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Good news keep coming: Bitcoin plunges below $24,000
June 13, 2022
7:53 pm
lifeonanisland
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savemoresaveoften said

You may want to public warn all all financial institutions cuz they are all looking at leveraging blockchain as the future of banking and information security. That you are smarter than them all and see thru what they don’t….

Or you can start by reading what a blockchain is…  

Hah. I won't deny there is a role for blockchain as a digital record keeping system or shared database. There is value in that. But...what don't you understand? For bitcoin or other crypto, it's a great record keeping system...for nothing. Or as Charlie Munger put it so eloquently, turds.

June 13, 2022
7:54 pm
kelbee
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What blockchain is? Might not be anything that special and not appropriate for a currency or foundation of DeFi.

Letter in Support of Responsible Fintech Policy

Standford lecture

UCal Berkeley course, see lecture 12

Taleb's Bitcoin Black Paper

June 13, 2022
8:05 pm
lifeonanisland
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kelbee said
What blockchain is? Might not be anything that special and not appropriate for a currency or foundation of DeFi.

Letter in Support of Responsible Fintech Policy

Standford lecture

UCal Berkeley course, see lecture 12

Taleb's Bitcoin Black Paper  

Or, as Kelbee suggests, blockchains are useless (interesting reading). All I know is that, useless or useful for something, when it comes to bitcoin, playing the blockchain card is meaningless. Crypto is pure speculation, betting on air, whatever you want to call it. See you at the bottom.

June 13, 2022
8:53 pm
AR
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The whole blockchain saga is all about recording every detail of everything material of what you do so that you will never escape taxes and those taxes being whatever taxes government deems necessary you pay. You must be controlled because Out Of Control big government says so.

You will own nothing and you will be happy or, another way of saying it is, you will afford nothing and you will not complain. You ain't seen nothin' yet.

Also, sorry for interrupting this forum as the last comment I made I was told to feel free to carry on on another forum. He could have just locked the thread but no Peter makes mistakes(?) just like the rest of us.

Sorry fwiw.

June 14, 2022
2:57 am
savemoresaveoften
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lifeonanisland said

Or, as Kelbee suggests, blockchains are useless (interesting reading). All I know is that, useless or useful for something, when it comes to bitcoin, playing the blockchain card is meaningless. Crypto is pure speculation, betting on air, whatever you want to call it. See you at the bottom.  

The fundamental value of bitcoin is that it’s a alternative asset class. Not saying it should be worth $200 or $20k. Yes it is virtual that you can’t touch or feel, but I also never receive physical cert for my stocks, and even if I do, it’s a piece of paper.
Regarding hard paper currency has a real value cuz it’s printed by a government, that’s also just a false belief of its value. Only a handful of countries (US, Canada, China, UAE, Russia) actually has some hard asset that put a liquidation value on the currency it prints. Otherwise it’s a piece of paper, Monopoly money. Yet most think it’s worth something cuz they ‘believe’ in its value. Same goes for bitcoin investors.

Again not arguing what bitcoin should be worth. I knew about bitcoin back when it was only $100, so a little earlier than when main stream people know what it is. However I never invest in it cuz I prefer something more ‘solid’ like most of you, but it’s not a Ponzi scheme in my mind either. Most government don’t think it is either or it would haven been shut down years ago.

June 14, 2022
5:59 am
mordko
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AltaRed said
Ultimately, cryto has to go to zero. It does not have earnings from products and services sold to others but incurs daily operating costs, e.g. mining.

How can anyone not understand ongoing permanent negative cash flow has to end with many investors holding on to the deck chairs on the Titanic? The "run on the bank" is only in its early stages.  

You can say the same about gold. If you own it, you incur cost and have zero earnings. Perhaps its moving to zero, but sure is taking its sweet time.

June 14, 2022
6:08 am
mordko
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Alexandre said

As for companies offering shares with no dividend, they are, indeed, same type of Ponzi scheme. The only profit from common stock shares not paying dividend is selling it at premium to the next investor. Company explicitly and honestly states that it will not distribute profits of its business activities with shareholders.
The true price of such share is liquidation price, which is often zero.

The liquidation price of bitcoin is zero. With absolute certainty. There is nothing behind bitcoin, but waste of electricity and computing power.  

1. The first claim is false. A Ponzi scheme is a fraud with fraudsters selling assets which have no earnings. Companies that have earnings may decide to pay dividends or reinvest. That does not make them a fraud, they do so openly. Also, fraudsters claim that returns are guaranteed and there is no risk. People buying shares are informed there is inherent risk and returns are not guaranteed.

2. Things claimed with “absolute certainty” are rarely “absolutely certain”.

June 14, 2022
7:42 am
AltaRed
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mordko said

You can say the same about gold. If you own it, you incur cost and have zero earnings. Perhaps its moving to zero, but sure is taking its sweet time.  

The difference is it is a physical material used in a vast array of products which have value themselves. Same thing applies to any precious metal, or base metal for that matter.

June 14, 2022
7:45 am
cgouimet
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One advantage to a dropping Bitcoin ... Poilievre goes into hiding ...

CGO
June 14, 2022
7:54 am
AR
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cgouimet said
One advantage to a dropping Bitcoin ... Poilievre goes into hiding ...  

Prove it.

June 14, 2022
7:57 am
cgouimet
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AR said

Prove it.  

He has been very quiet since Bitcoin started moving South. Could also be because of declining values on his real estate holdings ...

CGO
June 14, 2022
7:59 am
Alexandre
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savemoresaveoften said
There are way more companies on any stock exchange around the world that do NOT pay a dividend than those that does. So per you, they are all run by crooks like Madoff and are ponzi scheme…

Yes, very much. If you do not agree, please tell me what is the fair price of TSLA and of Bitcoin, and how you calculated it.
If price is "as much as next guy willing to pay for it," you just found where profits come for TSLA shareholders and bitcoin holders and it is not from any legitimate business activity.

Companies that have earnings may decide to pay dividends or reinvest. That does not make them a fraud, they do so openly. People buying shares are informed there is inherent risk and returns are not guaranteed.

Imagine your friend Peter gives money to Terry, with the following conditions: Terry is not obligated to pay anything back. Terry might decide to pay interest on the loan if he is so pleased, but not any time soon for sure. If ever.
Peter can resell an IOU drafted by Terry to anyone, at any price he could fetch, but next IOU owner will have the same expectations from Terry as Peter.

You would probably call Peter a gullible person, and perhaps one with too much money on his hands.
You most likely would not be interested in buying Terry's IOU from Peter, at any price. Even if you've learned Terry is doing very well financially and about to invest his money in extension of his profitable business.

Replace Terry by Tesla, and suddenly Peter is respectable investor and you might consider adding Tesla shares to your portfolio.

This is very nice trick the Wall Street pulled ages ago. The best before bitcoin.

June 14, 2022
8:02 am
AR
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cgouimet said

He has been very quiet since Bitcoin started moving South. Could also be because of declining values on his real estate holdings ...  

Or could be he is too busy building Empires, Empires which others have sought to destroy for their own grandisement?

You state conjecture. Prove it.

June 14, 2022
8:07 am
cgouimet
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AR said

Or could be he is too busy building Empires, Empires which others have sought to destroy for their own grandisement?

You state conjecture. Prove it.  

Perhaps you like Poilievre Kool-Aid. I don't.

As François Legault would say ... that's it, that's all ...

CGO
June 14, 2022
8:20 am
AR
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Pardon me. Is it not Poilievre that wants everything back to normal and Legault is pushing the vaccine kool-aid? Is this not correct interpretation of the facts?
Moderator, thread off topic.
I am no longer responding off topic.

June 14, 2022
8:25 am
lifeonanisland
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AR said
Pardon me. Is it not Poilievre that wants everything back to normal and Legault is pushing the vaccine kool-aid? Is this not correct interpretation of the facts?
Moderator, thread off topic.
I am no longer responding off topic.  

Vaccine kool-aid. Oh my. One of those, are we?

June 14, 2022
8:28 am
cgouimet
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lifeonanisland said

Vaccine kool-aid. Oh my. One of those, are we?  

AR is passionate ...

I have no idea where the vaccine tangent was about as my Legault "that's it, that's all" reference was just a quote of what he says when that's all he has to say on a topic.

Oh well ...

CGO
June 14, 2022
8:33 am
AllanB
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Why did all the business media outlets like Globeinvestor and Cnbc legitimize Bitcoin by running its ticker next to the Tsx and Dow Jones.

Blockchain is a stock promotion like cloud, it's a new way of organizing what's out there already wrapped in a blanket of confusion to fool investors. Your personal computer, phone, ipad is cloud anything that stores digital data is a cloud server. The difference is big tech and its partner government wants to control everyone's data so they've given license to them to set up massive data centres filled with thousands of personal computer equivalents. Blockchain is another way of organizing data with a stronger lock to lock you out of your money haha

June 14, 2022
8:46 am
Alexandre
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Meanwhile, somewhere in alternative reality.

Bitcoin could rally by around 732% from current levels to reach $250,000, according to a report by business publication Barron’s.
Bitcoin has limited supply; the supply is visible. And it’s very hard, almost impossible, to change that.

I had conversation with someone, who promoted bitcoin with that same logic of limited supply. I told that person the poop he produces has limited quantity and is uniquely identifiable by DNA test. I asked why that same bitcoin logic of asset appreciation due to scarcity seem not apply to an asset coming from his ass.

June 14, 2022
8:52 am
lifeonanisland
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Alexandre said
Meanwhile, somewhere in alternative reality.

Bitcoin could rally by around 732% from current levels to reach $250,000, according to a report by business publication Barron’s.
Bitcoin has limited supply; the supply is visible. And it’s very hard, almost impossible, to change that.

I had conversation with someone, who promoted bitcoin with that same logic of limited supply. I told that person the poop he produces has limited quantity and is uniquely identifiable by DNA test. I asked why that same bitcoin logic of asset appreciation due to scarcity seem not apply to an asset coming from his ass.  

Laughing out loud.

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