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Good news keep coming: Bitcoin plunges below $24,000
June 14, 2022
9:44 am
COIN
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I'm glad I invested my money in shares of the Royal Bank. The shares appreciate in value over any reasonable time frame and I enjoy regular dividends with regular increases.

June 14, 2022
10:10 am
cgouimet
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COIN said
I'm glad I invested my money in shares of the Royal Bank. The shares appreciate in value over any reasonable time frame and I enjoy regular dividends with regular increases.  

Very good. So, does this RBC investor also have RBC Savings and GIC'S?

CGO
June 14, 2022
1:02 pm
mordko
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AltaRed said

The difference is it is a physical material used in a vast array of products which have value themselves. Same thing applies to any precious metal, or base metal for that matter.  

Use of gold in the industry is very limited and does not define the price. The price is largely driven by constrained supply, interest rates, perceived function as a hedge against inflation, etc. The kinds of things which in theory impact the price of Bitcoin. The main difference is that use of gold to preserve value has a long history. Although the role changed significantly as we moved to Fiat currencies. And Bitcoin is far more volatile so its ability to hedge against inflation is questionable. I don’t hold either exactly because they have costs and zero earnings but similarities are clear.

June 14, 2022
1:34 pm
savemoresaveoften
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@altared
Get ur facts straight re bitcoin first:

Owning bitcoin does not have to incur any cost at well. You can have it on an old hardrive on a computer, sitting in your basement and not plug in to neither the internet nor the wall outlet.

On the other hand, anyone that holds physical gold in a bank vault somewhere pays rent every year, and that’s a real holding cost.

If the value of gold is truly determine by its actual physical use (exclude jeweleries) in products and not by its ‘rarity’ and society belief of its value, gold is worth less than a dozen of eggs.

June 14, 2022
1:58 pm
cgouimet
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One thing for sure... No Bitcoin HISA or GIC tracked on this site ...

CGO
June 14, 2022
2:19 pm
Bill
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I think industrial use of gold might be 10%, the rest is bullion and jewelry.

Gambling is a worldwide growth industry, to me Bitcoin's just a bet like a sports bet, etc. Let the gamblers gamble, no big deal.

June 14, 2022
8:32 pm
kelbee
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Owning Bitcoin might not cost you money, but the miners have to incentivized to stick around until you do choose to eventually make a transaction.

That is where some big externalities regarding energy and e-waste come into play.

June 15, 2022
6:17 am
AllanB
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savemoresaveoften said

Owning bitcoin does not have to incur any cost at well. You can have it on an old hardrive on a computer, sitting in your basement and not plug in to neither the internet nor the wall outlet.

On the other hand, anyone that holds physical gold in a bank vault somewhere pays rent every year, and that’s a real holding cost.

If the value of gold is truly determine by its actual physical use (exclude jeweleries) in products and not by its ‘rarity’ and society belief of its value, gold is worth less than a dozen of eggs.  

You sound desperate.

At least gold has use.

June 15, 2022
6:53 am
Alexandre
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Don’t count Bill Gates among the fans of cryptocurrencies and NFTs.

Those digital asset trends are “100% based on greater fool theory,” he said at a TechCrunch conference, referencing the notion that investors can make money on worthless or overvalued assets as long as people are willing to bid them higher.

Someone should teach this 66 years old a thing or two about computers in general and blockchain in particular. What did this guy Bill do for living before he retired?

“I do think people get bought into these manias, who may not have as much money to spare,” Gates said.

... and that, boys and girls, is the saddest part of the story. As much as I despise shams like bitcoin, and do not feel sorry for people promoting them, at the end there are victims who thought they are an investor in magical type of an eternally appreciating asset that is the future of computing and finance.

In other news:

New blockchain concept, dubbed ‘E-Stablecoin’, could allow electricity to be transmitted between users who are spread around the world, without the need for interconnecting wires or a grid-based transmission system.

A connection between energy and information allows for the creation of a cryptocurrency token that is directly backed by and convertible into one kilowatt-hour of electricity. While it requires the input of one kilowatt-hour of electricity to mint an E-Stablecoin token, that digital token can later be destroyed to extract back out one kilowatt-hour of usable electricity.

When it gets to that level of absurdity, it should mean the end of mania is near.

June 15, 2022
7:06 am
savemoresaveoften
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AllanB said
You sound desperate.

At least gold has use.  

Envy someone who has more knowledge than u ?
Try by opening ur eyes and mind first.

June 15, 2022
7:31 am
AllanB
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This whole crypto mining thing is phoney baloney to make it seem based on something. The term "mining" gives it hard asset cache. The baloney it exerts more energy than niagara falls when in reality it's probably just market manipulation on anyone's personal computer. Sure if you have millions of people trading it's going to require energy for them to be online using electricity same as using computers to trade stocks or using amazon to buy stuff. More likely crypto mining is their form of market making to keep the scheme going. China threw them out when they figured out it was a scam maybe to undermine the communist party, another reason bitcoin quotes are widely circulated daily in the mainstream media to give it legitimacy.

June 15, 2022
9:03 am
lifeonanisland
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AllanB said
This whole crypto mining thing is phoney baloney to make it seem based on something. The term "mining" gives it hard asset cache. The baloney it exerts more energy than niagara falls when in reality it's probably just market manipulation on anyone's personal computer. Sure if you have millions of people trading it's going to require energy for them to be online using electricity same as using computers to trade stocks or using amazon to buy stuff. More likely crypto mining is their form of market making to keep the scheme going. China threw them out when they figured out it was a scam maybe to undermine the communist party, another reason bitcoin quotes are widely circulated daily in the mainstream media to give it legitimacy.  

Yes...totally agree with this. Insanely good marketing, coupled with a gullible "fan base", have created this monster. An acceptance by the mainstream media to publish quotes and crypto news hasn't helped. I also agree with Alexandre...no sympathy for the scammers behind it who are losing their shirts, but sympathies for younger people who have bought into this for no other reason that the only reality they have ever known is that, "Everything always goes up." When you've got the likes of Matt Damon telling you that "fortune favours the brave," it's easy to see why so many have been swayed. While I understand the rise and fall of crypto, what I don't understand is how more governments didn't shut this down as soon as it appeared.

June 15, 2022
9:32 am
MattS
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Crypto was a good buy alright.. A Good Bye to your money!!!!

June 15, 2022
9:52 am
Bill
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If you look at Bitcoin price history since 2010 you can see it's possible a lot of people made millions off it, e.g. 3000% increase from 2010 to 2013 or so. Just like Bre-X, Nortel, etc, a bunch of people made big dough and sold some or all. Looking only at those who have lost money in the last year is just recency bias, selective sample, wrong analysis to just consider those holding the bag at the end. Even at $24K Bitcoin is still WAY higher than it's been for most of its life, those who bought at 9 cents are still feeling fine, I think.

I've never owned crypto but have owned speculative stocks some of which I sold after a nice ride and never looked at them again, though I know some went to much higher levels. In my view speculative stuff is just a bet so if you win the bet you get out, move on to the next bet . Staying long term in one speculative instrument makes no sense to me, have to control your greed. Blue chippers or gics for risk averse is for long term, in my opinion.

June 15, 2022
10:35 am
lifeonanisland
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Bill said
If you look at Bitcoin price history since 2010 you can see it's possible a lot of people made millions off it, e.g. 3000% increase from 2010 to 2013 or so. Just like Bre-X, Nortel, etc, a bunch of people made big dough and sold some or all. Looking only at those who have lost money in the last year is just recency bias, selective sample, wrong analysis to just consider those holding the bag at the end. Even at $24K Bitcoin is still WAY higher than it's been for most of its life, those who bought at 9 cents are still feeling fine, I think.

I've never owned crypto but have owned speculative stocks some of which I sold after a nice ride and never looked at them again, though I know some went to much higher levels. In my view speculative stuff is just a bet so if you win the bet you get out, move on to the next bet . Staying long term in one speculative instrument makes no sense to me, have to control your greed. Blue chippers or gics for risk averse is for long term, in my opinion.  

Recency bias? What BS. You're attempting to legitimize crypto by suggesting it's just another high risk asset. Of course the early adoptees made money...that's how any ponzi scheme works. What about the people and families who have been caught up in the hype, zealous speculation, and "look in the other direction" of governments who are supposed to prevent this from happening? I know some of them. Teetering on insolvency. At least you've suggested it's betting -- but that's the point: it should have been forced to market itself as betting, not as as some kind of legitimate investment.

June 15, 2022
11:00 am
AllanB
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I'm wondering if regulated FIs who participated could be a class action target.

June 15, 2022
11:27 am
savemoresaveoften
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lifeonanisland said

Recency bias? What BS. You're attempting to legitimize crypto by suggesting it's just another high risk asset. Of course the early adoptees made money...that's how any ponzi scheme works. What about the people and families who have been caught up in the hype, zealous speculation, and "look in the other direction" of governments who are supposed to prevent this from happening? I know some of them. Teetering on insolvency. At least you've suggested it's betting -- but that's the point: it should have been forced to market itself as betting, not as as some kind of legitimate investment.  

Anyone that lose money cuz they got caught up in the hype is called “greed”. I don’t feel sorry for them whether it’s a penny gold stock or bitcoin. Can’t hide behind ‘I am dumb, they scam me’… Be a grown up and take responsibility of one’s action / decision is my advice to them.

June 15, 2022
12:53 pm
mordko
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Given this topic was started on June 13th, “Recency bias” seems like a reasonable point to make. That is unless we have similar topics from a year and 2 years ago.

Whether Bitcoin lasts in its current form or not, by definition it is not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes have initiating firms incurring benefits from every transaction and doing marketing throughout by promising fixed returns (eg 50% in 40 days). Nobody promised fixed returns if you buy Bitcoin. Buyers knew there was risk. Its a vital bit of info which makes all the difference.

June 15, 2022
1:09 pm
savemoresaveoften
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mordko said
Given this topic was started on June 13th, “Recency bias” seems like a reasonable point to make. That is unless we have similar topics from a year and 2 years ago.

Whether Bitcoin lasts in its current form or not, by definition it is not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes have initiating firms incurring benefits from every transaction and doing marketing throughout by promising fixed returns (eg 50% in 40 days). Nobody promised fixed returns if you buy Bitcoin. Buyers knew there was risk. Its a vital bit of info which makes all the difference.  

Exactly, Yet some just keep describing it as a Ponzi scheme, and went as far as labeling non dividend paying stock to be a Ponzi scheme as well. It’s this type of misinformation that makes the internet dangerous…

June 15, 2022
1:16 pm
Bill
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Sorry, lifeonanisland, I've zero belief in your victimhood bs, let them not just teeter but fully collapse into insolvency if they bought crypto instead of safeguarding their family's finances, their utility is in providing a reminder to the rest of us to stay on the straight and narrow with money we need.

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