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Pace Securities
December 29, 2020
9:39 am
Dave_1
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holy cow Batman ! Hold the phone. Have you read this ?

James Bradshaw's twitter feed from overnight.

December 29, 2020
10:49 am
Yaftica
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Finally. So it begins. The real unfolding. This is likely on the desks of both the Prov and Fed Finance Ministers now as a briefing if the CU is tossing litigation grenades in their direction. We shall see where the real power comes down the pipes now to enforce a settlement plan. Hopefully the rest of the financial news media picks this up however and it’s a national news story soon. Well written synopsis.

The real motivation for the bank will come when their brand is flushing itself down the toilet as those who prop up the institution financially are quietly walking out as well and someone finally sees that the future of the bank may be at stake. That window to ensure it doesn’t have to happen that way and solidify public trust in the CU will likely be 2021, otherwise if they think they are too big to fail and can threaten the government in this manner they may wish to rethink such a plan.

The government never comes out on the losing side of incompetence, criminality, whatever you want to label it.

December 30, 2020
10:24 am
Dave_1
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If I'm to believe all the reporting in Mr Bradshaw's Dec 28th Globe & Mail article -

    FSRA and your expert hired consultant, & IIROC..... you guys knew in June 2019 there was nefarious activity going on at PACE Securities. YOU KNEW ! You were at the controls ! And didn't stop it !

You guys could have stopped all preferred share purchases in FHH in June 2019. How many millions got invested in June 2019 & later ? How many investor claimants could have dodged this bullet in June 2019, had you guys just done the right thing & pulled the plug ?

I have no idea of the numbers, but my simple minded brain says a $20+M problem is easier to solve than $60+M.

Honest mistake or incompetency ? I'm just shaking my head in wonderment. You might want to ask for a refund from your expert hired consultant at KSV Advisory.

In the meantime, us lowly retail investors go after the other bad actors (Smith father/son duo, Thomson, McRae, Eves, PACE, & other directors) & rightfully so. And FSRA sits on the sidelines smiling & singing the MC Hammer song "U Can't Touch This". or was that "U Can't Touch Us" ?

December 30, 2020
10:46 am
Elaine
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Dave_1 said
If I'm to believe all the reporting in Mr Bradshaw's Dec 28th Globe & Mail article -

    FSRA and your expert hired consultant, & IIROC..... you guys knew in June 2019 there was nefarious activity going on at PACE Securities. YOU KNEW ! You were at the controls ! And didn't stop it !

You guys could have stopped all preferred share purchases in FHH in June 2019. How many millions got invested in June 2019 & later ? How many investor claimants could have dodged this bullet in June 2019, had you guys just done the right thing & pulled the plug ?

I have no idea of the numbers, but my simple minded brain says a $20+M problem is easier to solve than $60+M.

Honest mistake or incompetency ? I'm just shaking my head in wonderment. You might want to ask for a refund from your expert hired consultant at KSV Advisory.

In the meantime, us lowly retail investors go after the other bad actors (Smith father/son duo, Thomson, McRae, Eves, PACE, & other directors) & rightfully so. And FSRA sits on the sidelines smiling & singing the MC Hammer song "U Can't Touch This". or was that "U Can't Touch Us" ?

  

And what gets me ,actually makes me sick is that FSRA did a sworn testimony from me -going through my document-looking at the signatures-I thought they were going to do something.Instead-delay tactics.Why waste my time with them if they are doing what James Bradshaw says they were doing.It's pretty sickening.Me-thinking it was the new CEO being a @#$% while it was FSRA-my superman-that protects me from crap that was the problem.It is pretty stinky.Wonder where Ernie Eves is these days?

December 30, 2020
12:11 pm
Dave_1
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Elaine said
Wonder where Ernie Eves is these days?  

Rumour has it, in the Cayman Islands with Frank Klees. Both in quarantine, resting comfortably on a beach, Pina Colada in hand. Large hockey duffle bags stuffed with $$$, for pillows.

MC Hammer's song playing in the background.

December 31, 2020
8:26 am
i_got_smucked_too
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As 2020 moves into the rear view mirror, does anyone need a reminder of what each of us lost in 2020 due to this disaster ? You decide where you fit on this chart.

                                       2020 Lost Revenue
                                 
            Principal		     PFL	         FHH	
            Invested	               @	           @	
	         		               5%	          7%	
					
             $25,000               $1,250       $1,750	
             $50,000        	  $2,500       $3,500	
           $100,000		  $5,000       $7,000	
           $200,000		$10,000     $14,000	
           $250,000		$12,500     $17,500	
           $500,000		$25,000     $35,000	
	   $750,000		$37,500     $52,500	
	$1,000,000		$50,000     $70,000	

For me, I fall somewhere in the middle. I needed that income to put groceries on the table, pay property taxes, power, phone, etc. My measly CPP & OAP is stretched mighty thin trying to cover these basics. No dollars left for extras.

There are a lot of investors worse off so don't shed a tear for me. Stand up & fight.

If you're a harmed investor claimant & haven't done so already, make sure PRRR has a detailed account of your story.

December 31, 2020
10:25 am
Yaftica
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Thx for that reminder! Said nobody ever. Just kidding but joking aside, I’ve tried to forget about it for the time being but fortunately I’m still working with a F/T income, as you relate there are many who had these investments as a nest egg which serves the point these funds should never have been put into harms way like that by this institution.

Regardless of the likelihood of it all ending up in a mediation meeting their lawyers have to know people will accept nothing less than full restitution especially since that pressure to make such an offer comes under the heavy sledgehammer PRRR is wielding, which ultimately we will each have to pay for out of that same offer.

Anything less and I don’t mind spending the next decade or so dogging the brand through every social media efforts they may make with the facts and the truth behind whatever new corporate mantra is going to be thought up to distance themselves from this debacle.

It’s the least I can do to repay the same customer loyalty if that’s what we receive. I too know precisely how to keep this thread and a website at the top of page 1 with Google over everything else which comes up when people search for Pace Credit Union... which I’m certain they are paying for already to keep the image bleached but I’m also certain my tech is better because that’s what I have access to in my field of development.

That person who represents the media part of the organization and probably still reads this thread to report up the line may wish to speak a little louder in 2021 to those that are controlling the litigation. Add up the costs to the business over the long run not being able to shake this from the tree. There are stories which will no doubt make people puke. Who the hell will want to do business with an institution who permitted such chaos to take place and didn’t take responsibility, account for these losses and as the brand identity promotes, act in a way which a bank does not.

Talking more than customers here, when you have such a dirty brand name known for hanging the vulnerable out to dry, best of luck in attracting the capital necessary to keep the brand worthy of future investments.

Discount that probability or assess that as a risk all you like guys, do some case study research on how those dice came back across the craps table for other organizations. A complete reboot of the brand from the logo on up is generally necessary.

Doesn’t have to happen though. The brand can be front page news in addressing this properly if so chosen. These accountants and actuaries should use their discretionary powers wisely...

December 31, 2020
12:56 pm
Elaine
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Pace securities-I wonder where all the advisers have gone.Hanging out with the finance minister in the Carribean?
Unless they make it right there really is no hope for Pace.
All the stuff that Barb Dirks siad-al that positive stuff-we aren't going anywhere.
Wel
No
They are not going anywhere.
Straight into a black hole is where they are going.
Fix up the mess.
If FSRA is involved in covering this up -happened under their watch-well maybe time for the politicical guys to get involved.
How about a letter writing campaign to Ford?I wonder whether wee need stamps?
Just a sick way to start the new year.Many people suffering because of this.Not only do they need to think of Covid-they also have to think of where the next can of soup is coming from.
Hoping this comes to an end early next year.
Hoping everyone makes it till then

December 31, 2020
2:49 pm
Yaftica
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Yes, let us not forget those people who likely worked against their conscience to sell you these special shares inside the bank branch or otherwise in favour of juicy sales commissions, and those who moved our money into harms way without direction. They know who they are, so do we, and surely they are reading this thread as well while wondering if they can return to the industry in the same capacity.

Expect Us you snakes. It’s obvious you’re buying time to see how it all plays out. Hope you enjoyed those commissions and you can choke on them while working for jokers like these in the interim to explain the gaps in your resume...

https://www.alignedcapitalpartners.com/

Can’t hide forever.

December 31, 2020
3:39 pm
Douglas Thomson
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Exactly! I remember our “advisor” very well. We’ll meet again someday.

December 31, 2020
3:46 pm
Elaine
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Thanks Yaftica
I think I am going to apply to be an advisor.IIROC certified and all.
It will allow me trips to St Barts and meet up with all my buds.They will like me.Iwill be just like them.I can do it.
Might roast in hell for scamming little old ladies out of their money-but as long as I can do St. Barts it is worth it(said no one ever-except for our IIROC certified advisors)

December 31, 2020
4:00 pm
Elaine
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Darn-they won't accept me.They don't like my email address.i guess i am pegged already.happy new year everybody.How bad can it get?

December 31, 2020
4:41 pm
JenE
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Happy New Year Elaine and all other victims of PACE. I really hope that things work out for you all. Hang in there.

December 31, 2020
5:15 pm
Elaine
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JenE said
Happy New Year Elaine and all other victims of PACE. I really hope that things work out for you all. Hang in there.  

Happy New Year to you JenE
I prefer to think of myself as a survivor of Pace.
They ravaged my savings for my disabled son.Pace will pay- one way or another.Whether it is me standing in front of their credit unions begging until I get 100 grand in change or whether it is more civil-it is up to Pace and their buddy FSRA Anyone who tries to justify these monsters probably is a monster themselves.

December 31, 2020
8:40 pm
bpcpa
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I have been following this outrageous and tragic case since August when a new client asked me to help him understand his PSC statements. As an accountant and advisor myself, most days I curse the amount of compliance and oversight required for me to help clients. However, in the last year I have come up against 3 cases where there wasn't obviously enough compliance and oversight and it's depressing-this case is quite egregious. Which is why it's so surprising that there is not more media attention-outside of James Bradshaw who I am grateful is continues to cover and unearth new facts. I can't help but think that the more media attention-the more motivation for Pace to rectify. I have spoken with a few reporters and it's been suggested we need more personal stories about how this situation has significantly impacted your current situation. I am sure that your name doesn't have to be appear in print but if any of you are willing to have conversations with reporters I would appreciate hearing from you and then I can help connect you. Just a thought for the New Year which I hope will be better and brighter for all of you

January 1, 2021
12:10 pm
Norman1
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bpcpa said
I have been following this outrageous and tragic case since August when a new client asked me to help him understand his PSC statements. ….

…Which is why it's so surprising that there is not more media attention-outside of James Bradshaw who I am grateful is continues to cover and unearth new facts. I can't help but think that the more media attention-the more motivation for Pace to rectify. I have spoken with a few reporters and it's been suggested we need more personal stories about how this situation has significantly impacted your current situation. …

I don't think more PR is needed. More sad stories is not going to help the case legally.

Parts of the Bradshaw's December 28 Globe & Mail story Agencies battle over who dropped the ball… are doubtful.

Regulators are responsible to the general public and do not have a private duty or responsibility to investors. That makes them legally immune to negligence claims from individual investors.

Eron Mortgage investors tested that years ago against the BC regulator of mortgage brokers. The investors lost both in the Court of Appeal in BC and in the Supreme Court of Canada: Globe & Mail (Nov. 17, 2001): Court rules regulator not liable in Eron case. The case is Cooper v. Hobart, 2001 SCC 79.

So, it is unlikely that former PACE Credit Union CEO Barbara Dirks would ask FSRA to ask FSRA's insurers to pony up some money for FSRA's "liability" in the fiasco. She, her lawyers, and the insurance company lawyers know about regulator immunity and that when the insured, FSRA, is immune, there is no legal basis for a claim.

It is more likely the former CEO could not find the funding from the insurance companies for the settlement she wanted. At the same time, FSRA likely refused to allow any significant part of the credit union's $52 million of equity/capital to be paid out and cause the credit union to fail.

January 1, 2021
2:03 pm
Bill
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I don't think the focus of many here is only on the legal process. The contention here seems to be that Pace is 100% responsible, that the investors are 0% responsible for their plight, thus the appeal to the court of public opinion, the media, etc. to force Pace, in order to maintain its corporate image and future solvency and prosperity, to cough up fully asap.

January 1, 2021
3:03 pm
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Dave_1 said
holy cow Batman ! Hold the phone. Have you read this ?

James Bradshaw's twitter feed from overnight.

  

This article sums it up quite well, but more PR is certainly needed from other news outlets although the Globe is probably the most respected.

A settlement will be funded from multiple sources.

Insurance will be the primary source and that is why the former directors of PSC and FHH paid up their premiums on their own as the upcoming IIROC hearing may determine wrong doing on their part and although it can’t enforce a financial penalty, it will set a critical legal precedent for PCU and or PRRR to pursue them.

The Credit Union, PCU also has its own insurance but so does FSRA.

In addition to insurance, PCU would not pay a settlement from capital, but would use a combination of insurance, possibly swapping shares and most likely taking a loan from Central One Credit Union which is the central bank for credit unions in Ontario and BC which could be debentured over the next 25-30 years so capital ratios are not at risk.

Is it a coincidence that the new PACE Credit Union CEO is coming in from Central One?

Hopefully they will structure an acceptable settlement but there are several moving pieces here including the IIROC hearing that is scheduled for February.

The best scenario is where PCU settles this and makes affected members whole which will save their tarnished image and save the entire credit union as the public sector union whose members make a large percent of deposits will stay with them. Then PCU can pursue separate legal action against the directors of PSC and FSRA separately after making members whole.

This is in addition to ongoing litigation with the founders, but that’s a whole other debacle.

Thank you to James Bradshaw for the excellent coverage.

Make Us Whole!

January 1, 2021
6:21 pm
Norman1
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member said

Insurance will be the primary source and that is why the former directors of PSC and FHH paid up their premiums on their own as the upcoming IIROC hearing may determine wrong doing on their part and although it can’t enforce a financial penalty, it will set a critical legal precedent for PCU and or PRRR to pursue them.

They are paying the insurance premiums because it is cheaper than paying the lawyer fees the insurance covers.


In addition to insurance, PCU would not pay a settlement from capital, but would use a combination of insurance, possibly swapping shares and most likely taking a loan from Central One Credit Union which is the central bank for credit unions in Ontario and BC which could be debentured over the next 25-30 years so capital ratios are not at risk.

Check your arithmetic. If PACE Credit Union borrows $50 million, pays out the $50 million, and is still on the hook for the $50 million debt, then equity/capital drops by $50 million to just $2 million. Credit union will fail.

Insurance won't pay out when there's no legal liability for the credit union. I'm sure the former CEO spoke with the credit union's insurers. The insurers likely refused thinking their lawyers can defend the credit union successfully in court for a fraction of what was asked for. The insurers don't care if the PACE name gets a bit scorched.

January 1, 2021
6:27 pm
Norman1
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Bill said
I don't think the focus of many here is only on the legal process. The contention here seems to be that Pace is 100% responsible, that the investors are 0% responsible for their plight, thus the appeal to the court of public opinion, the media, etc. to force Pace, in order to maintain its corporate image and future solvency and prosperity, to cough up fully asap.

That 100%/0% split in responsibility will be hard to maintain when investors were signing false accredited investor declarations and signing share subscription forms when they thought they were signing for a GIC purchase.

Please write your comments in the forum.