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Mobile Cheque Deposits
July 22, 2019
2:28 pm
3oakwest
Ontario, Canada
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I just made my first mobile deposit to Motus and it is on hold...

I called the help line and was told that all cheque deposits are on hold for eight days.

Is this normal? I have other banks that do not hold anything. Possibly could it be that we're all new customers and they want to have experience with us?

July 22, 2019
2:48 pm
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
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threeoakwest said
I just made my first mobile deposit to Motus and it is on hold...

I called the help line and was told that all cheque deposits are on hold for eight days.

Is this normal? I have other banks that do not hold anything. Possibly could it be that we're all new customers and they want to have experience with us?  

Yes, this is one of my three main criticisms with Motus Bank. They don't have access to funds/cash back/deposit release limits whereby they exempt the first portion of your new deposit (i.e., EFT or cheque) from holds. They hold everything for every client, regardless of business or creditworthiness.

Until they relax their credit risk policies and improve their EFT transaction posting times, I've rated Motus Bank a "strong avoid." sf-cool

You can do better, albeit not on rates, with Alterna Bank and Motive Financial (you can beat Motus Bank with Motive's HISA).

Cheers,
Doug

July 22, 2019
3:20 pm
Nehpets
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threeoakwest said
I just made my first mobile deposit to Motus and it is on hold...... for eight days.
Is this normal?  

It seems to be normal practice for Meridian and now for its subsidiary, Motus.

As Doug alludes to, unless they change their policy, to be more in line with other FI's such as those referred to by Doug, Motus will be on my avoid list as well.

I currently have term deposits with Meridian, but when those mature, I will be severing my relationship with them.

Holds on deposits are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to irritations and incompetency and plain old poor service from Meridian...up with I will not put....sf-frown

Stephen

July 22, 2019
5:03 pm
3oakwest
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Thanks for your responses Doug & Nehpets.

I'm getting discouraged with the behaviour from both Meridian and Motus.
I'll stay for the duration of the 5 months at 2.85% and the $300.00 for an ongoing monthly payment, then see what's happened as far as changes etc. I still have a feeling that rates will decrease after a few months.

I do have and Alterna account as well as EQ.

July 22, 2019
5:13 pm
MapleOne
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I'm a bit puzzled here...

Are you not using Motus because of the high savings rate?
If so are your deposits not marked as savings and therefore the hold should be irrelevant.

I use simplii for my every day banking and there are no holds for me. When I deposit to motus or similar I am chasing interest rates and the hold time is really not a great concern for cheques. I would probably only deposit a larger cheque anyways but putting it there I would expect to be saving it and therefore not requiring the funds immediately.

So for chasing interest rated motus is a great option, for every day banking if you need your funds immediately the big banks are probably a better option. You can keep just what you need in the big banks and go from there.

July 22, 2019
5:35 pm
Loonie
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The problem with long holds is not always whether or not you are going to write a cheque on them.
The issue comes up if you want to transfer the money to a better-paying bank or CU or to GIC. You also need to ask if you will be paid interest while it is on hold or in lengthy transit (as with Motus); usually yes.

I initiated a pull to Motus from TD on the evening of July 16. It is now four full banking days later and it still hasn't shown up, and then I will have to wait for the hold to lift. I expect/hope it will show up later this evening or at midnight. Motus says 3 days but sometimes it takes 4. It makes for a lot of annoying extra work monitoring these things to make sure they go through.

These things may not matter to you.

July 23, 2019
7:04 pm
Norman1
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Loonie said

I initiated a pull to Motus from TD on the evening of July 16. It is now four full banking days later and it still hasn't shown up, and then I will have to wait for the hold to lift. I expect/hope it will show up later this evening or at midnight. Motus says 3 days but sometimes it takes 4. It makes for a lot of annoying extra work monitoring these things to make sure they go through.

It sounds suspiciously like one is not actually initiating a pull in Motus' system.

Instead, some kind of message is being generated and queued up. Then, some agent has to read the messages and actually type a request into their system for pre-authorized debits and direct deposits!

July 23, 2019
7:11 pm
Doug
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Norman1 said

Loonie said

I initiated a pull to Motus from TD on the evening of July 16. It is now four full banking days later and it still hasn't shown up, and then I will have to wait for the hold to lift. I expect/hope it will show up later this evening or at midnight. Motus says 3 days but sometimes it takes 4. It makes for a lot of annoying extra work monitoring these things to make sure they go through.

It sounds suspiciously like one is not actually initiating a pull in Motus' system.

Instead, some kind of message is being generated and queued up. Then, some agent has to read the messages and actually type a request into their system for pre-authorized debits and direct deposits!  

Meridian and Motus seem to just have a woefully outdated, and possibly manual, EFT processing system. We've had dozens of verified reports on this forum and RedFlagDeals forum now from Meridian and Motus members. Their EFTs take at least 3, and sometimes 4 or 5, extra business days to post to one's account (DR or CR). @Loonie, did it show up yet?

Cheers,
Doug

July 23, 2019
7:32 pm
Loonie
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Yes, the transfer showed up late in the evening of the 22nd.
I have thoutgh too that there must be some human interference going on because of the inconsistencies in how long it takes. But they always seem to show up in the evenings, no matter what time of day I initiated them.

If someone is manually typing it up, then that leaves room for error, which I wouldn't like.

The most frustrating part for me is that you're in a kind of no man's land until it shows up as there is no evidence of the transfer on your transactions page or anywhere else except what you may have saved from time of transaction. Four days is too long to wait for the evidence - plus weekends and stats.

July 23, 2019
7:45 pm
Doug
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Loonie said
Yes, the transfer showed up late in the evening of the 22nd.
I have thoutgh too that there must be some human interference going on because of the inconsistencies in how long it takes. But they always seem to show up in the evenings, no matter what time of day I initiated them.

If someone is manually typing it up, then that leaves room for error, which I wouldn't like.

The most frustrating part for me is that you're in a kind of no man's land until it shows up as there is no evidence of the transfer on your transactions page or anywhere else except what you may have saved from time of transaction. Four days is too long to wait for the evidence - plus weekends and stats.  

Agreed, completely, Loonie. And the really crappy thing is for pulled deposits, you're losing out on those extra days' interest before your funds are even held for 6 business days.

If someone is manually posting the EFTs, they would likely be doing what we did at HSBC (though HSBC doesn't manually post EFTs, only those EFTs where there is a mismatch in name and account number and the system can't automatically post them, or those where the client has input the wrong transit or account number to their employer/biller, etc.) is we'd use a G/L Open Item suspense voucher that'd have a 6-7 digit serial number attached to it. If the amount debited/credited from the applicable G/L account didn't match the offsetting DR/CR to the client's account, it'd show up on a next day G/L Open Item Suspense Report with that serial number, so then we'd (well not the branch, but usually the Domestic Service Centre) would have to DR/CR the difference.

We used the same system for OTC (Over the Counter) deposits whereby we'd set a commercial client up on OTC and they'd bring in their cash, cheques, coin, and a deposit slip and we'd toss it and the CR portion of a G/L Open Item suspense voucher into a sealed night deposit box and drop it our night deposit. We'd use the DR portion of the G/L Open Item suspense voucher to debit our branch OTC G/L suspense account and if there were any discrepancies in the client's arithmetic or they shortchanged, or provided too much, their deposit, then our service provider, INTRIA Items (owned by CIBC), would DR/CR them for the difference. Saved a lot of time for the branch! And, it saved money for HSBC, too, since INTRIA Items pays their staff just above minimum wage.

I was ruthless at setting clients up on OTC. We even had one customer that would sell stuff every week at the farmer's market and come in with cash except she didn't make up a deposit slip (since you don't have to). So, I explained that we're using a new deposit processing system and gave her a supply of credit memos to write up her deposit totals, so I could bag her deposits and send them off to INTRIA. 😉

Cheers,
Doug

July 23, 2019
7:54 pm
Loonie
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FYI, it only takes another 3 days for the deposit to clear at motus, after it has been posted. So it's a total of 6-7 business days. This is similar to the total time at other FIs.

July 24, 2019
4:44 pm
3oakwest
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I sent an email to ask how long I should keep the cheque (usually from the big 5, we must keep them for about 5 days). Motus says to keep it for 90 days. Ridiculous!

They also said that after being a customer in good standing for 90 days, they would release the first $100.00 of the deposit after 5 days.

July 24, 2019
5:24 pm
Doug
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threeoakwest said
I sent an email to ask how long I should keep the cheque (usually from the big 5, we must keep them for about 5 days). Motus says to keep it for 90 days. Ridiculous!

They also said that after being a customer in good standing for 90 days, they would release the first $100.00 of the deposit after 5 days.  

Coast Capital Savings says that as well. It's because it could come back due to forged endorsement. It covers their butt by telling you to keep it. Practically speaking, though, you can safely shred it after 30 days, or even a week or two if you wanted. sf-cool

The first $100 availability thing after 90 days is a federally legislated minimum requirement. Most banks will actually give you the first $100 straight away, on day one, but the Access to Funds Regulations permit banks to waive that requirement for the first 90 days of account opening (which Motus Bank is taking full advantage of!). And if they told you after 5 days, instead of 6, you should remind them they aren't even living up to their obligations. They have to give access to the first $100 after 1 business day (the next business day), as per federal regulations. If they deny that, FCAC Commissioner can levy hefty fines.

Cheers,
Doug

July 24, 2019
6:46 pm
Loonie
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My question would be, five days after what?
It takes Motus 3 or 4 business days, depending on how fast they move, to even make the transfer. Then it takes 3 more business days to clear. I don't think they are doing you any favours by offering five days for some minimal access.

July 25, 2019
3:52 am
3oakwest
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In the case I referred to, the mobile deposit was actually posted, by Motus, to my checking account immediately. That is the way I've experienced it with any other bank I do mobile deposits to.

I still don't agree with the hold period and am getting much more disappointed with Motus.

July 25, 2019
4:13 pm
Loonie
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My experience is solely with laptop.

July 25, 2019
5:30 pm
Norman1
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Loonie said
My question would be, five days after what?

It takes Motus 3 or 4 business days, depending on how fast they move, to even make the transfer. Then it takes 3 more business days to clear. I don't think they are doing you any favours by offering five days for some minimal access.

The federal Access to Funds Regulations that Doug mentioned does not apply to electronic transfers.

Section 2 limits the application of the regulations to deposits of paper-based Canadian dollar cheques/drafts/money orders drawn on a branch in Canada:

Application

2 Sections 3 [Maximum Cheque Hold Period] and 4 [Availability of First $100] apply only with respect to paper-based cheques or other instruments deposited in Canada that are encoded with magnetic ink to allow for character recognition, are not damaged or mutilated such that they are unreadable by cheque clearing systems, are drawn on an institution’s branch located in Canada and are issued in Canadian dollars.

July 25, 2019
5:52 pm
Doug
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Norman1 said

Loonie said
My question would be, five days after what?

It takes Motus 3 or 4 business days, depending on how fast they move, to even make the transfer. Then it takes 3 more business days to clear. I don't think they are doing you any favours by offering five days for some minimal access.

The federal Access to Funds Regulations that Doug mentioned does not apply to electronic transfers.

Section 2 limits the application of the regulations to deposits of paper-based Canadian dollar cheques/drafts/money orders drawn on a branch in Canada:

Application

2 Sections 3 [Maximum Cheque Hold Period] and 4 [Availability of First $100] apply only with respect to paper-based cheques or other instruments deposited in Canada that are encoded with magnetic ink to allow for character recognition, are not damaged or mutilated such that they are unreadable by cheque clearing systems, are drawn on an institution’s branch located in Canada and are issued in Canadian dollars.

  

Thanks, Norman, I should've clarified that. They technically don't have to give us access to the first $100 on EFT deposits, but I think the maximum hold period for EFT transfers drawn on Canadian financial institutions (being 6 or 7 business days following the day of deposit) likely still applies. Even if not, there may be a commitment within the Payments Canada system rules that stipulates when availability is to occur on such funds transfer EFTs.

Cheers,
Doug

July 25, 2019
6:29 pm
Loonie
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How do you define "day of deposit" in this context?
Is it the date the customer makes their online request or the date the FI credits their account? (hold time being additional)?
For example, EQ credits it immediately, but Motus takes 3 or 4 days to do so. Which is the day of deposit?

July 25, 2019
7:02 pm
Doug
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Loonie said
How do you define "day of deposit" in this context?
Is it the date the customer makes their online request or the date the FI credits their account? (hold time being additional)?
For example, EQ credits it immediately, but Motus takes 3 or 4 days to do so. Which is the day of deposit?  

In the case of a paper-based cheque deposited via mobile banking app using remote deposit capture, the day of the deposit would be the day the customer made the deposit, if it was done before the bank's cut-off time (generally between 5-6 pm Eastern Time) and provided that the day was (i) a business day and (ii) not a statutory holiday.

Nevertheless, since remote deposit capture deposited cheques would be considered a non-face-to-face deposit, the first $100 applicability does not apply until the next business day (most banks make available the $100 by 11 am Pacific Time and 2 pm Eastern time).

Edit: As to your question, regarding Motus Bank, as Norman mentioned, for EFT deposits the Access to Funds Regulations don't apply (there's probably provisions in the Payments Canada System Rules, though, that govern this). In terms of what those Payments Canada rules are, officially, I'm not sure exactly, but it's likely the hold would start from the time Motus posts it to your account! Interestingly anomaly you've identified, Loonie! sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

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