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Tangerine would not honor the rate agreement that was made with a Tangerine Service Rep today
July 31, 2020
5:36 pm
Cents11111
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I called Tangerine today as our 2.5% offer was expiring tomorrow on the $100K+ that both my wife and I have with Tang. Once I got through to them (30 minutes) and after the service representative checked with her supervisor, she came back and initially offered 1.8% in total. I told her that that wasn’t good enough as I can get 2.0% from EQ Bank. Just as I was about to hang up the service rep said you misunderstand, that it is a 1.8% bonus on top of the regular .25% regular rate (which today just dropped to .20%). This would result in a total annual interest rate of 2.05%. Given that today the regular rate has now dropped to .20% it would now be a total annual rate of 2.0%. Both my wife and I agreed to the offer which was recorded by the service representative. When I went to Tangerine online to confirm everything was as we had agreed to I saw that the account total interest was only 1.8% made up of a bonus of 1.6% and a regular rate of .2% instead of the 2.0% that we had been promised. I called Tangerine back and spoke to a different service rep and explained what had happened. He said that the back office would listen to the recording and if it was as I said that it would be corrected. He went away and came back and stated that they haven’t listened to the recording but that doesn’t matter, as they would not honour the first service representative's agreement with me (nor the statement that current service rep had just given me saying that they would correct the mistake based on what was on the recording). He said they are only willing to honour a total of 1.8%. I told him that would not do and I would be posting this incident on the CHISBA website. Obviously they don’t care about their reputation as I am not the first to have trouble with them. I am also irritated in that I have shares in Scotia Bank and this kind of bait and switch customer treatment does not bode well for their future. So this is a notice to all members that you should be aware when you are dealing with Tangerine that you cannot rely on them to honour their service representative’s agreement.

July 31, 2020
6:07 pm
Vatox
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I never call them to negotiate rates. My money just leaves and goes. elsewhere. If Tang wants my money, they can contact me with a better offer. That means they would need to offer at least 2.50% or I’m not going to bother moving it back to Tang. I would never spend my time and energy on them. It’s not like they are going to offer like 3% anyways, so I support those that try hard to always keep the rate competitive.

Lol, I didn’t even notice the rate dropped to 0.2%. I have no money there.

July 31, 2020
6:09 pm
GICinvestor
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I am thinking that the second rep took the easy way out. I would ask for a manager to speak to and have BOTH conversations listened to. A $100,000 is a lot to invest and commit to a term .....with a shaky rate of return.

The more I hear about Tangerine the more happier I am that I don’t and won’t deal with them.

July 31, 2020
6:45 pm
Loonie
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Cents11111 said
I called Tangerine today as our 2.5% offer was expiring tomorrow on the $100K+ that both my wife and I have with Tang. Once I got through to them (30 minutes) and after the service representative checked with her supervisor, she came back and initially offered 1.8% in total. I told her that that wasn’t good enough as I can get 2.0% from EQ Bank. Just as I was about to hang up the service rep said you misunderstand, that it is a 1.8% bonus on top of the regular .25% regular rate (which today just dropped to .20%). This would result in a total annual interest rate of 2.05%. Given that today the regular rate has now dropped to .20% it would now be a total annual rate of 2.0%. Both my wife and I agreed to the offer which was recorded by the service representative. When I went to Tangerine online to confirm everything was as we had agreed to I saw that the account total interest was only 1.8% made up of a bonus of 1.6% and a regular rate of .2% instead of the 2.0% that we had been promised. I called Tangerine back and spoke to a different service rep and explained what had happened. He said that the back office would listen to the recording and if it was as I said that it would be corrected. He went away and came back and stated that they haven’t listened to the recording but that doesn’t matter, as they would not honour the first service representative's agreement with me (nor the statement that current service rep had just given me saying that they would correct the mistake based on what was on the recording). He said they are only willing to honour a total of 1.8%. I told him that would not do and I would be posting this incident on the CHISBA website. Obviously they don’t care about their reputation as I am not the first to have trouble with them. I am also irritated in that I have shares in Scotia Bank and this kind of bait and switch customer treatment does not bode well for their future. So this is a notice to all members that you should be aware when you are dealing with Tangerine that you cannot rely on them to honour their service representative’s agreement.  

Spouse found an app that easily records telephone conversations. We now turn it on whenever talking to banks, phone companies, internet service providers, cable TV, etc - all the outfits that are prone to not honouring their verbal agreements. Could be handy in small claims court or to escalate, although I'm not sur they even care. At least it gives u s a clear record - or at least as clear as these people get. If you can't understand what they are saying, ask them to repeat and speak more slowly and into the microphone until you do, or, if necessary, get them to spell it. Take your time; don't be frazzled by their speedy chatter. I just tell them I have a hearng problem.

I've come to the reluctant conclusion that when most of these companies supposedly record your conversation with them, it's just a ploy to make you doubt yourself. I've had Bell reps tell me they don't keep the recordings of these verbal agreements anyway, even when I've told them the name of the person i spoke to and the exact time; they couldn't care less.

Be very careful though that they are actually saying what you think they are saying. Review the agreement before you hand up and make sure they say yes to each item separately, so there is no misunderstanding.
This will include (but is not limited to)
*base and promo interest rate,
*which if any of these rates is subject to change,
*new money or existing,
*which accounts are covered,
*minimum deposit required if any,
*maximum deposit covered by the rate if any,
*duration of promo,
etc.

August 1, 2020
4:35 am
dentgal
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Thanks for the tip on recording the phonecall, Loonie. Somehow I doubt that they will listen to OUR recording because they will say that they have their own recording. But you are right that in small claims court, it should be admissible evidence!
I would like opinions: my 2.5% expired July 31st. It is now Aug 1st. I should have called yesterday, but wasn't home all day and forgot about the rate expiration. It is Saturday.
Would you call on a weekend? Or do you think that there is better flexibility to get a better rate on a weekday (Monday to Friday)?
Did anyone call Simplii?

August 1, 2020
5:07 am
Loonie
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Who can say?
You are losing money every day you leave it there at 0.2%.
As I recall, you typically have large deposits there, so the losses add up quickly.
I'd give it a shot today if it were me, if I had the time.

August 1, 2020
9:34 am
pooreva
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Vatox said
I never call them to negotiate rates. My money just leaves and goes. elsewhere

Exactly. Do not waste your life trying to persuade Tang to give you better rate. Their offers are random so if you get one, and you like it, take it.
You are just drop in the sea. They can do well without your money. There are countless customers who forget they have money there or that their offer has expired.
This is NOT ING from 20 years ago. This is one of Canadian big banks with fancy name. Do you see ANY of Can. big banks offering incredible rate? No? So there you go. Just move on to a better rate you can find in a chart.

As for recording phone conversation, don't you have to let other party first you will be recording?

August 1, 2020
2:00 pm
dentgal
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Well, Loonie, you encouraged me to call today, so I did. (and you have a good memory.) I was only offered 1.8%. I am going to get a call-back from someone else but I accepted the 1.8% for now. I'm not sure if it's worth moving to EQ for the extra 0.2% because you lose about a week in transfer time.

August 1, 2020
2:41 pm
LK
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Just a brief caveat on any offer from Tangerine re "bonus interest". They calculate a bonus amount on top of the usual amount, and the usual amount is variable. Accordingly, if Tangerine is offering 1.8%, they are actually (at a point in time, based base interest rate and time of offer) offering 1.6% "bonus" on top of the base rate (currently 0.2%). So if the base rate goes down in the months ahead, so does the total of the offer.

Here is the "fine print" from Tangerine (aka "Gangrine" a la gangrene).

.... "Additional Interest" is 1.60%. Additional Interest is added to the applicable posted rate of interest listed on the Bank's website (the "Posted Rate") to calculate the total amount of interest payable under this Offer. (For example, if the Posted Rate were 1.05% and the Additional Interest were 0.45% then: Posted Rate of 1.05% + Additional Interest of 0.45% = Offer of 1.50%). Any change to the Posted Rate will result in a corresponding change to the Offer. ....

August 1, 2020
2:45 pm
Loonie
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I updated my own personal HISA rate chart after my last post and concluded that you'd likely get 1.8%, dentgal. EQ may be giving 2%, but it's not guaranteed for any time at all. Considering everything else that's going on financially, it's likely to fall a bit sometime soon.
I doubt the call-back will improve the offer, but do let us know if I'm wrong!
I'd be inclined to leave the money there for now. It's the least hassle in an uncertain world and a pretty good rate all things considered.

August 1, 2020
2:46 pm
Cents11111
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Dentgal. If you pull from EQ you should end up with more interest. EQ Bank will start giving you interest on your transfer date and it likely won't go through Tang for a day or 2. That way you will get interest both from EQ and Tang.

August 1, 2020
3:18 pm
Norman1
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LK said
Just a brief caveat on any offer from Tangerine re "bonus interest". They calculate a bonus amount on top of the usual amount, and the usual amount is variable. … So if the base rate goes down in the months ahead, so does the total of the offer.

That's not the case with two of the Tangerine offers:

8. A Promotional Interest rate of 2.80% will apply to Eligible Deposits under this Offer. Eligible Clients will receive Promotional Interest in two separate interest payments - (1) interest calculated at the Posted Rate, (2) an additional interest payment that represents the excess of Promotional Interest over Posted Rate interest (“additional interest”). For clarity, Promotional Interest equals the sum of Posted Rate interest and additional interest. … The Posted Rate may change at any time without prior notice, resulting in a corresponding change to the additional interest rate so that the Promotional Interest rate remains unchanged. Notwithstanding the above, the Bank may change the Promotional Interest rate at any time without prior notice.

5. A Promotional Interest rate of 2.50% will apply to eligible deposits under this Offer. … Eligible Clients will receive Promotional Interest in two separate interest payments – (1) interest calculated at the posted rate of interest listed on the Bank’s website (the “Posted Rate”) is paid at the end of the month in which it was accrued, (2) an additional interest payment that represents the excess of Promotional Interest over Posted Rate interest (“Additional Interest”) is paid at the start of the month following the month in which it was calculated. For clarity, Promotional Interest equals the sum of Posted Rate interest and Additional Interest. The Posted Rate may change at any time without prior notice, resulting in a corresponding change to the additional interest rate so that the Promotional Interest rate remains unchanged. Notwithstanding the above, the Bank may change the Promotional Interest rate at any time without prior notice.

August 1, 2020
3:36 pm
LK
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Thanks, Norman1. I guess this goes to show that each person needs to read the fine print as to what Tangerine has committed to. What you've posted is different than on my "offer" fine print.

My offer was based on a phone call / negotiation with Tangerine as a "one off" and was not one of their usual "bonus promotions" that seem to be generally available.

August 1, 2020
3:49 pm
LK
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I would further add that Tangerine's general bonus promotions only apply to net new deposits, over and above what is in specified accounts as of the date of offer.

My "one off" negotiation with Tangerine applies to all funds in my savings account regardless of net new.

Maybe that is why I am seeing fine print different from the general bonus fine print?

August 1, 2020
4:37 pm
Bill
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pooreva, it's ok to record a private conversation as long as one of the parties (i.e. even the person doing the recording) gives consent. It can be assumed anyone recording a conversation has given consent (to themselves!), so that meets the requirement.

It's different for businesses, that's why they first ask you if it's ok.

August 1, 2020
4:57 pm
pooreva
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Bill said
pooreva, it's ok to record a private conversation as long as one of the parties (i.e. even the person doing the recording) gives consent. It can be assumed anyone recording a conversation has given consent (to themselves!), so that meets the requirement.

It's different for businesses, that's why they first ask you if it's ok.  

Business Never asks for consent! No matter whom you call, before you reach live person recording says 'your call will be recorded and/or monitored'. Basically if you do not like it you will never reach customer service, support, etc.

August 1, 2020
5:45 pm
Bill
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True, "ask" was probably the wrong word (though I have had many cases where they indicate they're recording and am I ok with that? I always say "sure"), but unlike private non-business conversations they are required to let you know of the recording and then I guess at that point if you continue than you are giving consent. I don't know what would happen if I ever said, once a live person came on, that I don't want to be recorded, maybe I'll try it & see what happens next time.

It's in the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) or other provincial legislation, it seems, here's the link for anyone who wants to know all the details (looks like lots of opportunity for legal interpretation):
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/sc-2000-c-5/latest/sc-2000-c-5.html

August 1, 2020
9:10 pm
Norman1
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LK said

My "one off" negotiation with Tangerine applies to all funds in my savings account regardless of net new.

Maybe that is why I am seeing fine print different from the general bonus fine print?

I suspect Tangerine Bank has multiple unadvertised offers running at the same time.

The offers differ not only on the offered rate, but also on whether the extra interest is on the entire balance or on just new deposits. From what you reported, it looks like the Tangerine offers can also differ on whether it is the offered rate that is fixed or it is just the amount of bonus interest, paid above the normal interest, that's fixed.

I remember a while back Loonie found a discrepancy in the additional promo interest paid on a 3% Tangerine Bank offer. It turned out that Loonie and I were given different 3% offers! sf-surprised

Loonie's 3% offer was 1.75% basic + 1.25% promo. Mine was 1.05% regular + 1.95% Additional Interest!

August 1, 2020
9:34 pm
AltaRed
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Tangerine simply should get out of this promotional business. I can't imagine the resources it takes and the stress on employees. Offer a competitive flat rate of 1.6% or so and leave it alone. As a BNS shareholder, I am agitated by this nonsense.

August 2, 2020
3:14 am
User230
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I have thought about closing my Tangerine account many times.

I keep it open as their percent cashback on their credit card is good at 2% for 3 categories.

Tangerine knows their customer relations are bad and have to offer higher rates because of this.

Same for the savings account. Although they look to create buzz by offering high rates to some. Pitting customers against one another. Causing them to want to phone in and get that rate. Fear of missing out syndrome. Increasing forum chatter. Kind of like this post....

Tangerine wants to make it seem they have the highest rate of all when they just rotate it around their customer base and do select increases to some phone in retention customers to maintain the amount of deposits, they need to keep their company afloat. Their picking and choosing who gets what rate is probably not complex, maybe first come first serve after the rotation is complete. It is unlikely they have a sliding scale based on well thought out factors. Likely its distributed unfairly. Not based on time with the bank or on other factors. Not worth it to stick around for that circus or chase down the exact way to get promotional interest.

Most of the time trying to change what you were offered, or not offered, is a waste of time. Some people like the rush of the chance of getting something more or something they think they deserve. To them maybe it is not a waste of time.

Other bad behaviors by Tangerine:

-Tangerine's marketing ways, partly involve coaxing good reviews from others by using money. They are more active than most in this area. For example, they have Tangerine Keys plastered all over the internet. Many websites get money for directing traffic to the Tangerine products and websites. The review websites are incentivised to promote Tangerine products as good. When they are hot garbage. Full of limited time offers, hard to understand tactics, and hard to detect issues. Lots of pitfalls everywhere to prevent you from actually getting the amount you thought you were getting.

-They watered down their services and increased fees over the last while as well.

This is more likely the true rating of Tangerine

https://ca.trustpilot.com/review/tangerine.ca

86% currently give the company a 1. The lowest score possible.

I would also rate them a one.

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