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Add Ideal Savings
November 18, 2016
11:53 pm
Loonie
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I appreciate what others have said.
I remain uncomfortable with the original post, which did NOT disclose the identity of the poster AND which wanted us to "add" it to our list.

I do sometimes click on the ads. Perhaps not everyone realizes that they are what makes the forum financially viable for Peter to operate (and, no, I have no personal connection with Peter) in consideration of the time involved. There is very little clutter on this site, so we can afford to have a few ads. Perhaps he can ask Janna if they would run an ad.

I appreciate the fact that we do not have a simple solution to this issue. I suggested at least moving the thread to a different section and renaming it, and I still think that is a good idea. ADDED: I note that Peter has now moved it. Thanks, Peter.

I am wondering how Peter knew to ask Janna to state her affiliation with this FI.

I would be open to having a section where people like Janna could state what they have to offer and answer questions to a limited degree. However, we need to bear in mind that we don't have a way of verifying that people are who they say they are (as far as I know). Therefore, any answers posted in that section, if such were created, should be brief and would need to be confirmed with the institution in question. The most reliable way to answer a question is to direct us to where the answer can be found on the FIs site or how else we might find it reliably.

As for the offer itself, it seems to me like intelligent marketing. Like Alterna and Oaken, they have taken into account that people are fed up, not just with Big Five, but with 3-month offers (PC), lottery offers (Tang) and rapidly declining "not a promo" offers (EQ). While the guarantee is basically only for a year, perhaps they will at that point be able to extend it or make an offer that is comparable in the context of the competition at that time. Tang and PC effectively do something very similar in terms of rates but they manage to alienate us in the process by forcing renegotiations and transfers in order to make it happen, and we are obliged to hand over some of the interest we should be able to receive to their shareholders.

I have long thought that credit unions, in theory, ought to be able to do better for depositors by eliminating the external shareholder, but it doesn't normally happen. Perhaps Carpathia has figured out a way. I recall that a couple of years ago they also had a very good rate on something but it was not really feasible for people outside their target population to take advantage of.

My assessment: Not as transparent as others such as Hubert and Oaken. Would require active monitoring for fees and changes. I would rather my charitable contribution was not ethnically restricted, and I would prefer to have voting rights. (I have the same problem with Peoples, as I wrote elsewhere.) I'm not fond of closed doors. I haven't yet seen where it guarantees the rate til end 2017 except on the advertising/descriptive page, but neither have I examined the Application forms - perhaps it is there? Would like something in writing about this other than a screen shot.

November 19, 2016
1:35 am
Loonie
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Reviewing the Fine Print:

On the “Products” page about “Ideal Savings” (account), it says “You’re free to withdraw your funds without penalty at any time.”

On the FAQ page, it says “If you would like to withdraw funds from your Ideal Savings account you may do so with an automatic funds transfer…”

On the “Fees” page, it states that “Automated Funds Transfer Out (AFT)” costs $3.

I would consider $3 to be a “penalty” (and I think most of us would, especially as I can think of no other savings account which charges this much), and, thus, the first statement is, in my opinion, misleading. It's annoying, but not, at the moment, a significant amount if you don't plan to move the money very often.

T&C state that they may change their fees at any time "without actual notice” to the account holder. Further down, it says that fee changes will take effect 30 days after “publication”. So, this means you need to check their website about every 3 weeks to ensure that there are not any changes which would be unacceptable to you, as they are not obligated to inform you personally (similar to EQ, which considers it sufficient to post notices on your profile).

Ideal’s parent credit union, Carpathia, is a “closed bond” credit union, which means it limits membership to its own community, however it chooses to define it. Basically, you have to be Ukrainian and live in Manitoba to be a member. If you have an account with Ideal, you do NOT become a credit union member and you have no voting rights unless you also happen to qualify for and belong to Carpathia. However, it’s parallel to the banks, where you also have no voting rights either unless the bank publicly issues shares and you also happen to be a shareholder. With some, like Peoples, you would never have a say as it is privately held. None of the other credit unions on our list are closed bond. The ability to have a say, even if not exercised, might matter to some forum members.

Carpathia’s (and thus Ideal’s) charitable dollars go to support Ukrainian-Canadians and Ukrainian-Canadian culture, according to C's website. This is not discussed on Ideal's website. I always like to look at where they are donating money, to see if it coincides with my values., since the profits that are used are based on the business we do with them.

No exclusion re: Quebec, which is the case with most of the other MB CUs that we follow.

My assessment, FWIW:
Not as transparent as Hubert or Oaken and does not yet have all the modern conveniences that we might like. Personally, I prefer open doors to closed ones, so would prefer membership and voting rights and for charitable donations to not be ethically restricted. Will require regular monitoring for change in fees etc. I couldn't find where it guarantees the savings rate through 2017 except on the advertising page, but perhaps it is there somewhere. It ought to be in print somewhere other than as a screen saver.
Still, can't really complain about the rate, which is a better offer than anything else at the moment for the period in question and with unlimited deposit insurance, assuming they honour the time period and assuming you are not planning on withdrawals. If not, you pays yer 3 bucks and takes yer money!
Good question as to whether there are monetary withdrawal limits, but I don't see any - so far. At 3 bucks a pop, they might add up.

I will consider it in January, I think. That's when the next round of rate offers should happen, particularly with TFSA/RSP season heating up and with the talk (again!) of the Federal Reserve possibly raising rates. Still, I think I'd limit myself to well under 100K because of the features I don't like. I am nervous about whether they will have the expertise to handle a large influx of money, should it occur, especially since their talent pool is restricted to one ethnic group apparently. I hope some "early adopters" will report back on their experiences.

November 19, 2016
6:49 am
HIS285
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There is a "dormant account" fee of $18 after six months. If one makes a substantial deposit and then just let the interest accrue with no other transaction, would that be considered dormant?

I also wonder how easy/quick it would be to get (part of) one's money out if needed or when the interest rate goes down.

November 19, 2016
7:28 am
Peter
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Loonie said
I am wondering how Peter knew to ask Janna to state her affiliation with this FI.

I look at the e-mail addresses of all new posters :)

November 19, 2016
7:30 am
ertyu
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Can the accounts support online Electronic Fund Transfers in and out, either initiated by Ideal or initiated by an external bank?

Or is the only option to mail in transfer forms?

November 19, 2016
9:01 am
Norman1
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ertyu said

Can the accounts support online Electronic Fund Transfers in and out, either initiated by Ideal or initiated by an external bank?

Or is the only option to mail in transfer forms?

The Ideal Savings account seems to support electronic fund transfers initiated by Ideal. Ideal calls them Automated Funds Transfers.

This is from their FAQ:

- How do I make additional deposits?

After your initial cheque deposit is made, you can make a deposit by:

Mail
– use the postage paid envelopes we provide to mail in a cheque (no cash please)
– 10 business day holds will be applied to all cheque deposits

Automatic Funds Transfer
– set up a one-time or recurring automatic transfer from your existing financial institution
– same day deposit (initial set up may take up to 5 business days)

Interac e-Transfer ®
– send funds electronically through online banking (transfer limits apply)
– takes 30-60 minutes to receive

At this time we are not offering debit cards.

- Can I withdraw funds?

If you would like to withdraw funds from your Ideal Savings account you may do so with an automatic funds transfer, Interac e-Transfer® or contact us to send you an official cheque by mail.

You may not withdraw funds from a term investment before its maturity date.

According to their fees page, each AFT out to an external account is $3. Each official cheque is $10.

For modest withdrawals (up to $1,000 per transfer, $3,000 per day, $5,000 per week, and $10,000 per month), one could do an outgoing Interac e-Transfer that is $1.50.

November 19, 2016
9:02 am
kanaka
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HIS285 said

There is a "dormant account" fee of $18 after six months. If one makes a substantial deposit and then just let the interest accrue with no other transaction, would that be considered dormant?

I also wonder how easy/quick it would be to get (part of) one's money out if needed or when the interest rate goes down.

Good point. I guess each FI needs to define how they consider an account to be dormant. Since I only use some FI's to invest only with GICs as most are not good for a day to day account. I would think some accounts I have only have a transaction every couple of months or longer...some are only interest payments from GIC and otherwise no cash in account.

November 19, 2016
10:26 am
Bill
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I join the others who welcomed Janna to the site, the more info the better. And it's a given that no-one online can prove they are who they say they are or what their motivations are, the Web's been around long enough for us all to get that. I've spoken well of EQ, for example, and there's no way to tell that I (or a relative, etc) don't work for or otherwise benefit from me doing so, even if I declare otherwise.
And I easily found the rate guarantee on Ideal's site, it clearly says "2.50% rate guaranteed until December 31, 2017" so that's good enough for me.
I don't deal with credit unions so I've no dog in the fight, but it's always nice to have more competition for those who will consider dealing with them.

November 19, 2016
11:47 am
Loonie
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Can anyone show me where the rate guarantee appears other than on the advertising page? It ought to be on this page, but I can't find it there:
https://idealsavings.ca/rates/ Perhaps Janna can arrange for it to be added.
If not, I suggest taking a screenshot of https://idealsavings.ca/investment-products/ideal-savings/ if you plan to become a client.
Someone mentioned a footnote, but I have not found it as a footnote.

Yes, I thought the inactivity period was too short also, but forgot to mention it earlier. You'd need to transfer-in a dollar every 5 months to be on the safe side as withdrawing money will cost you. Between that, the withdrawal fee, and their management style, I can't say I like the institution, but, like all of them, there are trade-off s you have to make sometimes. If they want to grow and KEEP their new clients over time, they should get rid of these annoyances.

I am deliberately avoiding the use of their term "associate member" because, from my point of view as a consumer, it is meaningless. They might as well be a bank, where I have no membership rights. They are not functioning like a credit union.

November 20, 2016
2:24 pm
Norman1
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Loonie said


Yes, I thought the inactivity period was too short also, but forgot to mention it earlier. You'd need to transfer-in a dollar every 5 months to be on the safe side as withdrawing money will cost you. Between that, the withdrawal fee, and their management style, I can't say I like the institution, but, like all of them, there are trade-off s you have to make sometimes. If they want to grow and KEEP their new clients over time, they should get rid of these annoyances.

Inactive doesn't necessarily mean dormant for the purposes of account closing and fees. Achieva charges the balance of the account on accounts with $25 or less that have been inactive for six months.

Would an Ideal Savings account with a significant balance, like $20,000, really be charged $18 and closed after 6 months because of no client initiated activity?

Perhaps Janna could clarify this.

November 20, 2016
7:00 pm
Loonie
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It would be "ideal" (pun intended) if Janna could get her managers to clarify this policy on the website. That would be more authoritative than posting it here.

What do you think of the financials, Norman? Do you think this CU can handle a significant influx of money well at this rate of return, or are they taking too much risk? Or do they not give us enough info to go on? I realize there is the insurance, but still wouldn't want all eggs in one basket due to inevitable delays if things went very wrong.

November 21, 2016
7:20 am
Janna
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Peter said

Loonie said
I am wondering how Peter knew to ask Janna to state her affiliation with this FI.

I look at the e-mail addresses of all new posters :)

I did use my work email and real name when registering and was not trying to hide the fact that I worked for the company. I would have preferred to send the forum an email introducing Ideal Savings but could not find information on the site to do that.

Going forward I will stop posting since it seems people are uncomfortable with it. Please contact us with any questions you have by email at info@idealsavings.ca or by phone at 1-844-616-1443.

Thank you!

November 21, 2016
12:10 pm
kanaka
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Janna since you entered the forum I think it is only the correct thing to do is to respond to all of us and clarify all fees that have been mentioned and as well a very clear definition of what is a dormant account.

November 21, 2016
1:14 pm
GoJetsGo
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Janna gave their contact info. When I emailed them on Friday, they responded to my 5 questions within 45 minutes - not a bad response time. With the negativity towards Janna and the credit union she works for, I can't see how one could expect the rep to continue to answer questions on this forum. Many of the financial institutions I've dealt with have vague descriptions of what a dormant account is. If you're that concerned, shoot them an email.

November 21, 2016
1:29 pm
Winnie
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Ideal savings dormant account clarification:

If one makes a substantial deposit and then just let the interest accrue with no other transaction, that would NOT be considered dormant account.

November 21, 2016
2:01 pm
Loonie
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I think I'm the only one who expressed reservations about Janna's OP. I also stated my own analysis of the institution. In post #21 above, I suggested we might consider a place on this forum where people like Janna could post some introductory information, bearing in mind that ultimately the institution must speak for itself publicly and identifiably. I acknowledged that we have not fully solved the dilemma between advertising and information. If we can't provide such a place, then perhaps the feeling is that it really is just advertising.

Janna seems to have hastily decided to pack her bags. I agree that it would be best if she did answer the questions people have raised AND directed them to where these answers could be found on the website or at least told us that she would ask that they be included. We will not be the only ones raising these questions, and our feedback could improve the quality of their website if they are able to hear that. If they aren't, well, perhaps that too tells us something about how they operate, absorb new information, and whether/how we want to do business with them.

I have to conclude that the function of a marketing department must be to control the message and to disappear when they can't. If you're going to participate in a forum, you have to expect that there will be a variety of opinions and that there will be criticisms. We can't suspend our critical abilities just because an employee decides to join the forum, as that would defeat the purpose of the forum.
If the moderator had decided to cut off posts from people identified with particular FIs, then that would have been done. There is no reason why she can't continue. It's her decision.

November 21, 2016
3:13 pm
kanaka
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GoJetsGo said

Janna gave their contact info. When I emailed them on Friday, they responded to my 5 questions within 45 minutes - not a bad response time. With the negativity towards Janna and the credit union she works for, I can't see how one could expect the rep to continue to answer questions on this forum. Many of the financial institutions I've dealt with have vague descriptions of what a dormant account is. If you're that concerned, shoot them an email.

I think you are missing a point. She entered the arena to do some horn tooting about a new virtual FI. And that is fine with me. So just don't drop out when the questions get too tough!! A lot of us here are well seasoned as an individual and as a group. Questions were asked while others scrutinized their website and asked more questions. So far I quickly looked at their site and also have faith on what others have seen and I don't think they come close to what Implicity, Hubert or Accelerate offers. If you remember way back a rep from Hubert got on here and bailed out when things got rough (in her opinion I guess). The thing is when anyone Googles Ideal Financial and sees the unanswered questions and the bail out they will not likely pursue. I also wonder in Janna bailed out or was advised by management to discontinue??

Has any one mailed the URL to this forum to the CEO of Carpathia?

November 21, 2016
3:22 pm
kanaka
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Loonie said

I think I'm the only one who expressed reservations about Janna's OP. I also stated my own analysis of the institution. In post #21 above, I suggested we might consider a place on this forum where people like Janna could post some introductory information, bearing in mind that ultimately the institution must speak for itself publicly and identifiably. I acknowledged that we have not fully solved the dilemma between advertising and information. If we can't provide such a place, then perhaps the feeling is that it really is just advertising.

Janna seems to have hastily decided to pack her bags. I agree that it would be best if she did answer the questions people have raised AND directed them to where these answers could be found on the website or at least told us that she would ask that they be included. We will not be the only ones raising these questions, and our feedback could improve the quality of their website if they are able to hear that. If they aren't, well, perhaps that too tells us something about how they operate, absorb new information, and whether/how we want to do business with them.

I have to conclude that the function of a marketing department must be to control the message and to disappear when they can't. If you're going to participate in a forum, you have to expect that there will be a variety of opinions and that there will be criticisms. We can't suspend our critical abilities just because an employee decides to join the forum, as that would defeat the purpose of the forum.
If the moderator had decided to cut off posts from people identified with particular FIs, then that would have been done. There is no reason why she can't continue. It's her decision.

Actually when you think about it Janna did a horribly poor job from the get go and I doubt if she has been exposed to any marketing education.

November 21, 2016
5:53 pm
GoJetsGo
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kanaka,

I don’t feel that I’ve missed any point. As you are, I am fine that Janna came on this forum to tell us about their new account & rate. I’m sure there are many readers of this forum who appreciate it as well, whether they decide to become a customer or not.

I simply have a different perspective than you on whether it’s okay that Janna left. All businesses need to control their message and answering questions on this forum is a NO WIN situation for any business in my opinion. Janna, very politely invited that questions get sent directly to them. It is just as easy to type and send them an email as it is to post a question on this forum. It’s not that questions get too tough; it revolves around the vicious nature and rhetoric of some of the posts on this forum. Insulting Janna’s education is just another example.

As a retired business owner & CEO, if I were to receive an email URL of this thread, I would read through this website, come to the conclusion that it’s a great website for keeping followers informed of the highest rates, and probably go to Janna’s office to thank the Rep for posting and big thumbs up for directing further questions directly to our company.

November 21, 2016
6:08 pm
Loonie
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Here is the link to Carpathia's Annual Report for last year
https://www.carpathiacu.mb.ca/cms-assets/documents/234964-906198.43194-ccu-annual-report-2015forweb.pdf

They acquired 225 new Associate members last year, for a total of 1330 associate members by 30 Sept 2016. Associate members are people like us who would be clients of Ideal but would not be members of Carpathia.

I found no mention of any intentions to open an online FI in this report. Perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see it. There was very little about future plans of any sort. I find this odd. There are many pages in Ukrainian but I think they are just repeats of what is in English. I don't think there is hidden info there.

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