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Tangerine Retention Rates Q4 (Oct 4) 2017
September 26, 2017
5:37 pm
3oakwest
Ontario, Canada
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I just called in and was given the 2.5% to Dec. 24, 2017. My experience is that you do not get the best rate in all the quarters. I've had 2 out of the first three with the best interest rate. At that rate, I figure I would not get a good offer for the last quarter. I think it was the second quarter that the offered only 1.6% if you didn't get the high offer.
Anyway, I took the bird in the hand offer.

September 27, 2017
1:14 am
DavidAlta13
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Rick said
You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?  

Rick, you may be dating yourself. Not all the younger folks will know you are quoting Clint Eastwood from 1971’s Dirty Harry.

September 27, 2017
2:02 am
DavidAlta13
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GoHabs said
I’m curious what do some of you give for the reason you’re moving your money?  

Great handle, GoHabs. Many would say they can get 2.3% at EQ Bank (or whichever competitors' rate is the highest at the time).
Perhaps Tang's been making phone offers of 2.5% as it's just high enough to keep the deposits. With their variable mortgage rates at 2.9%, that 0.4% interest rate spread (lending rate - deposit rate) probably just covers their costs & leaves no profit, which is why they cannot offer to pay 2.5% on all Savings deposits. I have no idea how they can afford to offer more than the 2.9% they receive in variable rate mortgage interest.
EQ Bank's 1 yr fixed mtge rate is 3.09%, just 0.79% more than the 2.3% paid on savings deposits.
For context, Canadian banks' average interest rate spreads ranged between about 2.75% and 4.25% from 1980-2008, dropped to 2.3% after the 2008 financial crisis and have since crept up to 2.6%, still about 1% lower than the longer term average.

September 27, 2017
4:01 pm
Loonie
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The 25K transfer restriction only applies to external transfers.
Spouse had no trouble transferring to chequing online - and the computer doesn't ask you why or make counteroffers!

September 27, 2017
5:49 pm
MG
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After reading that threeoakwest called in and got 2.5%, I called today and got the same offer. I was only getting 2% with an expiry date of October 9th. Because my offer end dates did not line up with Tangerine's quarterly roulette wheel offers, I never got an email offer all year. My new offer ends December 25th and that should give me ample time to move everything out to chequing so that I hopefully get an email offer come the new year. I am quite satisfied with my 2.5%. Best of luck to all! sf-smile

September 28, 2017
1:40 am
howiemandel
Canada
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and the experiment continues... i was on the 2.4% retention deal expiring Oct 3rd (all amounts up to 500k) Yesterday, called Tang, on hold for 12 min, asked the CSR to clear out my account and move the balance to my local FI. CSR asked me why?, i explained i needed the funds for a potential investment opportunity. No further questions, said up to 3 business days it will take. We wait and see what the wheel of fortune has for me....

September 28, 2017
5:13 am
AlainJF
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Loonie said
The 25K transfer restriction only applies to external transfers.
Spouse had no trouble transferring to chequing online - and the computer doesn't ask you why or make counteroffers!  

Question: Once you have the money in your chequing account, can you then simply make yourself a "big cheque" and make the deposit at any FI ? This would bypass the limit that many people talk about. (any restrictions I don't see ? something in my blind spot ?)

September 28, 2017
5:17 am
AlainJF
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MG said
... I was only getting 2% with an expiry date of October 9th. Because my offer end dates did not line up with Tangerine's quarterly roulette wheel offers, I never got an email offer all year...  

I am in the same situation (October 9th). It there anyone who received offers after such a date in the new quarter ?

September 28, 2017
7:08 am
GR
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Transfers out initiated on-line have a limit of $25,000 per day. If you phone them, they will transfer out larger amounts.

September 28, 2017
8:16 am
Winnie
Ontario
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AlainJF said

Question: Once you have the money in your chequing account, can you then simply make yourself a "big cheque" and make the deposit at any FI ? This would bypass the limit that many people talk about. (any restrictions I don't see ? something in my blind spot ?)  

No restrictions at all for a "big cheque" from chequing account and no need to call Tangerine CSR also. You can write a "big cheque" for any amount available in your chequing account.

September 28, 2017
1:54 pm
theodor
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Hello all, phoned Tangerine to request a retention rate and was offered 1.6% which I declined. I then requested a balance transfer and they immediately obliged and transferred all funds in my account, my wife's account as well as our joint account. My question, is there any point keeping the funds available should I get an offer or is this a situation where we won't hear from Tangerine anymore?

Thanks

September 28, 2017
2:11 pm
tcharger67
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they wont budge very much.
I moved 248,000 to duca today. the best tangerine could offer was 2.4%. the 2.75% offered by duca is just to far at this point in time.
im guessing either tangerines deposits are high enough to cover their outgoing loans and mortgages, or their profits between 2.4 and 2.75 are making the loans too high risk given their low low borrowing rates.
my guess is the latter

September 28, 2017
2:21 pm
DavidAlta13
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theodor said
Hello all, phoned Tangerine to request a retention rate and was offered 1.6% which I declined. I then requested a balance transfer and they immediately obliged and transferred all funds in my account, my wife's account as well as our joint account. My question, is there any point keeping the funds available should I get an offer or is this a situation where we won't hear from Tangerine anymore?

Thanks  

The only way to find out for sure is to wait until Oct 5/6 and see if Tang makes you a better offer.

In the past, these offers were effective the 5th. Last Jul, the note showed up on my online Savings account page (Not on the first "My Accounts" one) on the 5th but I didn't get the email until the 6th.

September 28, 2017
3:43 pm
theodor
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tcharger67 said
they wont budge very much.
I moved 248,000 to duca today. the best tangerine could offer was 2.4%. the 2.75% offered by duca is just to far at this point in time.
im guessing either tangerines deposits are high enough to cover their outgoing loans and mortgages, or their profits between 2.4 and 2.75 are making the loans too high risk given their low low borrowing rates.
my guess is the latter  

I had never heard of duca before and I am absolutely astonished at their offer of 2.75%. As an octogenarian I am just too afraid to risk our savings on anything that is not CDIC insured. I think I saw somewhere where you can get a first mortgage for 2.69% and it just makes no sense that a Credit Union would pay a higher rate of interest than what one's borrowing cost might be? Don't know much about these matters and really appreciate all your replies and the chance to learn so much.

Thanks all!

September 28, 2017
4:31 pm
bpwest
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Well, do I feel lucky??

Seems a few are taking the 'bird in the hand', if they were offered a 2.5% retention rate...I am in a gambling mood, I guess, and will be moving monies out. I have PC Financial to fall back on, for a month, and then my HISA to fall back following that, should Tangerine not grace me with a bonus offer.

I am still inclined to move money away from Tangerine entirely, leading up to the expected Oct 5 bonus offer date, instead of 'parking' it in my Tang chequing...somewhat of a hassle, but that's how I roll...

Best wishes to all sf-winksf-wink

September 28, 2017
5:42 pm
2of3aintbad
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I am going to use my usual strategy - all family members transfer to chequing tomorrow the 29th. One will transfer out (to PCF this time), two will stay in chequing until the offer date and see what happens. Lots of bills to pay early in October, so will see who gets an offer.

September 28, 2017
7:52 pm
DavidAlta13
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tcharger67 said
they wont budge very much.
I moved 248,000 to duca today. the best tangerine could offer was 2.4%. the 2.75% offered by duca is just to far at this point in time.
im guessing either tangerines deposits are high enough to cover their outgoing loans and mortgages, or their profits between 2.4 and 2.75 are making the loans too high risk given their low low borrowing rates.
my guess is the latter  

Credits unions in the 4 western prov's have unlimited deposit insurance provided by their respective provincially backed insurance corporations. Since they are smaller and largely lending their own members' money, they tend to be pretty sure the folks getting the mortgages will be able to repay, so it's unlikely any will ever get in serious trouble and need to rely on the insurance. For reference, after the 2008 financial crisis, Canadian chartered banks' average mortgage default rates (pmts 3 mo.'s or more behind) went from 0.23% to a mere 0.5%.

For those interested in DUCA's deposit insurance & rate promo:

Deposits at DUCA are insured by the Deposit Insurance Corporation of Ontario in two categories, one with unlimited insurance and one capped at $100,000:
There is No upper limit on registered plans.
Non-registered deposits (as in chequing, savings or terms/GIC's) are insured up to $100,000.

DUCA's 2.75% promo on new deposits ends Dec 14, reverting to their posted high interest savings rate - 1.40% today.
DUCA's 1 year fixed mortgage rates are 3.44% (closed) & 5.85% (open), so they make sense even paying 2.75% for about 4 months.

If someone had $248,000 earning 2.40% Sep 28 - Dec 31, they'd receive $1,564.78. If they withdrew the $248,000 on Sep 28 and stopped getting the 2.4% to get DUCA's 2.75% / 1.40%, how much they'd get depends on whether the deposit arrived at DUCA on Fri Sep 29 ($1,600.45, +35.67) or on Mon Oct 3 ($1,544.39, -20.38).
Whether they'd gain or lose by going to DUCA depends first on how fast the money is transferred, and next on whether rates have changed by Dec 15.

September 28, 2017
7:57 pm
DavidAlta13
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Somehow I missed Tang's last posted Savings rate increase on Sep 20, going from 0.9% to 1.0%. As that's now 0.2% higher than the end of Jun, my hopes that our offers will be correspondingly higher have gone up.

September 28, 2017
10:29 pm
Loonie
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theodor said

I had never heard of duca before and I am absolutely astonished at their offer of 2.75%. As an octogenarian I am just too afraid to risk our savings on anything that is not CDIC insured. I think I saw somewhere where you can get a first mortgage for 2.69% and it just makes no sense that a Credit Union would pay a higher rate of interest than what one's borrowing cost might be? Don't know much about these matters and really appreciate all your replies and the chance to learn so much.

Thanks all!  

There are a number of FIs ("financial institutions") that are offering mortgage rates lower than their deposit rates. This has been going on for quite a while from what I have seen. During the current quarter, Tangerine offered many of us savings rates of 3.1%

Some feel that DICO (credit union insurance system in Ontario) may not be as good as CDIC because it has no government back-up. But, when push comes to shove, there is going to be a limit on what CDIC may provide too if the financial catastrophe is large enough. No source can afford to bail out everything.

All of these FIs have a number of ways of making money, not the least of which are credit cards with usurious interest rates, car loans which are always significantly higher than mortgage rates, and investment accounts.

DUCA will cut off this promo when it has reached its target of deposits, whatever that may be. You may be sure that they have a target! They do this with all their promos as far as I can see.

Their real purpose with these promos is likely simply to get new members. Once people deposit the money, some will forget that the good rate expired. Others will notice but won't know where to find a better rate or won't get around to moving the money. There will be a net gain to DUCA in terms of members and their dollars, so, for them, it's a fairly cheap source of productive advertising.

Accordingly, I don't see any significant risk, and think the difference between DICO and CDIC for practical purposes at this time is negligible - especially as you are looking at less than 3 months. And, as longer-term forum members will tell you, I am very conservative.

That's my personal opinion. You have to do what you're comfortable with. There are no absolute answers.

September 29, 2017
7:24 am
theodor
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thank you all for explaining some of the in's and out's of online banking and associated risk's and rewards. Much appreciated!

Theodor

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