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Ontario Hydro
October 15, 2020
7:51 am
Kidd
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Ontario years ago needed a "time of use" incentive program because we "WERE" an industrial province. We risked brown outs during peak power usage times.

Power plants were built, scrapped and then rebuilt, a tunnel under Niagara falls was dug and green energy was purchased (solar/wind) ALL at a price 3 to 4 times, of what an intelligent person would pay.

The previous government in ontario then purposely, maliciously did everything in their power in drive industry away, we were to become the brain centre of north America, a service hub, the envy of all. We ensured our teachers were the highest paid in canada and the least qualified to do the job.

October 15, 2020
9:49 am
pooreva
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Loonie said
We just calculated that the annual savings for choosing Tiered would be... $7.58 !

WOW!!! Is that what all the fuss was about? sf-confused
I expect our electricity usage to go down next summer because we just finally got rid of that cursed thermostat that automatically re-sets every so many hours. We've gone back to a DIY thermostat, where, when you tell it what to do, it sticks with it until you tell it to do something else. Ah the joy of the simple pleasure of a thermostat that doesn't have a mind of its own!  

Saving is good to have but what tiered plan will allow you is to live your life the way you enjoy it and not to chase off-peak rate and freeze/boil during on-peak time.

I did try some Huneywell products like Lyric Round and T4/T5 thermostats.
None of them worked for me... I have no use of WiFi connected appliances at all. I have no use of appliances designed to 'think' for you.
My thermostat is plain, easy to read digital where I can set up on/off time and temperature and it will do exactly that: turn furnace on/off at certain time and maintain temperature. All that 'prediction' built into 'modern' thermostats is NOT working for me.
If you need recommendation for reliable, button based (no touch screen as screen goes bad easily) thermostat, let me know.

October 15, 2020
9:56 am
Bill
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Done my run, raw rainy day so indoors looks good right now, so I dug up some partial data from my last 21 electricity bills for my home. Calculator tells me I'll save (depending on what variables I entered) between $3 - $5.50 per month if I go to tiered pricing.

October 15, 2020
9:58 am
JenE
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Kidd, you don’t know what you’re talking about re teachers. My daughter has been teaching for 20 years, has consistently upgraded her education, mostly at her own expense, spent thousands, yes thousands, of unpaid extra hours working at school and at home for the benefit of students. If teachers in Ontario are the highest paid it’s because they have a union that has fought for them. I’ve worked both non-union and union, and was very thankful for the protection, health, safety and security from belonging to a union. I certainly didn’t have that in non-union shops, but I did work in dangerous conditions at times. As did my late husband. I could go on but I’ll never change your mind. There, I’ve vented. Have at me if you wish.

October 15, 2020
10:10 am
savemoresaveoften
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JenE said
Kidd, you don’t know what you’re talking about re teachers. My daughter has been teaching for 20 years, has consistently upgraded her education, mostly at her own expense, spent thousands, yes thousands, of unpaid extra hours working at school and at home for the benefit of students. If teachers in Ontario are the highest paid it’s because they have a union that has fought for them. I’ve worked both non-union and union, and was very thankful for the protection, health, safety and security from belonging to a union. I certainly didn’t have that in non-union shops, but I did work in dangerous conditions at times. As did my late husband. I could go on but I’ll never change your mind. There, I’ve vented. Have at me if you wish.  

I am sure there are dedicated and hard working teachers like your daughter that deserves every penny.

On the other hand, there are those that are not really "qualified" to be a teacher, protected by the union, and taking home a 6 figure pay cuz he/she has been around a long time. This is not directly from me, but from daughter and her friends comment on some of the teachers at her school.

I am not a fan of union, as there is the wrong incentive of to strike, to use up the union dues, and too much of a "corporate is evil" mentality.

Back to the hydro rates, it seems most will see a savings staying on tiered pricing and the added benefit of no worry about TOU. Signed up today (I am with Alectra) to elect for tiered pricing starting in November.

October 15, 2020
12:42 pm
Kidd
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If you dig through my older posts… I’ve never attempted to hide my background and I made it very clear from the onset, many of you will not see eye to eye with me. A) my collar is blue. B) I am from the GM era of Bob White and Buzz Hargrove, UAW and CAW. C) I have and always will speak out against Unifor and Jerry De-Ass (just pathetic). D) you know my political views are not of the "RED" agenda. I am not a believer in, “everything should be free” or “I have an entitlement” policy.

In the auto industry (the skilled trades sector) much like with the provincial teachers, jobs were and are assigned to those UNqualified to perform the task. The big auto companies tried equalization of overtime hours to address this issue, that didn’t work. Then, ballpark 15 years ago new terminology emerged, “Skill Set.” The auto companies fought to make “Skill Set” the deciding factor on who gets the job, who gets the overtime.

Believe me… the skilled trade jobs in the auto sector went to most unskilled labour force you could possibly imagine, even after 30 years of service some were never quite sure which end of the hammer hits the nail. Because of the hourly pay rate involved, nepotism ran rampant. Anyone and Everyone in a position of power (Company and Union) had their kids in the Skilled Trades program. Their “last name” openly mocked the true nature, the honesty of the skilled trades hiring practice.

FORD Canada’s most recent contact (Sept 2020) solidified the condition of SKILL SET over seniority, which is something I, 100% agree with.

Where this gets funny.

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-news/ontario-teachers-will-no-longer-be-hired-based-on-seniority-2794143

The Ontario education minister is trying to hire teachers on a “SKILL SET” basis and the teacher’s union are arguing… this hiring practice will lead to Nepotism, this is a fallacy. Doug Ford should put on his big boy pants and obliterate the teacher's union and NOW is the perfect time to do so, while no one is being taught anything.

To balance the provincial books, the entire education program in Ontario should be put under a microscope and all the dead wood tossed aside.

my posts are getting as long as Loonie's

October 15, 2020
12:46 pm
chamnic
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Alexandre said
There should be an incentive to use TOU and switch load to off peak time. If customer uses 2/3 of their power at off peak time and still does not see substantial difference between TOU and Tiered - that's wrong.

It tells me off peak TOU price is set too high, or Tiered too low.  

You're right. When TOU came in effect (2006), off-peak was 3 times as cheap as on-peak. Over the years, this got reduced to 2x as time cheap.

See here for historical rates
https://www.oeb.ca/rates-and-your-bill/electricity-rates/historical-electricity-rates

October 18, 2020
8:05 am
rodeworthy
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Loonie said
We just calculated that the annual savings for choosing Tiered would be... $7.58 !

WOW!!! Is that what all the fuss was about? sf-confused

We have gas heat, gas clothes dryer, and gas water heater.
We have never exceeded 1000Kwh/month.

Loonie, the tiered winter premium price point at 1,000 KW (not KWh)* is the easy one. Most households, including mine, can stay below that consumption level in winter.

Can you say the same thing for the summer cooling season when the price point is 600 KW? The cooling season is where we go over and into the premium pricing. We are over that threshold 46% of the time in summer. We do practice conservation all the year. We have mastered the programmable thermostat sf-wink. Summers are getting hotter.

*KWh - flow rate of electrical power - 1000 watts per hour
KW - quantity of electrical power - 1000 Watts

You do not pay for gas in your car by how fast the pump can fill the tank (rate). Instead you pay for the number of litres (quantity) deposited in the tank.

Can't blame you for the misquote when the Ontario Energy Board cannot get it right either. They should know better.

October 18, 2020
9:08 am
Norman1
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rodeworthy said

*KWh - flow rate of electrical power - 1000 watts per hour
KW - quantity of electrical power - 1000 Watts

You do not pay for gas in your car by how fast the pump can fill the tank (rate). Instead you pay for the number of litres (quantity) deposited in the tank.

Can't blame you for the misquote when the Ontario Energy Board cannot get it right either. They should know better.

The Ontario Energy Board is correct.

KWh is not kilowatts per hour. It is kilowatt-hour which is consuming energy at a rate of 1,000 watts for a period of hour.

KW is kilowatt = 1,000 watts = 1,000 joules of energy per second.

October 18, 2020
9:43 am
Kidd
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Norman you just asked for this...

A man walks into a hardware store. "Hi, i'd like to buy four, two watt bulbs."
The sales clerk asks, "for what?"
"NO... two watt."
"We don't have any."

October 18, 2020
1:46 pm
Norman1
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Spoken language confusion over what's "what" and what's a "watt"! sf-laugh

I wonder if Apple's Siri, Microsoft's Cortana, or Amazon's Alexa is intelligent enough yet to sort it out.

October 18, 2020
3:34 pm
topgun
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Loonie said
We just calculated that the annual savings for choosing Tiered would be... $7.58 !

WOW!!! Is that what all the fuss was about? sf-confused

We have gas heat, gas clothes dryer, and gas water heater.
We have never exceeded 1000Kwh/month.

I expect our electricity usage to go down next summer because we just finally got rid of that cursed thermostat that automatically re-sets every so many hours. We've gone back to a DIY thermostat, where, when you tell it what to do, it sticks with it until you tell it to do something else. Ah the joy of the simple pleasure of a thermostat that doesn't have a mind of its own!  

I checked TOU vs. Tiered. I could only go back to mid
July. Yes there is a little savings over 3 months. Not going to change. I am on equal monthly payment. My payment is set for 12 months.

Have a Great Day

October 18, 2020
3:41 pm
topgun
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topgun said

I checked TOU vs. Tiered. I could only go back to mid
July. Yes there is a little savings over 3 months. Not going to change. I am on equal monthly payment. My payment is set for 12 months.  

I leave my thermostat the same all year round. 76F. Just flip from heat to cool.

Have a Great Day

October 19, 2020
5:07 am
savemoresaveoften
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Norman1 said

rodeworthy said

*KWh - flow rate of electrical power - 1000 watts per hour
KW - quantity of electrical power - 1000 Watts

You do not pay for gas in your car by how fast the pump can fill the tank (rate). Instead you pay for the number of litres (quantity) deposited in the tank.

Can't blame you for the misquote when the Ontario Energy Board cannot get it right either. They should know better.

The Ontario Energy Board is correct.

KWh is not kilowatts per hour. It is kilowatt-hour which is consuming energy at a rate of 1,000 watts for a period of hour.

KW is kilowatt = 1,000 watts = 1,000 joules of energy per second.  

Yeah I second Norman1.
What OEB is saying is if one uses more than 1000kw for 1 hour continuously, which is 1,000,000 watts continuous for 1hr, anything above that is higher price.

Thats how consumption is measured. 1kw by itself is meaningless.

October 19, 2020
7:41 am
Kidd
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savemoresaveoften said

Yeah I second Norman1.
What OEB is saying is if one uses more than 1000kw for 1 hour continuously, which is 1,000,000 watts continuous for 1hr, anything above that is higher price.

Thats how consumption is measured. 1kw by itself is meaningless.  

I think you are making the water muddy.

We pay the utility on a monthly basis. Your consumption of hydro is for the month. In one Winter month you have 1,000 kw to use at a lower rate. Next winter month you have another 1,000 kw to use at a lower rate.

If you use your 1,000 kw in one day, for the next 29 days you are paying the higher rate for each kw.

October 19, 2020
9:56 am
Norman1
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Energy used is in kWh, BTU, joules, or calories.

W or kW is how fast energy (measured in joules) is being used per second. One has to multiply the consumption rate, W or kW, by time to get the amount of energy used.

A 15 W light bulb on for 40 hours uses

15 W x 40 h = 0.015 kW x 40 h = 0.6 kWh of electricity.

If the price is 12.6¢ per kWh, then the cost is

0.6 kWh x 12.6¢/kWh = 7.56¢

One could, but doesn't have to use, the entire 1,000 kWh of lower-rate electrical energy in a single hour. All these are equivalent:

  1. 1,000 kW for 1 hour
  2. 100 kW for 10 hours
  3. 10 kW for 100 hours
October 19, 2020
11:50 am
pooreva
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topgun said

I leave my thermostat the same all year round. 76F. Just flip from heat to cool.  

Hmmm. This forum is for Canadians... No idea what F is...

October 19, 2020
12:40 pm
Kidd
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I still use fahrenheit. I always do a rough conversion in my head.

Celsius x 2 + 30 = fahrenheit

October 19, 2020
12:41 pm
topgun
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pooreva said

Hmmm. This forum is for Canadians... No idea what F is...  

When I bought my house I changed to a digital thermostat. It was definitely purchased in Canada. The settings were Fahrenheit not Centigrade. 0C is 32F. 100C is 212F. To convert F to C. 76F - 32F / 1.8 = 24.4C.

Have a Great Day

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