Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Email this3:45 pm
October 21, 2013
Offline
The risk with PC (under 100k) is if you ALSO have accounts at CIBC. CIBC + PC together have 100K coverage with CDIC.
These marketing schemes are confusing and camouflage what the coverage really is. Anyone who has questions should phone CDIC for details.
6:12 pm
September 11, 2013
Offline
Brian, maybe the banks are in better shape than in 1929, but there are other factors too - e.g. the entire western world is getting deeper into debt every minute, debt that no-one can figure out how it will ever be paid off, sort of like Germany after WW I with its reparation payments (and we know what that led to). Depressions likely never happen exactly for the same reasons as last time.
dentgal, you mention ZAG but it's at .8%, not 2.5%. And Oaken is paying 1.75 too.
In general, I guess the new tactic for Tangerine, etc is to be random, unpredictable and not uniform (i.e. treat some customers differently than others). As I've said before, we are disloyal, so they can play the game too. Plus probably only a small % of their clients are like folks on this forum - I know a number of people who just put their money in Tangerine or PCF and leave it there, I'm not even sure they know about the promotions unless one is directed right at them. I'm not sure what the average balance is but I'm guessing a large % of their clients don't have enough on deposit to worry about a percent here or there.
12:59 am
October 21, 2013
Offline
Bill, I am not easily convinced that Tang is being random etc. They can't run a business successfully and offer rates as high as 3% in the current climate on the basis of random approaches to customers. If it were that, they would be better off to run a contest.
However, we know that they are not telling us their criteria, and also that it's very likely that criteria change as they refine their approaches.
Everyone who posts here is not telling us their whole story of investment with Tang. Nor should they, unless they want to. Tang knows more about each of us than we know about each other, and is making algorithm-based decisions based on what they know about us. They'd be very foolish to do anything else, it seems to me.
It will be very interesting to see what they offer you and me on Dec 20!
I would also surmise that most of Tang's clients have smaller investments there. First, because the vast majority of people do not have 100,000+ to leave in a bank. Second, because people who have a substantial amount of money in cash usually have other investments as well, and it is more likely that they will hold more of their cash in a brokerage account etc. - this is what their "advisors" will tell them to do, and they will find it more convenient.
I think what they are after is the accounts that are growing, saving, perhaps making direct deposits to the chequing side, and, yes, staying put would be nice. But they were also giving us extra if we told them we knew where we could get a better rate. Better rate harder to find now. I still like Hubert's 1-yr GIC though, as it is cashable by me but not by them, i.e. I can move it to "greener pastures"
if I want but am assured of a rate for a year.
8:58 pm
April 6, 2013
Offline
Brian said
The bottom line is that CDIC coverage is $100K - so for deposits up to that amount, there is really no difference in safety for depositors between Tang and PCF no matter who issues the accounts.
...
Agreed. For deposits totaling less than the CDIC limit of $100,000, there is no need to worry.
...
Norman - I find it hard to conclude that Tang is not as secure as PCF simply because PCF deposits are handled by CIBC. Tang is a 100% owned subsidiary of Scotia and all these "banks" are monitored by OSFI which should help to protect depositors.
The monitoring does help protect depositors. But, in the rare instances when it is enough and the deposit is over the $100,000 CDIC limit, the deposit issuer's assets determines the risk.
PC Financial deposits are deposits with CIBC. So, they are backed by the assets of CIBC. CIBC's balance sheet is publicly available as it is a publicly traded corporation. CIBC has a P-1 rating on its short term debt and Aa3 on its long term debt.
Tangerine deposits are deposits of Tangerine Bank. No visibility on Tangerine Bank's assets. No ratings on Tangerine Bank's debt since the Bank of Nova Scotia bought them.
Maybe the risk is higher. Maybe the risk is similar. Maybe the risk is lower! There's not enough information available to assess that.
9:12 pm
April 6, 2013
Offline
Loonie said
Bill, I am not easily convinced that Tang is being random etc. They can't run a business successfully and offer rates as high as 3% in the current climate on the basis of random approaches to customers. If it were that, they would be better off to run a contest.
...
I think Tangerine could sustain paying as high as 3% per annum to certain depositors. It depends on what they do with the money.
It could be sustainable if the money is used to fund their Tangerine MasterCard. They would receive interchange of around 2% on each charge.
If all the cardholders paid off their balance each month and kept using their card, Tangerine would receive 2% per month while paying 3% per annum to some and 0.8% per annum to the rest!
If cardholders carried balance, Tangerine would receive 2% up front plus 19.95% per annum interest.
10:24 pm
October 21, 2013
Offline
During almost the entirety of 2015, Tangerine did not offer a credit card, yet they offered 3% to a lot of people for about 5 months.
I find it sad to think that some poor fellow who has not been able to get out of credit card hell is funding my 3%. On the other hand, when said debtor requires gov't subsidies in his old age, it'll be people like me who are paying for it, so perhaps I don't feel so sad after all!
3:05 pm
June 29, 2013
Offline
Norman1 said
Tangerine deposits are deposits of Tangerine Bank. No visibility on Tangerine Bank's assets. No ratings on Tangerine Bank's debt since the Bank of Nova Scotia bought them.
Maybe the risk is higher. Maybe the risk is similar. Maybe the risk is lower! There's not enough information available to assess that.
Norman - the Tangerine Financial Statements are on the OSFI site - Balance Sheet is relatively simple and straight forward for a "smaller" bank having "only" $40 Billion in Assets.
Note its major asset is Loans to other Banks and Financial Institutions and in fact it appears that Tang has no debts other than Deposits owed to its Depositors.Tangerine is obviously having no problem loaning out its funds to other banks and financial institutions probably to finance credit cards, lines of credit, bridge loans etc.
Loonie - no need to feel guilty - you are not likely being funded re your 3% by some poor fellow - your 3% is more likely being funded by profits earned by Tangerine loaning out its cash deposits to other banks and financial institutions at more than 3%. And now with their new credit card this will allow them to increase their interest revenue significantly - appears that Tangerine can easily cover their high interest promos in future - although likely we won't see any 3% promos with the Bank of Canada now hinting at negative interest rates (as is now the case in some European countries) - interest rates for Canadian savers/investors are not looking great for 2016!
10:33 am
December 8, 2015
Offline
Thanks to this forum I was able to get 2% for 6 months at Tangerine.
We moved all our cash into a Tangerine Account in July to get the 2.4% bonus rate that ended November 30. On December 1, the interest rate dropped to 0.8%
Looking on the internet for a better rate, I discovered highinterestsavings.ca and specifically this forum on Tangerine. I called Tangerine a few days ago and explained that I had read that some people had been offered 2.4% until February 29, 2016 as long as the balance in their accounts remained at the balance of November 30.
The agent said that as I had not been included in that offer she would see what the best rate was that she could offer to me at this time. She came back with an offer of 2% for 6 months, which I was very happy to accept.
Thanks again to this forum for helping me get a much better rate than Tangerine’s standard rate of 0.8%.
11:44 am
February 14, 2014
Offline
I just called Tangerine and explained that I did not get the offer that several other people have received (2.4% until end of Feb, or 2% for 6 months), and was told several times that there no promo offers available for my account. I told them that the 0.8% was not attractive and that I would be moving my funds elsewhere. The agent asked, "Is there anything else I can help you with today?".
2:00 pm
October 21, 2013
Offline
Do you sometimes get the feeling that you are talking to a machine, Rick?
So, I am sure you will be moving your money out of Tangerine, at least for now. Let us know if they come back with any carrots for you.
Can you think of any reason why you might not have been one of their favoured customers right now? It's really hard to read how their minds work. I am getting curiouser and curiouser as to what they will do with those of us who have the other 3% offer which ends later this month. Ah, the suspense of it all!...
FYI, I was just doing some year-end calculations and discovered that, overall, in the course of the year, with various promo offers, my return from Tang savings was not much different than accounts at other institutions which consistently offered highest rates, although I did miss one of Tang's promos. Tang made me work harder for it though: trying to figure out what offers really meant, negotiating with people on the phone etc.
2:07 pm
February 14, 2014
Offline
I deposited $230k for the promo back in August, but removed $44k in early November. My only guess is that it's because I removed some money during the promo. I doubt they'd ever admit to that though.
Did anybody here who received the automatic notification of the 2.4% until the end of February remove any money during the previous promo time?
10:33 am
September 11, 2013
Offline
I'm coming off the 180-day 3% promo in a week, I've received no messages from them, nothing when I sign on to my account, so I was getting ready to start a series of transfers to empty the account but I thought I'd try a call first. I told them I noticed new accounts are getting 2.4% for 6 months per their website, do they have anything for folks like me who are coming to the end of a promo? He said call back a day after my promo period ends and they'll see what they can do at that point.
12:28 pm
May 28, 2013
Offline
I'm not waiting for Tangerine to make a move re monies I put in at 3% for six months. I pulled out $250K yesterday to move back to Hubert at 1.8%. If Tangerine comes up with a new attractive offer, I may move all or part of it back. Meanwhile, my balance as of Dec. 19 will be low, so they cannot hold all of my money hostage against higher rates, in case any new offer is based on keeping all of one's balance as of Dec. 19 in the account for many more months.
I expect Presiden't Choice to also come up with a new scheme soon, as these two continue to compete against each other.
7:23 pm
December 12, 2015
Offline
Just called Tang and requested the 2.4% rate, but they offered me the 2% for 6 months, no minimum balance required. Hard to beat for me here in QC as we cannot access Zag or PC. Was perviously a loyal ING investor but pulled out in favour of Oaken when their rates started dropping badly. They have not emailed me any offers, both I got only upon request, and not the highest rate (ie, they declined me the 3% this summer but allowed me 2.4%). Wonder why this new trend to promos...lacking funds due to bad rates? And why targeting only certain people? The rep told me it was random.
7:44 am
December 13, 2015
Offline
Saver-Mom, if you're from QC, you should consider LaCapitale, 2.75% until the end of January, both in Savings and TFSA. Exclusive to Québec residents, since the start of November. It's here https://www.lacapitale.com/en
2:26 pm
October 21, 2013
Offline
I can't believe Tang's decisions are "random", but the rep may not know how they choose, or may have been told to say it's random so as to stop people asking questions!
3:03 pm
December 8, 2015
Offline
I recently read that one way to test out on-line marketing strategies was to divide your customers into a number of groups and give each group a different offer. The results of this help you evaluate which strategies work best.
Perhaps we are part of an experiment being conducted by the marketing department.
But who really knows?
11:12 pm
October 21, 2013
Offline
Oh, yes, Tom, that's a tried-and-true marketing strategy. I'm sure it figures somewhere in their thinking, but unclear how it is being applied. I'm sure they're tracking the outcomes.
I would assume that their goal is to keep as much money consistently on deposit as possible without paying any more for it than necessary. So, for them, it ought to be a question of figuring out which offers are most likely to meet that need and to what extent they need to make them. Perhaps 'new money" from new customers is not coming in as fast as they'd like so they must work with us "old money" people..
I may have mentioned this earlier but I have calculated that the interest I received for year 2015 from Tangerine, including promos, compares favourably to other high-interest accounts and 1-yr GICs.
8:08 am
September 11, 2013
Offline
Marketing is increasingly targeted to individuals, as we leave a pretty detailed electronic trail wherever we go. Perhaps Tangerine's algorithm is based on our individual, unique "profile" (history of financial transactions, how much money we appear to have, age, etc) and when the agent pulls up your account screen it tells her what to offer or tell each client based on that. Maybe the screen just shows a green or red indicator, who knows? Or maybe it really is random - if you want people to stay interested in you be unpredictable (sometimes)! Plus the vast majority of people aren't doing what we do here, they just keep their money pretty much where it is, so they're probably not too worried about losing a few of those who call in, if it comes to it. The real money is made from those who aren't paying attention. Guess I'm saying don't expect them to care if you say you'll take your money elsewhere.
4:11 pm
October 21, 2013
Offline
If it's truly random, then it's essentially a contest. You put in your name, and hope for a prize. If that's what it turns out to be for me, then I can't be bothered. So far, they have always given me the promo, but if that changes, then I am not interested in a contest or lottery.
We may be a minority, but we are very noisy, especially when not satisfied.
"Buzz" also matters, very much, in the marketing world. I would go so far as to say that we are trend-setters. So, they would be foolish to ignore us. We were giving them very negative reviews for a while, then the promos became more intense - and the competition.
I make a point of not giving them all my cash, so they have no idea how much money I have. They only think they know - or may think they know.
They might be smart to allow more than 3 external links, because then they would know more about where their competition is and client's behaviour.
Please write your comments in the forum.