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Add new entries to the forum for the following Banks/FIs
April 3, 2021
4:29 pm
Alexandre
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Norman1 said
I think that bank/financial institution column should be renamed as brand.

The brand is important as that is what people know the deposits by...

The issuers of the deposit can be shown in a separate column.  

Renaming bank column to brand column is excellent suggestion I support, too, but is separate column, for FI behind the brand, really necessary?
That information can be provided similarly how it is now, under profile web page: when I click on Motive Financial from the HISA Chart, for example, this is what its profile says:

Motive Financial was formerly Canadian Direct Financial until 2017.
Website: https://www.motivefinancial.com
Headquarters: Edmonton, Alberta
Parent company: Canadian Western Bank

April 3, 2021
4:53 pm
Bill
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"Parent company: Canadian Western Bank". That is incorrect, CWB is not the parent company of Motive, in fact Motive is a division of CWB and thus is in fact part of the same company. Motive and CWB are "in" the same company.

The problem is many don't differentiate the terms parent company, subsidiary, division, brand name entity, etc, they just use the terms (improperly) interchangeably and thus end up confused.

Parent company is irrelevant to CDIC coverage. Any other company, be it parent or not, has its own, separate CDIC limit. The fact that BNS is the parent of Tangerine is as relevant to Tangerine's CDIC coverage as the fact that Royal Bank exists, i.e. no relevance.

April 3, 2021
10:30 pm
smayer97
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Bill said
"Parent company: Canadian Western Bank". That is incorrect, CWB is not the parent company of Motive, in fact Motive is a division of CWB and thus is in fact part of the same company. Motive and CWB are "in" the same company.

The problem is many don't differentiate the terms parent company, subsidiary, division, brand name entity, etc, they just use the terms (improperly) interchangeably and thus end up confused.

Parent company is irrelevant to CDIC coverage. Any other company, be it parent or not, has its own, separate CDIC limit. The fact that BNS is the parent of Tangerine is as relevant to Tangerine's CDIC coverage as the fact that Royal Bank exists, i.e. no relevance.  

I did not realize that was there. Though not as ideal, I'd be ok for that Profile info to be updated, as long as something is added to the HISA chart to point out that info is there.

April 4, 2021
1:36 am
RetirEd
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This could all be very confusing. Given that the principal (if not only) need for this info is to understand Deposit Insurance limits, why not simply label the info "Deposit Insurance Limits," annotated with limits shared with other entities? Yes, messes like TD or CIBC would need lots of notes, so rather than a column in the main chart trying to show all the info, it could be a pop-up like Rate History?
RetirEd

April 4, 2021
2:11 am
Loonie
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This is why I suggested a sticky, perhaps to be at the top of each FI's subforum, where it's easier to notice. I can't envision how all the necessary info could be included in the chart.
Various other important pieces of info could be added to a sticky from time to time, such as transfer fees, whether they offer RIFs, joint accts etc.

April 4, 2021
4:54 am
Bill
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Not just Motive but lots of the "parent company" notations under the banks / credit union profiles on this site are incorrect. The term is used (improperly) here when an entity is a separate division within a company or even just when it's another trade name under which a company operates. A better term might be "CDIC/DICO etc insured entity name", off the top of my head, though I'm sure others can improve on that. Maybe "T5 slip issuer name" would get the idea across. The main idea is that, for example, there is no such fi or company as Hubert, it's just another part of or name for Sunova. Sort of like Snoop Dogg /Calvin Broadus.

April 4, 2021
6:57 am
Doug
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Loonie said
This is why I suggested a sticky, perhaps to be at the top of each FI's subforum, where it's easier to notice. I can't envision how all the necessary info could be included in the chart.
Various other important pieces of info could be added to a sticky from time to time, such as transfer fees, whether they offer RIFs, joint accts etc.  

Yeah, we have to be mindful of not making the chart too cluttered. A sticky notice on the financial institution's forum or just the profile page would probably be the right approach.

Cheers,
Doug

April 4, 2021
7:02 am
Alexandre
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There is going to be more entrants to HISA Chart like Neo Financial.
Take a look at KOHO, they offer Save (a.k.a. Savings) account with 1.2% interest (as of 2021/04/04).
They have account web access.

All interest-bearing accounts are offered by Canadian ShareOwner Investments Inc

I am not promoting them here and for now don't plan to open an account with them, this is just to show that Neo Financial will not be the last one for consideration.

April 4, 2021
7:50 am
Bill
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Re Koho their FAQ say: "As a user of the KOHO Save feature, we’ll open an account for you with Canadian ShareOwner Investments Inc. (ShareOwner). ShareOwner is a member of the Investment Industry Regulatory Organization of Canada (IIROC).
Is my money protected with KOHO Save?
All cash balances from your KOHO Save account(s) are held in trust at a Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation (CDIC) (https://www.cdic.ca/about-us/) member institution....."

They also refer to partnering with VISA and Peoples Trust.

Does not appear to be like the usual HISA that the chart here lists.

April 4, 2021
8:48 am
smayer97
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RetirEd said
This could all be very confusing. Given that the principal (if not only) need for this info is to understand Deposit Insurance limits, why not simply label the info "Deposit Insurance Limits," annotated with limits shared with other entities? Yes, messes like TD or CIBC would need lots of notes, so rather than a column in the main chart trying to show all the info, it could be a pop-up like Rate History?
RetirEd  

But that is why I highlighted that "...the intent is simply listing that which is related to the insurance [CDIC, DICO, DGCM, etc]... that is the context I would deem most useful and relevant." and "After all, these [data about who holds legal financial insurance liability] are all critical in the decision making as to where people choose to place the funds, and the more they have to place, the more these data matter."

So for example, the fact that Scotiabank is whole owner of Tangerine or B2B Bank being owned by Laurentian Bank is irrelevant in that context, although nice to know, but Simplii being a division or brand of CIBC and therefore aggregated with CIBC or Motive being a division or brand of CDW is VERY relevant.

April 4, 2021
12:15 pm
LK
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There is a difference between "subsidiary" and "division".

For example, Tangerine is a subsidiary of BNS (is owned by BNS), but is its own legal entity. So it is independently covered by CDIC, separate from BNS. See: https://www.tangerine.ca/en/about-us/cdic/

Compare a division, which is part of the other legal entity. For example, Simplii is a division of CIBC, so is not covered separate from CIBC. Divisions are just different names for marketing.

I think the simplest thing is for each person to check the CDIC list, as the official list, when they are contemplating opening an account with a FI. Having this forum summarize CDIC coverage could result in errors in the event of the official CDIC list changes over time. But, of course, that is a decision for the admins.

CDIC's official list: https://www.cdic.ca/your-coverage/list-of-member-institutions/

April 4, 2021
1:26 pm
Vatox
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Lol, just go with a column called “Shared CDIC Coverage” and if there are any, just post the acronyms.

April 4, 2021
4:08 pm
Loonie
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re: KOHO. I don't want to digress too far, but trust accounts are insured separately by CDIC, so should not affect insurance on what you hold in another kind of account at same FI.

An issue with "Shared CDIC coverage" column would be that it doesn't distinguish FIs that have more than one CDIC member under same brand, e.g. Oaken. It would also be confusing if Peoples Trust and Peoples Bank share one line.

I honestly don't think it's possible to contain all the permutations and combinations that people would want to know about in a chart.

April 4, 2021
4:41 pm
Bill
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I don't think it's that complex. For example, Home Trust and Home Bank each have separate CDIC coverage as they're separate corporations, so they should each be listed separately. The fact they happen to be related is really irrelevant. It would be easy to show 2 separate listings, "Home Bank operating as Oaken Financial" & "Home Trust operating as Oaken Financial" to show the two separate CDIC-insured fi's one can choose when having accounts and GICs with Oaken (2 people can have up to 6 accounts with Oaken to maximize CDIC coverage, if they want). Same with others, e.g. "Sunova Credit Union operating as Hubert Financial", "CIBC operating as Simplii Financial", etc. For those that have no distinct operating name you just have to show their name, e.g. Tangerine Bank.

April 4, 2021
4:55 pm
Vatox
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Bill said
I don't think it's that complex. For example, Home Trust and Home Bank each have separate CDIC coverage as they're separate corporations, so they should each be listed separately. The fact they happen to be related is really irrelevant. It would be easy to show 2 separate listings, "Home Bank operating as Oaken Financial" & "Home Trust operating as Oaken Financial" to show the two separate CDIC-insured fi's one can choose when having accounts and GICs with Oaken (2 people can have up to 6 accounts with Oaken to maximize CDIC coverage, if they want). Same with others, e.g. "Sunova Credit Union operating as Hubert Financial", "CIBC operating as Simplii Financial", etc. For those that have no distinct operating name you just have to show their name, e.g. Tangerine Bank.  

That’s exactly my thought! And anything missing from the chart will most certainly be mentioned in the Forums. This site isn’t meant to be 100% accurate at all times anyways, it’s just supposed to help you with knowledge of what’s available.

EDIT: and if space is an issue, acronyms can be used and a column link can be provided to a page describing what every single one is, in full.

April 4, 2021
5:23 pm
Vatox
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You would need two columns for this. One for “shared CDIC coverage totalling $100k” and one for “multiple CDIC coverage of $100k each”

Edit: and if the chart is already too full, you have an existing column called “CU” and that can be used to add CDIC as a value for those that apply. And those values can be clickable links to a page with all of this info. Just change the column heading to “CU or CDIC” in a stacked display of 3 words.

April 4, 2021
5:29 pm
Doug
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Alexandre said
There is going to be more entrants to HISA Chart like Neo Financial.
Take a look at KOHO, they offer Save (a.k.a. Savings) account with 1.2% interest (as of 2021/04/04).
They have account web access.

All interest-bearing accounts are offered by Canadian ShareOwner Investments Inc

I am not promoting them here and for now don't plan to open an account with them, this is just to show that Neo Financial will not be the last one for consideration.  

Koho could not be added to the HISA chart as it fails this criterion, "must not be held in broker “book-entry”/nominee form; must be held in one’s own name."

With regard to adding Neo Financial's Neo Savings Account, yes, we could add that, but we really should be adding it as the Neo Savings Account of Concentra Bank, which is originated from Neo Financial Inc. as essentially a deposit broker. In effect, Concentra Bank has two HISA products paying the same interest rate, one is the Neo Savings Account offered through Neo Financial's web-based online and mobile platform and the other is its own in-house High Interest Savings Account product paying the same (currently) interest rate.

I think that would make clear who the deposit insurance is through. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 5, 2021
1:06 am
smayer97
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Bill said
I don't think it's that complex. ...  

I agree.

Vatox said
That’s exactly my thought! And anything missing from the chart will most certainly be mentioned in the Forums. This site isn’t meant to be 100% accurate at all times anyways, it’s just supposed to help you with knowledge of what’s available.

EDIT: and if space is an issue, acronyms can be used and a column link can be provided to a page describing what every single one is, in full.  

I sort of agree... I think.

I do think that this site serves as a central hub of collective knowledge. No it does not need to be 100% accurate all the time.

I'm not sure if I am missing something but I do not think that this is complicated to maintain here. It is mostly a one time effort (and I do not think it is super onerous) and it is not very dynamic.

As I suggested, as legend somewhere on the page could be used if coding or abbrevitions are needed. And links deferring to the respective insurance sites can be added on the page for anyone to easily check as needed.

.... OR ....

since I now understand this better (and I now know where to look), maybe all that is needed is just a link to the respective insurance sites with a note reminding visitors here to check the respective insurance coverage for aggregate vs individual coverage (or whatever terminology is best) with some basic explanation. That would avoid any maintenance on this site but would educate users here to be better aware of these relationships.

BUT I think that a better naming of the column(s) is warranted or to make the names of FIs vs branding clearer... e.g. Hubert should be listed as Sunova/Hubert, CWB/Motive, etc as appropriate.

April 5, 2021
4:54 am
Alexandre
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Doug said

Concentra Bank has two HISA products paying the same interest rate, one is the Neo Savings Account offered through Neo Financial's web-based online and mobile platform and the other is its own in-house High Interest Savings Account product paying the same (currently) interest rate.

Do you have link to Concentra Bank HISA? When I visit their main web page, all I see is Mortgages and GIC.

April 5, 2021
5:46 am
Nehpets
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Alexandre said
Do you have link to Concentra Bank HISA? When I visit their main web page, all I see is Mortgages and GIC.  

At this time, according to Concentra CSRs, the rate for the HISA is not posted publicly. The HISA rate is only available to clients who currently hold a Concentra GIC.

The rate is posted in the "details" of the HISA, on the online access, in the same place one would view GIC details.

According to CSRs, if/when Concentra offers their own HISA to the public, the rate would be shown on the Concentra rate page.

Stephen

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