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Investment Savings Account (ISA) Interest Rates
January 30, 2023
1:22 pm
bobwatford
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Sorry for this 'one off' off topic. Does Scotia Itrade still offer 5 order deep market depth for the basic brokerage account the way Etrade used to? I only ask because the amount of money I'm leaving on the table with TD for their 3.8% ISA almost makes it worth changing brokerages. And the basic TD Direct doesn't give any market depth which I miss from the old Etrade days.

January 30, 2023
9:31 pm
Norman1
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Yes, Scotia iTRADE still has the partial Level II real time quotes for Canadian stocks from its former E*TRADE Canada days.

January 31, 2023
3:05 pm
Greedy Guy
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My TD account now shows 4.05% for TDB8150

January 31, 2023
7:22 pm
Dean
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Greedy Guy said

My TD account now shows 4.05% for TDB8150

    DITTO

And as a reminder, it's covered by CDIC. sf-laugh

    Dean

P.S.
The USD version (TDB1852)
remains @ 3.90% (for now).

sf-cool " Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! " sf-cool

January 31, 2023
7:34 pm
smihaila
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Greedy Guy said
My TD account now shows 4.05% for TDB8150  

Whoa! Very true. Even though the Fund's official page is still showing the 3.80% (Jan 31st 2023):
https://www.td.com/ca/en/asset-management/additional-solutions

January 31, 2023
10:51 pm
bobwatford
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Norman1 said
Yes, Scotia iTRADE still has the partial Level II real time quotes for Canadian stocks from its former E*TRADE Canada days.  

Nice thanks....hmmm....I have something to think about then. That being said as just noted TDB8150 did just raise their rates 25 bp so may just stick with that now. I do love market depth though and am trading much more these days. I should probably just stop being such a cheapie and pay for it.

February 1, 2023
5:43 am
savemoresaveoften
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bobwatford said
Nice thanks....hmmm....I have something to think about then. That being said as just noted TDB8150 did just raise their rates 25 bp so may just stick with that now. I do love market depth though and am trading much more these days. I should probably just stop being such a cheapie and pay for it.  

Unless you are trading big size or very illiquid stock, being able to see market depth does not help much, Algo trading will beat any human when it comes to depth trading,

February 2, 2023
9:25 am
bobwatford
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savemoresaveoften said

Unless you are trading big size or very illiquid stock, being able to see market depth does not help much, Algo trading will beat any human when it comes to depth trading,  

While probably true.....it's always nice to see what's showing behind the bids and asks. IE if there is a HUGE number of shares on either the bid or ask depth not showing on the actual bid or ask it can help you make a decision about what is actually for sale. Only seeing one board lot on the actual ask and not knowing there are 10,000 board lots sitting one penny above it is a good example. Of course hidden orders etc complicate things but not having any depth it's hard to tell where you're at. Not daytrading....but moderately actively trading.

February 2, 2023
9:37 am
AltaRed
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I find real time Level 2 (in my case Scotia iTrade's Flight desk software) is especially helpful with ETFs where the ETF market maker will have large lots on both sides at/near NAV with a 1-3 cent spread.

February 2, 2023
11:19 am
ca-tech-fire
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TD Direct investing has an offer where if you open an account and put 3000$ in you will earn $300. However, if you hold less than $15,000 with them, they will charge your $25 quarterly, unless you have someone else in your household to help with that balance. (I don't think they charge you for the first 6 months since your account was opened) I have moved some USD money in and put it in TDB8152. For me the rate is higher than the 2% that EQ was paying me.

CIBC has a similar offer, but they only pay $100 for putting in $5000.

February 2, 2023
11:35 am
Dean
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smihaila said

Whoa! Very true. Even though the Fund's official page is still showing the 3.80% (Jan 31st 2023):

https://www.td.com/ca/en/asset-management/additional-solutions  

They often take a day or two, to update that page.

Check it now sf-smile

    Dean

sf-cool " Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! " sf-cool

February 11, 2023
3:57 pm
nerdralph
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Horizons CASH ETF seems to offer a higher return than any of the HISA funds (i.e. DYN6004). 5.02 gross - .13 MER = 4.88, vs 4.5% for DYN6004.
https://horizonsetfs.com/ETF/cash/

February 11, 2023
5:38 pm
Bruford
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nerdralph said
Horizons CASH ETF seems to offer a higher return than any of the HISA funds (i.e. DYN6004). 5.02 gross - .13 MER = 4.88, vs 4.5% for DYN6004.
https://horizonsetfs.com/ETF/cash/  

Depending on how you transact this, there could be additional up front/trailer fees associated with purchase and sale?

February 11, 2023
5:40 pm
Bruford
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nerdralph said
Horizons CASH ETF seems to offer a higher return than any of the HISA funds (i.e. DYN6004). 5.02 gross - .13 MER = 4.88, vs 4.5% for DYN6004.
https://horizonsetfs.com/ETF/cash/  

Also I am sure this is not covered by CDIC

February 11, 2023
6:09 pm
Norman1
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The fact sheet says there is no CDIC coverage:

Although the ETF primarily invests in bank deposit accounts, it is not covered by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government deposit insurer.

It is an exchange-traded fund and not transacted through the mutual fund system like the ISA's. So, there are trading commissions except through one of the zero-trading-commission brokers.

Also, there's no guarantee that one will get $50 when one tries to sell. One hopes that there will be enough buyers willing to bid $50 per unit.

February 12, 2023
4:57 am
savemoresaveoften
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Norman1 said
The fact sheet says there is no CDIC coverage:

Although the ETF primarily invests in bank deposit accounts, it is not covered by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government deposit insurer.

It is an exchange-traded fund and not transacted through the mutual fund system like the ISA's. So, there are trading commissions except through one of the zero-trading-commission brokers.

Also, there's no guarantee that one will get $50 when one tries to sell. One hopes that there will be enough buyers willing to bid $50 per unit.  

It should be worth at least NAV, and there should be market maker assigned to make it happen. Of course if one tries to unload a huge amount immediately, that may be an issue.

February 12, 2023
7:41 am
Norman1
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NAV does not support the price unless there is some way to require the ETF to redeem the units at NAV like an open-ended mutual fund is required to.

Market makers are there to facilitate trades, not to support the price. Many closed-end funds trade at discount to NAV for long periods of time.

February 12, 2023
7:53 am
AltaRed
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Norman1 said
NAV does not support the price unless there is some way to require the ETF to redeem the units at NAV like an open-ended mutual fund is required to.

Market makers are there to facilitate trades, not to support the price. Many closed-end funds trade at discount to NAV for long periods of time.  

ETF market makers who create and destroy ETF units for the marketplace (for most ETFs) do end up supporting price indirectly though with significant lots on both sides with normally a few cents spread at/near NAV. Where the market maker is becomes fairly obvious in real time Level 2 quotes. I watch that data carefully for ETFs of interest before making trades. Further each ETF provider shows NAV at (or shortly after) the close of each trading day so that the investor can see the spread.

Additionally, the higher the unit price is, the less effect the spread has. A 1-2 cent spread on a $100 unit is less than the same 1-2 cent spread on a $20 unit. The Cash ETFs are, I think for the most part, based on $50 units which is not a bad compromise for spread inefficiencies.

The process does not work that well though in major daily market moves where market price and NAV can separate substantially due to inability to match market demand. It can also go off the rails if NAVs of underlying securities are 'unavailable' as happened in March 2020 especially with corporate bond ETFs where corporate bond pricing 'left the building' for days.

February 12, 2023
11:20 am
savemoresaveoften
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Norman1 said
NAV does not support the price unless there is some way to require the ETF to redeem the units at NAV like an open-ended mutual fund is required to.

Market makers are there to facilitate trades, not to support the price. Many closed-end funds trade at discount to NAV for long periods of time.  

The discussion was cash etf which is 100% cash deposit at different FIs. So Yes the NAV supports the price 100%. There is never a case when a cash etf falls more than 1-2 cents below its NAV.
A few money market broker the buck during the financial crisis due to the concern of systematic failure. Those are also MM instruments and not cash deposit either.
Market makers are required to provide a reasonable bid/offer to be qualified to be a market maker. A $49 bid for a $50 NAV is not reasonable nor provides liquidity. $49.95 bid does.

February 12, 2023
2:56 pm
Doug
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Norman1 said
The fact sheet says there is no CDIC coverage:

Although the ETF primarily invests in bank deposit accounts, it is not covered by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government deposit insurer.

It is an exchange-traded fund and not transacted through the mutual fund system like the ISA's. So, there are trading commissions except through one of the zero-trading-commission brokers.

Also, there's no guarantee that one will get $50 when one tries to sell. One hopes that there will be enough buyers willing to bid $50 per unit.  

Technically, there is some CDIC insurance coverage, but it's limited to $100,000 per issuer the ETF holds, which isn't that much. That being said, they typically don't hold savings accounts outside of the Big 5 or Big 6, and there's never been a Big 6 bank failure in Canada. The largest bank failure in Canadian history, interestingly, was a provincially-owned bank sf-cool, and even that required no CDIC funds and all depositors did not lose anything as the acquiring bank simply assumed all the deposits and mortgages. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

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