Negotiating with Tangerine on rates | Tangerine Bank (formerly ING Direct) | Discussion forum

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Negotiating with Tangerine on rates
December 4, 2016
7:45 am
ronsuperior1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
December 4, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi everyone,

Been following this forum for a while but newly registered to contribute.

After reading about Ideal Saving's 2.5% promo, I wondered whether Tangerine might rate match it.

I'm currenlty benefiting from 2% rate promo at Tangerine. I used their online chat to see if they would match the 2.5%. Their answer was a firm nothing above 2% is possible. A manager cannot override that. And with regard to bringing up how some people got 3% he would not comment on 'confidentiality of other's accounts' basis.

So - my question - is it possible that calling on the phone can get better results than online chat? I know this is the case with Internet providers sometimes...

Any insight would be helpful!

December 4, 2016
9:25 am
Bill
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 619
Member Since:
September 11, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yes, it is possible. As we all know from personal experience, it's way easier to blow off someone via text than by having a verbal conversation. Try it, be positive and charming, and let us know.

December 4, 2016
10:13 am
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1312
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think it is likely that Tangerine Bank will match.

First, Ideal Savings has ended their 2½% offer. Ideal Savings is currently offering 2.3% until December 31, 2017 on one's initial deposit only. Other deposits will earn 1.7%, not guaranteed.

Second, you are still under a 2% offer. Tangerine Bank usually doesn't give new offers to those who are still on a previous offer.

Third, I don't think it is up to the manager or customer service agent. I strongly suspect that the promotional rate is determined by computer algorithm. If the desired offer doesn't show up when your customer record is brought up by the agent, then the agent won't be able to do much.

If it is still worthwhile after the $3 per withdrawal fee at Ideal Savings, consider moving the money out of Tangerine to Ideal Savings for the better rate. Your chat and subsequent withdrawal may trigger a better offer from Tangerine later:

Saver-Mom said (January 16, 2016)

So my poor beleagered mom who was refused the 2% for 6 months (so immediately transferred out a large chunk of change) just received the 2.5%-on-new-money-till-end-of-March promo, by email. Sorry for that sentence structure! She has never received any email promo in the past, and had always left money in the account at whatever was the rate on offer. Hence, I suspect this new account activity (withdrawal) triggered the promo. To quote an old boyfriend, "I don't mind to be a puppet on a string, but not too long, or the string will break". BTW, I was the perfect girlfriend...

December 4, 2016
10:24 am
Winnie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
December 7, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My personal experience shows that Tangerine for sure understand one common language - withdrawal all the money out of Tangerine!

December 4, 2016
1:01 pm
Bill
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 619
Member Since:
September 11, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Norman1, I agree, seems like each customer is tagged with an indicator of how badly they want to retain you and there's no overriding that by an employee. Also Tangerine doesn't want to hear from you until the day your current promo expires and then they're ready to deal if you say you'll move it elsewhere because .8% isn't even close (they need to hear that "threat", it seems, they almost lead you to say it). Only once did I get a bump up, when I was about a week into my latest 90-day promo PC came up with their current offer and so I called Tangerine back (I never use chat) and told them I'm moving it there so Tangerine bumped me up to within .25% of PC if I agreed to leave it there so I said ok.
Winnie, probably doesn't apply to everyone but lately I've had better luck just leaving it there and calling them saying it's headed out if it goes to .8%. They do seem to prefer my new-found "loyalty" (I used to move it out just before the end of a promo), at least in my case.
EQ's regular rate is 2%, so that's a baseline level they seem to be good with for customers that they want to retain.

December 4, 2016
1:44 pm
ronsuperior1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
December 4, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

thanks for the advice all! i'm going to wait till my promo is up then call again with the same 'threat'. If they only want to extend the 2% and I can do better elsewhere at the time, i'll transfer out about 2/3 of my balance. (I like the convinence of multiple digital envelopes that you can nickname in Tangerine).

December 4, 2016
7:36 pm
moneyhelp
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
December 1, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

But what I'd like to know is, when calling in and "threatening" to leave, are you saying to them that you'll leave the bank for another or do you mean, transfer funds from one Tangerine account to another? I imagine the former, but the question that becomes, what if they call your bluff are you prepared to actually leave? sf-confused

December 4, 2016
10:20 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2967
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Honestly, as Norman said, Tang is all run by algorithms.
In the past, the only discretion that CSR has ever shown is if you threaten to move OR actually move the money. When you threaten, it SOMETIMES opens some kind of new window for them, provides a new piece of information which is entered into the mix and MAY result in a higher rate. However, it is not always the case. Typically you have to tell them where you are planning to move it and what the competing rate is before the window opens.

However, it doesn't always work. This is because they are also factoring in all kinds of other bits of info into their algorithm, which you will not be aware of or won't know their weight.

Whether you threaten to move the money or actually move it is a cr*p shoot. Sometimes you win by moving it; sometimes by not moving it. There is no consistency or predictability. It's a lottery from the consumer's perspective.

The best thing you can do is call them again later if you're not happy with their answer.

Another thing to be aware of is that they sometimes have special rates which only apply to new deposits after such-and-such date. These are temporary rates, but could be 3 to 6 months. If you have a low balance at the time that one of these offers begins, you can do very well. But if you already have your account topped up at the time, you are SOL.

December 4, 2016
10:55 pm
moneyhelp
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
December 1, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie said
Typically you have to tell them where you are planning to move it and what the competing rate is before the window opens.

What do you mean by "before the windows opens"?

Loonie said
Whether you threaten to move the money or actually move it is a cr*p shoot. Sometimes you win by moving it; sometimes by not moving it. There is no consistency or predictability. It's a lottery from the consumer's perspective.

Just curious, if one does move it, does the existing Tangerine account automatically close or to show you mean business, you actually HAVE to close it?

December 5, 2016
1:22 am
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2967
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

window: I meant what I said in the rest of the sentence.

What do you mean by "close"? Are you saying you would close the account entirely? I see no merit in that unless you plan to never do business with the again or have more accounts with them than you need. If it's closed, why/how would they offer you anything at all? If you're gone, you're gone.
Tangerine does not require a minimum balance, if that's what you're asking.

They don't really care whether you "mean business". You can't push them into anything. They have their algorithms, and that's all that matters to them. If you meet their mysterious criteria at a given point in time, they will make you an offer. That's it. Nobody knows the real criteria, and all trials have brought inconsistent results. As I said, the best thing is to try again later. There is evidence, however, that you will be punished if you don't accept an offer from them, but even that is not 100% consistent.

It may help to move money out or to threaten to do so, but it may not. That info would just be another input into the algorithm. For a while, it was helpful to threaten to move it out, but that has not been consistent. It may be helpful again later.

One thing that may help is to keep an eye on your profile. Sometimes they make offers that they put into your profile but you wouldn't otherwise necessarily know about.

December 5, 2016
6:32 am
Bill
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 619
Member Since:
September 11, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

moneyhelp, if you operate via "bluff" or similar tactics you would already know from past experience that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Good luck!

It might also be the case that Tangerine is just being totally random with what I would guess is the tiny fraction of their customers (maybe mainly comprised of those of us on this forum?!) who actually contact them all the time to say what the heck's going on with my rate? AND who also have multiple high interest accounts at various other competing institutions. If I ran a bank I wouldn't waste time and resources on those few unless I absolutely needed their money for the unpredictable periods they are gracing me with it or unless I was after other business with them such as credit cards, mortgages, other investment vehicles - the latter being probably what Tangerine is really after. (It might be my imagination but Tangerine seems a little more interested in me since I got - and my spouse uses enthusiastically! - our Tangerine MasterCard.) I'm not privy to many people's finances but I've not met others in my real life that have opened and actively use with relatively large amounts of money multiple high interest savings accounts at various institutions like I do. I know a few who might have a Tangerine or PC account because they use the grocery store and they keep a few thousand there and take whatever rate comes along. Aside from us penny-pinchers the vast majority see .8% and 1.75% as pretty much the same thing, i.e. low, not gonna make me rich, can't be bothered to move stuff around. Any long-term investments or sizeable chunks of money they have are with advisors or their main bank in mutual funds, etc.

December 5, 2016
7:45 am
Winnie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
December 7, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie said
Honestly, as Norman said, Tang is all run by algorithms.

Again, here is my personal experience with "algorithms".
For almost a year now, my Tangerine savings account has 0 balance.
During that time I received the following promotional offers automatically from "algorithms": 3.00%, 3.50% and right now 2.95% until December 31, 2016.
No phone calls, everything was done automatically.
But, because I do not play Tangerine games anymore, my balance still remain NIL.

December 5, 2016
8:20 am
fabafter50
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 68
Member Since:
October 22, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm with you Winnie. I had a different experience. I pulled a large amount of funds out of there when I only got a 2% offer. I called and got nowhere. That happened two more times and no matter what they offer now, they won't see a penny. I had a huge chunk of change with them and many different products and they had no respect for that loyalty.
I find their lottery banking reprehensible and won't deal with them on principle alone.
I shopped around and got good if not better elsewhere.

December 5, 2016
1:25 pm
Bill
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 619
Member Since:
September 11, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Interesting, Winnie, playing hard to get seems to be working for you - but good for you, you are standing on principle! Did you get those offers via email or did you see them when you signed into your Tangerine account (I rarely check my messages there)?

December 5, 2016
1:53 pm
Winnie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
December 7, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Bill said

Interesting, Winnie, playing hard to get seems to be working for you - but good for you, you are standing on principle! Did you get those offers via email or did you see them when you signed into your Tangerine account (I rarely check my messages there)?

As far as I remember, Bill, I received only one email confirmation and all other offers I simply "discovered" when I signed into my Tangerine accounts.

I do not know how to attach pictures here, in this forum.
I would attach a screenshot with my latest offer and big fat 0$ balances in my Tangerine accounts. So far, I just copied my last "promo-game":

"You're earning a special rate! From Oct 05, 2016 to Dec 31, 2016, your interest rate on up to $500,000 in your Tangerine Savings Account(s) and Tax-Free Savings Account(s) is 2.95%."

After I pressed "More Information" the following webpage appeared:
https://secure.tangerine.ca/web/Tangerine.html?command=displayOfferLandingPage

And, after I pressed "Terms and Conditions":
https://secure.tangerine.ca/web/Tangerine.html?command=displayOfferTermsAndConditions

By the way, I'm one of the first ING customers from 1998.

December 5, 2016
2:15 pm
moneyhelp
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
December 1, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie said

window: I meant what I said in the rest of the sentence.

Still don't know what you mean by "window", what window? I think I get the analogy used, but where is this preverbial window?

Loonie said
What do you mean by "close"? Are you saying you would close the account entirely? I see no merit in that unless you plan to never do business with the again or have more accounts with them than you need. If it's closed, why/how would they offer you anything at all? If you're gone, you're gone.
Tangerine does not require a minimum balance, if that's what you're asking.

By that I meant, to show Tangerine one would be serious about leaving, is the gesture of the threat imply that one must actually close the account and that will trigger this "algorithm" to attempt to retain you as a customer, or does the simply gesture of saying it to an agent enough for Tangerine to then offer a promo rate to a potential leaving customer.

The rest of your post does make sense to me and explains a lot , thank you.

Loonie said
One thing that may help is to keep an eye on your profile. Sometimes they make offers that they put into your profile but you wouldn't otherwise necessarily know about.

Good tip! Thanks!

December 5, 2016
2:18 pm
moneyhelp
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
December 1, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Winnie said
"You're earning a special rate! From Oct 05, 2016 to Dec 31, 2016, your interest rate on up to $500,000 in your Tangerine Savings Account(s) and Tax-Free Savings Account(s) is 2.95%."

Albeit, almost 3% is very high, but I don't think its worth it, if its only 3 months. 6 would be my personal threshold, but to each their own sf-smile

December 5, 2016
2:31 pm
Winnie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 121
Member Since:
December 7, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Bill said

Interesting, Winnie, playing hard to get seems to be working for you - but good for you, you are standing on principle! Did you get those offers via email or did you see them when you signed into your Tangerine account (I rarely check my messages there)?

Bill, I also remember, that about 2 months ago I received via email letter from Tangerine "Please rate us. It will takes about 10 minutes." (something like that)

And, I did promptly completed their 10 minutes questionnaire.
Tangerine received all my rating as "Poor" and "Will not recommend to my friends".
In the Comments section, I stated, that savings account interest rate should be the same for all of their customers.

Probably because of my response, they offered me only 2.95% in October 2016, not 3.00% or 3.50% as it was before my rating them as "Poor".

December 5, 2016
4:42 pm
NorthernRaven
Moderator
Moderators
Forum Posts: 349
Member Since:
August 4, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Winnie said
In the Comments section, I stated, that savings account interest rate should be the same for all of their customers.

Everyone says this, but no-one suggests how it might be achieved. Tangerine has, say, $15 billion in HISA accounts earning 0.8%. They aren't going to bump everyone up to, say, 2% - it would cost them a fortune (say, $150 million/year). So what choice do they have, except to do some sort of differential rates. You either do it with "new customers, or new money" restrictions, or Tangerine's approach of data mining and targeted offers where they thing it will do the most good. Obviously the latter will produce frustration and more active customers will have to try gaming a somewhat opaque system, but presumably Tangerine thinks it won't hurt them.

December 5, 2016
5:18 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2967
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@moneyhelp- don't worry about "window". It's just a metaphor. My creative writing urge took over. I was thinking about the "cashier's cage" of yore and the more modern bullet-proof? plexiglass which separate us from the money in the modern bank.
You've got my drift.

Different people have had different experiences with similar strategies, and we have not been able to conclude that there is any reliable method of getting a superior rate. Some take their money out and still get good offers; others do the same and get nothing (such as me). This leads Bill to his speculation that it might actually just be matter of luck. I think not, because then it would be like a scratch-n-save, and they would be urging you to check and see what your offer was, which they never do. Threats work sometimes but not all the time (and I think are working less well lately). There is also the unanswered question as to how much the bank needs on deposit at any given moment, and what they're willing to offer in order to get it, which could vary a lot.
Using additional bank products will also have some kind of influence. If you read the annual reports of these organizations, including the credit unions, it is quite clear that their goal is to get you in the front door, even if that involves a loss leader, and then to move you into other kinds of products, the ultimate being to invest in their mutual funds, open an investment account, and so on. If you clearly have a lot of money and fail to take the next step, they will lose interest in you sooner or later. So, you can max out and put 500K in at 3% but you must recognize that it's a promo, and is not going to last forever. Take what you can get while you can get it. If you get tired of that game, or they get tired of you, move on.

Please write your comments in the forum.