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Mobile Cheque Deposits
July 25, 2019
7:37 pm
Loonie
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In the latter case, then, the hold period at Motus is remarkably short - only 3 days!sf-surprised

P.S. The pull I initiated at Motus on the 17th just cleared within the last 2 hours (by 22:30h Eastern); total of 8 calendar days: 3 business days for transfer, 3 for clearing, and 2 for weekend.
A pull I initiated at EQ on the 18th has not yet cleared and I don't expect it to until tomorrow evening.
Thus, EQ is not any faster than Motus, probably the same except when Motus is a day slow with the transfer, which is not most of the time and will probably improve as time goes by and they catch up.

July 25, 2019
9:12 pm
Norman1
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Doug said

… Even if not, there may be a commitment within the Payments Canada system rules that stipulates when availability is to occur on such funds transfer EFTs.

Payment Canada rules are silent on account deposit holds. That's because deposit holds are a matter between a financial institution and its clients. There are no holds between financial institutions in Retail System used to clear cheques, direct deposits, and preauthorized debits.

According to Payments Canada: Retail System, the direct clearer involved in submitting a deposit (including paper cheques and electronic preauthorized debits) is actually credited the deposit, free and clear, the next morning:

Electronic payments clearing

All processes for the exchange and clearing of electronic payments occurs electronically without the exchange of physical payments.

Each direct clearer enters the total volume and value of transactions for which it is owed funds into the Retail System. These figures are combined with the totals for cheques and other paper-based payment items to determine the net balances due to and from each direct clearer to effect settlement on the books of the Bank of Canada the following morning.

July 26, 2019
8:34 am
Doug
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Norman1 said

Doug said

… Even if not, there may be a commitment within the Payments Canada system rules that stipulates when availability is to occur on such funds transfer EFTs.

Payment Canada rules are silent on account deposit holds. That's because deposit holds are a matter between a financial institution and its clients. There are no holds between financial institutions in Retail System used to clear cheques, direct deposits, and preauthorized debits.

According to Payments Canada: Retail System, the direct clearer involved in submitting a deposit (including paper cheques and electronic preauthorized debits) is actually credited the deposit, free and clear, the next morning:

Electronic payments clearing

All processes for the exchange and clearing of electronic payments occurs electronically without the exchange of physical payments.

Each direct clearer enters the total volume and value of transactions for which it is owed funds into the Retail System. These figures are combined with the totals for cheques and other paper-based payment items to determine the net balances due to and from each direct clearer to effect settlement on the books of the Bank of Canada the following morning.

  

Thanks, Norman. But there must be some sort of implicit agreement between financial institutions with respect to pulled EFT funds transfer maximum hold times, to which they all oblige. Meridian Credit Union may be the outlier here with respect to their processing of EFT deposits and any hold times. Another reason (add to pile!) to avoid Meridian/Motus!

Cheers,
Doug

July 26, 2019
6:39 pm
Norman1
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Doug said

Thanks, Norman. But there must be some sort of implicit agreement between financial institutions with respect to pulled EFT funds transfer maximum hold times, to which they all oblige. …

The agreement is that the negotiating financial institution receives the funds from the drawee institution, free and clear, the next morning, when it submits the pre-authorized debit (PAD) into the clearing system. They also agree the PAD can be returned by the drawee financial institution, for various reason, up 90 days later and the funds clawed back.

How the negotiating financial institution deals with risk of the PAD being returned and the funds clawed back is up to it.

July 26, 2019
7:09 pm
Doug
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Norman1 said

Doug said

Thanks, Norman. But there must be some sort of implicit agreement between financial institutions with respect to pulled EFT funds transfer maximum hold times, to which they all oblige. …

The agreement is that the negotiating financial institution receives the funds from the drawee institution, free and clear, the next morning, when it submits the pre-authorized debit (PAD) into the clearing system. They also agree the PAD can be returned by the drawee financial institution, for various reason, up 90 days later and the funds clawed back.

How the negotiating financial institution deals with risk of the PAD being returned and the funds clawed back is up to it.  

I'm aware of all that Norman, but one minor correction. The 90 day returned payment rule does not apply to the type of funds transfer PAD to which I'm recurring, at least those sort of sporadic ones we issue when we submit an electronic "pull" request in online banking. That's my understanding anyway.

Cheers,
Doug

July 26, 2019
11:13 pm
Norman1
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Doug said

I'm aware of all that Norman, but one minor correction. The 90 day returned payment rule does not apply to the type of funds transfer PAD to which I'm recurring, at least those sort of sporadic ones we issue when we submit an electronic "pull" request in online banking. That's my understanding anyway.

According to Appendix III of Payment Canada Rule H1, 90 days is allowed for Funds Transfer PAD's to be returned for four reasons.

For electronic Funds Transfer PAD's with transaction type 650 (Inter-FI Funds Transfer Debit), the 90 days is still allowed for one of those four reasons.

Not every financial institution uses transaction type 650 (Inter-FI Funds Transfer Debit) on their electronic pulls. My pulls originating from Hubert have type 450 (Misc. Payments)!

July 27, 2019
7:35 am
file
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Motive was the same way using 450, until 2-3 weeks ago. Now they're properly type 650.

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