous calculation?

December 5, 2022
8:19 am
Norman1
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norris2 said

The "new" money criteria for Sep 1 - Oct 31 didn't factor into my interest. I never added new money and still got the 3.8963415%

Seems like if you withdrew all you money on Sep 1 you would have got the higher averaged rate for Jul 1 to Aug 31 instead of 3.85%.

Yes, that's my understanding as well.

There was no "new money" criteria for the September 1 to October 31 period.

December 5, 2022
8:35 am
Norman1
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Bill said
If I understand you're also saying they didn't pay 3.85% in July and August, they paid 4.2963415% during that time, based on the 123-day average balance. As they did in September and October.

That's right. Simplii effectively paid 4.2963415% the whole time.

In any event, I don't see the difference if you get 3.85% for 62 days plus 4.75% for 61 days vs. the 4.3% over 123 days, assuming the average daily balance over the 123 days is used for the two interest calculations.

There would be no difference between paying

  1. 3.85% for 62 days plus 4.75% for 61 days and
  2. 4.2963415% for 123 days

on the same 123-day average balance.

But, there would be a difference between paying

  1. 3.85% for 62 days on the average of July 1 to August 31 plus 4.75% for 61 days on the average of September 1 to October 1 and
  2. 4.2963415% for 123 days on the 123-day average balance.
December 5, 2022
9:38 am
Lodown
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Simplii's horrid advertising of the specifics of this promo coupled with using 4.2963415% on the closing daily balance over the 123 days, tells me they had the Xmas spirit in mind..... to scrooge their clients.

December 5, 2022
9:41 am
Lodown
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Nontheless, after I adjusted to use the 123 days...Simplii still owes me $7.95..go figure.

December 5, 2022
12:29 pm
norris2
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Norman1 said
But, there would be a difference between paying

  1. 3.85% for 62 days on the average of July 1 to August 31 plus 4.75% for 61 days on the average of September 1 to October 1 and
  2. 4.2963415% for 123 days on the 123-day average balance.

  

Yes, if you took all your money out on Aug 31 you essentially ended up with a better rate than you'd assume on first glance. But for people who were enticed by the 4.75% offer Sep 1 and deposited significant new money I'd feel short-charged and would complain and demand the full 4.75% rate.

I didn't trust the Sept 1 new money terms and moved 1/2 of my money to the NBC 4.25% promo, so I ironically ended up with pretty much the same rate.

December 5, 2022
9:58 pm
Norman1
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Lodown said
Nontheless, after I adjusted to use the 123 days...Simplii still owes me $7.95..go figure.

I was able to get within ½¢.

That 4.2963415% is the total interest, regular plus promotional. If one is checking the promotional interest paid November 17, one should use

4.2963415% - 0.4% = 3.8963415%

as norris2 did.

Also, check any spreadsheet formulas that have references to cells in another row. They may no longer refer to what one wishes after one inserts rows between existing rows.

I was off around $4 because I inserted a row for a missed withdrawal. Number of days for one closing balance was thrown off; date from next row minus the date from the current row became date from the next-next row minus the date from the current row!

December 6, 2022
8:02 am
Bill
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If all this is true, as norris2 points out doesn't this mean that those who only had money on deposit in Sept and Oct and were told they were getting 4.75% have been defrauded by CIBC?

December 6, 2022
9:25 pm
Norman1
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I think it depends on what they were told exactly.

The bonus interest Simplii paid indicates Simplii paid 61 days of 4.75% on the average balance of the entire 123-day offer period.

In contrast, some expected Simplii to pay equivalent to 61 days of 4.75% on the average balance of the last 61 days of the offer period.

December 7, 2022
4:01 am
anono
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Bill said
As always, the interest calculation ends up being just fine.

anono, did you really end up getting credited with the $150 promised by the rep as an acknowledgement of their erroneous calculation?  

Yes, I did.

When I run the calculation using 3.85%/4.75% rates on the average daily closing balance for the entire period as others have mentioned, it does align with what Simplii originally paid me. So I agree that appears to have been their method.

But this was not what they told me they would do on chat + phone when I checked (4.75% on balances in the last 2 months). So I personally wouldn't say "as always." Manulife has also made (and after asking, audited and corrected) errors in the past even vs. their posted T&Cs. Which is the only reason I started auditing these.

With this iteration of the spreadsheet it'll be a 2-minute task from now on at least...

December 7, 2022
6:05 am
Bill
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You're right, anono, interest calculation not as advertised, I'm surprised CIBC can get away with this. Though maybe in the legalese of the t&c it allowed for this "averaged" calculation, I don't know. And those who had money there only in July or August got more than advertised, so that was very nice of them.

December 7, 2022
10:06 am
InterestThis
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Now we know why certain banks like CIBC, Scotia, offer these complicated, hidden arcane methods of paying out interest.
It would be too easy to just calculate and pay out interest monthly, with running totals like Tangerine.
Meanwhile the same bank, Scotia offers all those crazy tiers and levels, its designed to confuse people, so more profit for them.
Good to have lots of bank stocks.

December 15, 2022
1:12 pm
agit
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delete sorry

December 16, 2022
9:46 am
Lodown
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I did an online chat in September 2022. The chat agent confirmed I was earning 4.75% as of Sep 1st. I took a screenshot of the conversation. The next day I made a large deposit into my Simplii account.

I recently called Simplii and explained that I was told I was earning 4.75% as of Sept 1st and not approx. 4.30% as I received. He agreed and made a deposit into my account to make up the approx .45% difference. I gave high scores to the agent on the survey email I received soon after. For once, Simplii made it simply.

On a related note, I wonder if it is legal for a Canadian bank to advertise a current interest rate on their bank accounts but pay out an interest rate amount which is based on what one has in the account months before.

December 16, 2022
12:00 pm
Lodown
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Norman1 said

Lodown said
Nontheless, after I adjusted to use the 123 days...Simplii still owes me $7.95..go figure.

I was able to get within ½¢.

That 4.2963415% is the total interest, regular plus promotional. If one is checking the promotional interest paid November 17, one should use

4.2963415% - 0.4% = 3.8963415%

as norris2 did.

Also, check any spreadsheet formulas that have references to cells in another row. They may no longer refer to what one wishes after one inserts rows between existing rows.

I was off around $4 because I inserted a row for a missed withdrawal. Number of days for one closing balance was thrown off; date from next row minus the date from the current row became date from the next-next row minus the date from the current row!  

I did my calculations correctly in that I added all monthly interest over the period and the November 17th interest amount. Days used were all correct as well. Seems they do make errors as in August 2022 they posted in my account an Interest "credit" of $12.05 and a few days later an Interest "debit" of $2.19...have no idea why. In any case, As I posted already, Simplii made good and paid me exactly what I calculated to be 3.85% from July 1 to Aug 31 and 4.75% from Sep 1 to Oct 31, 2022.

Please write your comments in the forum.