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Pace Securities
August 27, 2020
5:45 am
Elaine
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Norman1 said
PACE Credit Union issued Affected Members Update #7 two days ago (August 24).

The updates are at PACE CU: Four-Point Action Plan Updates  

Thanks Norman
You can see that I will have a problem if I decide to opt out.
Sign a document on the computer?
Just what old ladies do every day!sf-confused

August 27, 2020
6:16 am
Norman1
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The August 17 notice to preference shareholders is in the EY Document Centre: PACE Securities under Notice to Customers.

Yes, it would be a challenge. The opt-out letter is not even fillable electronically.

One needs to print it, complete it, scan the completed letter, and then e-mail the scan to Paliare Roland.

I think it is presumed that those who opt out would have their own lawyer and their lawyer would do all that to opt out.

August 27, 2020
6:39 am
Elaine
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Hello Norman
Thanks for that .
Did not know that and I don't even think it said that anywhere.But then again so much of the stuff has flew by me.
So much for last minute decisions.
You have provided a public service.
Need a gold star emoji

September 4, 2020
11:56 am
member
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While all the lawyers are busy sorting this out, here’s a video someone made that exposes the mess led up this.

September 4, 2020
5:09 pm
bpcpa
Cambridge ON
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The only thing worse than reading this article from the Globe and Mail is having someone read it alongside pictures displaying the excessive/extravagant/extortionate lifestyle of former CEO Larry Smith (and associates including his son) all paid for by Pace Credit Union members and more recently Pace Securities. The greed sickens me greatly. The former board of directors is cleary complicit in this and as an accountant, I have no idea how any of this escaped the attention of the auditors.

September 9, 2020
2:09 pm
WHTT
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member said
While all the lawyers are busy sorting this out, here’s a video someone made that exposes the mess led up this.

  

Now someone needs to update this video to reflect the continuation of this story all the way up to May 2020, hence exposing how this type of environment was the fertile ground that fostered questionable business practices, overlooked financial regulations, promoted transparency when there was little to none, and ultimately lead to so many unsuspecting people being misled and outright deceived which caused them to lose much of their life savings.

September 9, 2020
8:52 pm
Bud
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I have been to credit unions many times and pitched preferred shares I always new they were not guarnteed no matter what anyone in the branch said. By definition preferred shares are not guaranteed. I would always say no thanks. Never had an issue with Pace dont recall them being overly pushy to sell.

Please explain again were you told they were preferred specifically and guaranteed.

September 10, 2020
5:00 am
Bill
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I've only dealt with any local, neighborhood credit union once. I was sold something by a credit union that the staff there called "shares" that paid "dividends", if I hadn't known better (I read the prospectus closely) I would have assumed the dividends would have been taxed as Canadian dividend income instead of, as was the case, as interest income and that the shares weren't really a locked-in vehicle more akin to a bond or gic.. Perhaps it's normal credit union front-line staff culture to be deceptive. Or uninformed.

September 10, 2020
6:26 am
canadian.100
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Bill said
I've only dealt with any local, neighborhood credit union once. I was sold something by a credit union that the staff there called "shares" that paid "dividends", if I hadn't known better (I read the prospectus closely) I would have assumed the dividends would have been taxed as Canadian dividend income instead of, as was the case, as interest income and that the shares weren't really a locked-in vehicle more akin to a bond or gic.. Perhaps it's normal credit union front-line staff culture to be deceptive. Or uninformed.  

I do not deal with credit unions - so this is new to me - I did not realize they sell something which they call "preferred shares" which pay interest, not dividends, and are not marketable. These seem to be what I would associate with a non-redeemable unsecured debenture. They certainly have no similarity to preferred shares that I am familiar with issued by corporations, pay dividends and can be traded on the TSX. Not sure why credit unions would call them "preferred shares".
This is misleading or perhaps as Bill says "misinformed" or "deceptive" on the part of credit union front line staff.

September 13, 2020
6:01 pm
Norman1
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They are actually shares, preferred or common, in the credit union.

However, credit unions don't pay regular corporate taxes because of special tax breaks. See previous post.

Consequently, their pools of earnings that they've paid regular corporate taxes (GRIP) or small business corporate taxes (LRIP) on are empty. So, they cannot declare an eligible dividend or other-than-eligible dividend that comes with a dividend tax credit.

No dividend tax credit. No dividend gross-up. Just regular income.

September 14, 2020
5:49 am
bpcpa
Cambridge ON
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Hi all. I'm following along as an accountant/financial advisor for a new client who was misled into investing in these pref shares. I'm pretty sickened by this whole mess and have helped some clients through other cases of "really bad advice" but this one is pretty egregious. I did wonder if there is any need/reason to make complaints elsewhere against those advisors? My client had an advisor who was way over his head in any understanding about these preferred shares and obviously did a really poor job in assessing risk of these shares and also in assessing the risk tolerance of my client. Then he left the scene abruptly without any explanation to go collect "CERB" Has anyone filed complaints about their advisors to IIROC (I know IIROC is already weighing in against PACE) or OBSI ?

September 14, 2020
6:09 am
sevenup
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bpcpa said
Hi all. I'm following along as an accountant/financial advisor for a new client who was misled into investing in these pref shares. I'm pretty sickened by this whole mess and have helped some clients through other cases of "really bad advice" but this one is pretty egregious. I did wonder if there is any need/reason to make complaints elsewhere against those advisors? My client had an advisor who was way over his head in any understanding about these preferred shares and obviously did a really poor job in assessing risk of these shares and also in assessing the risk tolerance of my client. Then he left the scene abruptly without any explanation to go collect "CERB" Has anyone filed complaints about their advisors to IIROC (I know IIROC is already weighing in against PACE) or OBSI ?  

Yes, many of us Pace investors have filed a complaint with IIROC, FSRA (complaint against credit union only) and Ontario Securities Commission. These regulatory boards won't get your money back but would be able to revoke your adviser's license when the investigation completes.

September 14, 2020
7:37 am
Norman1
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One will need to first determine who the advisor was and the firm the advisor was representing.

There is more than one firm involved in this mess. Some people were dealing with a representative from PACE Credit Union. Some with a rep from PACE Securities.

Which PACE company is important. No point filing a complaint with IIROC if the advisor was from PACE Credit Union. The credit union is not an investment dealer and, consequently, cannot be an IIROC member. As well, the credit union is not one of the firms that works with OBSI.

September 14, 2020
8:16 am
Elaine
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One more day before the OPT OUT time with PRRR.
Anyone willing to say who is in and who is out?
I am using my own name so won't say.

The other place to make a complaint is with the OSC.My advisor(er) was not IIROC certified.As far as I knew he was a Pace Credit Union employee.My complaint is going through them.If anyone wants the contact details-PM me -or Norman probably has it handy.Whatever.
Just good luck everyone.
I hope people do jail time over this and that people are allowed to say their piece(peace?) before the sentencing.
I guess we can all be happy that we weren't in senior's homes or that if you are in one ,you survived the Covid disaster.Best of luck ,all

September 14, 2020
8:50 am
JenE
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The very best of luck to you Elaine, and to everyone else impacted by this Pace-related disgrace.

September 14, 2020
9:18 am
Norman1
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My earlier post has a link to the Ontario Securities Commission page with its contact info.

September 20, 2020
8:32 am
Dave_1
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From my very limited viewpoint as a PACE CU customer for decades & also a screwed over PACE Securities customer, this is what, a $50M-$60M problem ? Then there's the lost revenue + growing lawyer fees + pain & suffering + whatever else the courts allow.

Sure there's a legal difference between PACE CU & PACE Securities, but wake up PACE. PACE is PACE is PACE.

Which brings me to "Options". Just what are my options should PACE CU make us whole on Oct 15th ? or conversely give us the shaft on Oct 15th ?

From my crystal ball I'm seeing 2 options --

a) PACE CU makes me whole - me & my money continues to stay with PACE CU indefinitely.

b) anything less than whole - I won't be waiting for years of litigation. My family & I will pull every remaining dime we have and move it to another financial institution. And I hope every one of the other 39,996 PACE CU members do the same.

The new board of directors has a tough job, cleaning up from Joseph Thomson & the Larry / Phillip Smith, father / son duo. It's never a fun time inheriting someone elses horrific work.

George Cooke and Barbara Dirks, I want you to be successful. I want PACE to survive this ordeal. A mass exit will hurt too many people. I hope your listening. Allow me to pick option a). Otherwise I see no alternative for me.... option b). Then me & my money are gone.

I hope other PACE CU members will plot their course of action and go public with their opinion.

September 20, 2020
2:31 pm
bpcpa
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Good points for sure. However, is there a deadline of October 15th? Have I missed that somewhere or is that a best guess for some sort of resolution re the recovery fund? 2 other separate questions 1) why is there so little press on this matter? I’ve only seen articles in the investment executive and Globe and Mail. With that in mind, 2) can someone clarify/confirm how many investors are currently impacted ?

With thanks

September 20, 2020
6:25 pm
Norman1
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October 15 is when the credit union's exclusive authority to present a settlement expires. After expiry, anyone can propose a settlement:

14. THIS COURT ORDERS that until October 15, 2020 or such later date as may be agreed by Representative Counsel and the Court Appointed Liquidators or ordered by this Court (the "Exclusivity Period"), the Credit Union shall have the exclusive authority to seek, design and present a settlement and/or settlement package in respect of direct and indirect Investor Claims (including Claims Over and Third Party Claims) against the Credit Union and/or its officers and directors in respect of the Preference Shares, for consideration by Representative Counsel and the Court Appointed Liquidators.

September 21, 2020
8:13 am
Bud
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With Nortel I felt well off pension holders or those eligible to receive smaller amounts should have been passed over to help those in need. I'd like to see the class action system moved to this individual model. For example someone with financial assets of a million dollars say and a secure pension could forfeit 10k. I felt screwed over by some of them as a shareholder.

What are the total lawyers fees higher than what they say when all costs included. Some of you may be better off negotiating directly with Pace. Ask them what they can do for you. Inquire.

Please write your comments in the forum.