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Ideal Savings Acc't Accessibility
November 25, 2016
1:31 pm
speedwagen
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I thought I'd share some info for those of you who might be considering signing-up with Ideal.

A lot of the questions that came up in a previous thread were left unanswered; part of the reason is that Ideal is just starting up and their frontline staff haven't been too well informed on some subjects. I've been in touch with their COO & CFO and although some of their answers weren't very straightforward, I was able to ascertain some of the info that was pertinent to me.

For starters, I'll begin by saying that they've set themselves up to be a 1-way street in terms of fund-flow. They've made it easy to send funds their way, but there are obstacles in place to pull funds out.

You have to either request a cheque, which can take a couple of weeks to get to you or you can request an AFT, which they process manually and can take several days to initiate and transmit and most of us are familiar with the delays involving ZAG & EQ in that regard. In addition to that, they have fees in place for either option.

Interestingly, they're set-up to accept EFT deposits that would be generated externally, but their system won't accept debit EFT's, which means that's not an option. They tried to skirt around that issue by trying to hilite what they can do, which tells me that they're aware of what you're asking, but would rather not divulge the answer unless you press for it.

In my opinion, you can happily collect your "high" interest, but you can expect delays in getting your money back. Just an opinion.

November 25, 2016
3:05 pm
Winnie
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Regarding transfers out from Ideal Savings.

If you will request an AFT, you must complete "Automated Funds Transfer-Out Form" for each transfer every time and pay $3 Automated Funds Transfer Out (AFT) fee.
Funds may only be transferred to one of the accounts they were deposited from (cheque Ideal Savings have on file).
The good news - no sending limits per transfer whatsoever.

If you will request a cheque, you must pay $10 cheque fee.

November 25, 2016
9:38 pm
Loonie
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As I recall, their T&C allow them to change fees at any time.
Thanks for the research comments.

November 26, 2016
9:48 am
Norman1
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Withdrawing money looks like a manual process. This is from their Forms & Agreement page:

Automated Funds Transfer-Out Form

  • Complete this form to have funds automatically transferred from your Ideal Savings account to an account at another financial institution
  • For one-time or recurring transfers
  • No sending limits
  • Funds may only be transferred to one of the accounts they were deposited from (cheque we have on file)
  • Originals can be sent by mail or scanned and emailed
  • Please allow five business days to set up and make any changes to the transaction
  • Automated Funds Transfer-Out Form
November 28, 2016
9:36 pm
Loonie
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I am wondering why an applicant is REQUIRED to supply a cellphone number. Some people don't even own one. I have never seen this requirement before.

November 28, 2016
11:29 pm
frizun
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Loonie said

I am wondering why an applicant is REQUIRED to supply a cellphone number. Some people don't even own one. I have never seen this requirement before.

Also noticed that you are required to have an employer.
Do you have to have a job to open up a savings account?
Retired isn't even available as an option.

November 29, 2016
6:08 am
NorthernRaven
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There may be a little bit of overthinking going on here. The applications will be mainly about satisfying the various internal and government rules about "knowing your customer", etc. They'll want "employer" if you have one, but you can always write in "self-employed", "retired", "None", etc. Same for "cell phone" - I really don't think they are in league with the telecom folks to push up market share... :). EQ Bank's application (for example), requires an "Other" phone# if you don't have a cell phone.

November 29, 2016
8:08 am
Winnie
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Rate change:

2.30% rate applies to the initial deposit amount, guaranteed until December 31, 2017.
Additional deposits will earn the regular ideal savings rate (currently 1.70%)

November 29, 2016
10:16 am
frizun
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NorthernRaven said

There may be a little bit of overthinking going on here. The applications will be mainly about satisfying the various internal and government rules about "knowing your customer", etc. They'll want "employer" if you have one, but you can always write in "self-employed", "retired", "None", etc. Same for "cell phone" - I really don't think they are in league with the telecom folks to push up market share... :). EQ Bank's application (for example), requires an "Other" phone# if you don't have a cell phone.

If these little things get pointed out,sometimes the powers that be can make changes for the better.

November 29, 2016
10:21 am
frizun
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Winnie said

Rate change:

2.30% rate applies to the initial deposit amount, guaranteed until December 31, 2017.
Additional deposits will earn the regular ideal savings rate (currently 1.70%)

Wow,that was a limited time offer.........you snooze you lose.
2.3% is still a pretty good rate though.
But you would have to hand over a large cheque before your account is even opened.

November 29, 2016
10:56 am
Peter
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Was the original wording around the 2.50% rate clear that it was on "the initial deposit" only? Seems like the way the word "guarantee" was applied has been significantly changed.

November 29, 2016
11:31 am
NorthernRaven
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I think the "initial deposit" bit is new.

There's a copy of their savings page in Google cache where the wording is "2.50% rate guaranteed until December 31, 2017 (limited time offer)". I don't remember the "limited time offer" disclaimer, so there may have been an even earlier version from when Janna first showed up. Regardless, it sounds like their vague/undisclosed intent was that the 2.5% rate was guaranteed to people who signed up with it, not that 2.5% would be the current, all-comers rate until the end of 2017.

I assume that although they've gone to this 2.3%/1.7% setup, the implication is that a group of previous customers who are still getting 2.5% on their entire balance through the end of next year, otherwise it would seem to be a pretty clear-cut case of misleading advertising.

Since they switched so quickly (10 days from Janna's first post), it may be that they got an unexpected flood (or relative flood, compared to their small-ish size) of hot money wanting that 2.5% and cast out the emergency anchor.

November 29, 2016
9:53 pm
Loonie
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The original wording was inadequate, as I noted previously. It was not laid out in any rate chart, cited in any T&C, or cited in any way except as a slogan on a page that existed in order to draw you in. At the time, I advised anyone who was interested to do a screensave, as that would be the only "proof" you would have.
https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/forum/ideal-savings/add-ideal-savings/page-2/ post #29

I did do the screensave. This is what it said, in its entirety (as Bill reported at the time, and NorthernRaven above.):
"2.50% rate guaranteed until December 31, 2017." Doesn't say anything about initial deposits or when you have to apply or make your deposits. The rate, it says, is guaranteed, period.

The normal way to do this would be to add a numbered footnote which specified conditions of the offer. In the absence of such qualifiers, it seems to me that they are obligated to honour the promise to anyone who can present their screensave of it.

In my view, it was most definitely misleading advertising. They chose not to qualify their promise in any way except by the deadline of Dec 31, 2017, and now they seem to think that taking it off their site means they are not bound by it. Not so. You make a commitment, you keep it, just like we learned in kindergarten - whether or not it turns out to have been an ill-considered promise.

A very sleazy operation IMO, and badly managed. Worse than EQ.
I don't think I'd want to give them my money as I wouldn't feel I could trust their integrity and I would worry about what other tricks they were going to pull. I don't need them that bad!

November 29, 2016
10:19 pm
Loonie
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NorthernRaven said

There may be a little bit of overthinking going on here. The applications will be mainly about satisfying the various internal and government rules about "knowing your customer", etc. They'll want "employer" if you have one, but you can always write in "self-employed", "retired", "None", etc. Same for "cell phone" - I really don't think they are in league with the telecom folks to push up market share... :). EQ Bank's application (for example), requires an "Other" phone# if you don't have a cell phone.

Ideal's app requires both the cellphone and home phone number. Both are asterisked. Come to think of it, a lot of people don't have land lines either.

It may seem that they are not in league with telecoms. Who knows?
Perhaps they are planning ahead for this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-25/no-credit-history-no-problem-lenders-now-peering-at-phone-data

November 30, 2016
4:04 am
fabafter50
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Well shame on Ideal savings. I just ripped up the application. I also read the screensave that did not put conditions on the 2.5% until December 2017. There is truth to "if it looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. In this case it was completely false and misleading. They will never see a cent of mine.
Sleazy is an understatement.

November 30, 2016
7:03 am
Loonie
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It would make an interesting class action lawsuit.

November 30, 2016
7:31 am
Atlas
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I'm not surprised that Ideal Savings have altered their rates already [Appended : I, too, screen-captured the initial 2.50% ideal savings account release].

However, I see it this way - Financial Technology (although Ideal is not FinTech per se as their application and withdrawal processes are paper-based) is moving along and adapting, and being adopted, quickly. Opportunities abound.

Unless something else comes along in the near future, I'll wait until 2018 for Meridian Bank to launch and continue to utilize that Orange bank and tfsa to get some decent returns.

November 30, 2016
7:47 am
Winnie
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Atlas said

I'm not surprised that Ideal Savings have altered their rates already.

Ideal Savings have not altered their rates, they violated their 2.50% guarantee: "2.50% rate guaranteed until December 31, 2017."

The 2.50% rate was guaranteed without any footnotes or conditions. Misleading advertising!

November 30, 2016
7:57 am
fabafter50
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It was an absolute violation.
Why don't banks realize when they pull this crap, no one will trust them. EVER!
Same reason I pulled everything out of Tangerine.

November 30, 2016
6:25 pm
Loonie
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Interesting how "Janna" has declined to comment.

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