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Pace Securities
September 5, 2021
6:41 am
Elaine
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I have been rightfully corrected that the 13 people on schedule D get their money.
Why that would be-morally as someone who has senior clients losing their life savings-the thing to do would be to toss it all back in the pot to be divided up amongst the most needy.And it would go a long way in putting some faith back in Pace.Now it is just par for the course.

And what it sounds like-from the guys who know what they are doing-if Barbara did not panic we might not be in this mess anyways(ya-I know about margin calls)

September 5, 2021
9:40 am
Norman1
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I don't think we can blame Barbara Dirks for the mess. She joined April 6, 2020 to help clean up the mess.

It was Laurentian Bank Securities (LBS) that gave the margin loan to PACE Financial. I think LBS had called the margin loan by then, after the junk bonds, the collateral for the loan, dropped in value.

September 5, 2021
10:29 am
savemoresaveoften
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Elaine said
I have been rightfully corrected that the 13 people on schedule D get their money.
Why that would be-morally as someone who has senior clients losing their life savings-the thing to do would be to toss it all back in the pot to be divided up amongst the most needy.And it would go a long way in putting some faith back in Pace.Now it is just par for the course.

And what it sounds like-from the guys who know what they are doing-if Barbara did not panic we might not be in this mess anyways(ya-I know about margin calls)  

You are making the assumption that Pace has the means to meet the margin call, which I dont believe it can. The margin clerk has full authority to liquidate to limit LBS's losses and he/she rightfully did.
At the end of the day, one should be grateful to get 70cents on the dollar back, seriously.

September 5, 2021
10:53 am
Elaine
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Then Pace should not been in the business of selling those shares out of their credit unions and making them look like GIC's.
And if I had been scammed , while aware of the risks I would say you are right.
I was not made aware of the risks and I did not qualify to buy the product.It was the salesperson who filled out the form-not me.And a copy was never given to me to look over.Because as far as I knew I was purchasing a Pace branded GIC.First time buying a GIC in there.Just figured this is how they do things.
If Pace credit union was leasing out space to crooks -it is not my fault.
Pace should be making up the other 30% (over time)

And as far as margin calls and FHH and all that-this old lady buying a GIC at a credit union knows nothing abut that

September 5, 2021
10:53 am
i_got_smucked_too
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Dave_1

I like your "price discrimination" angle. Google lookups indicate it's probably not illegal, but maybe, morally, an argument can be made that "price discrimination" should be denied. If you (or anyone) has a few silver bullets on this subject, please DM me.

As you pointed out, every client that gets a payout, consumed exactly the same service from PRRR. So why the disparity in fees among the clients ? In my book, just because it's always been done that way, doesn't fly.

FYI, I am working on my own objection that I will put forth to the Courts. It you want to sign on to mine, or collaborate in any way, please DM me.

September 5, 2021
11:29 am
Kidd
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I got smucked too.

Unless you can prove wilful mismanagement of funds, or some other illegal activity, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Do you pay tax, Income, sales, property? The amount you pay in total tax, what benefit do you receive from that? The answer is, Very, very little. Other's reap the reward from what you and i pay.

Insurance, home and auto. You pay high insurance premiums because of someone else's accident. My house has never flooded, but the costs of other's who have had floods, is what i help pay for.

September 5, 2021
11:39 am
Bill
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If someone bought what they thought were gics and didn't look into why the rates were much juicier than everywhere else and also didn't even demand a copy of the agreement then they are wilfully blind, imo. A 30% haircut is thus the cost of their own negligence in this matter, you'll get nowhere taking the position that zero is your fault, 100% is Pace's.

September 5, 2021
12:09 pm
Douglas Thomson
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Well according to the judgement, it would seem that the courts found Pace nearly 100% to blame for the deception. The 30% is cost of getting them to admit it.

September 5, 2021
12:11 pm
Elaine
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Why would I (or anyone) need to demand something from a trustworthy organization?I was inside a Credit Union.I was ready to leave because I could get a better rate than the one that was posted form the hydro credit union.
And then someone shows up and

I was told it was the last day of a sale.He would work on it all night to get it in .Anywhere else I would walk.But I was in a credit union.One that I had not been in before because Altrans(who I had been with forever) were bought by Pace.Altrans had none of these bells and whistles.And I never thought Altrans would sell out to a credit union that had major issues going on.
Will whining on this board on a beautiful sunny day get me anything?-nope.
Will the Pace team (who is reading this) do anything different in the future-maybe not.
Even the first time I spoke with Barbara Dirks and explained how the scam worked,she said there may be extenuating circumstances in my case(in writing) before her plug was pulled.
But whatever-have a beautiful day.

September 5, 2021
4:03 pm
Bud
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Norman1 said

Bud said

Sure they could to give appearance deal was on the up n up. 33k for most chairman is peanuts.

No, not at all. If it had not blown up, everything would have remained private and no-one would have known if the chairman had invested at all.

Also $33,000 is $33,000. There are better things in Toronto to do to get rid of $33,000 of "unwanted" money.  

Norman1 said

Bud said

Sure they could to give appearance deal was on the up n up. 33k for most chairman is peanuts.

No, not at all. If it had not blown up, everything would have remained private and no-one would have known if the chairman had invested at all.
 

Knowing there was a slight chance it could blow up an his investment would be made public it would look better perhaps if he had some skin in the game.

September 5, 2021
4:32 pm
Elaine
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so why the heck is he in on the settlement?.Pace was proved to be in the wrong.He represents Pace.
It is so scammy

September 5, 2021
5:25 pm
savemoresaveoften
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Elaine said
Why would I (or anyone) need to demand something from a trustworthy organization?I was inside a Credit Union.I was ready to leave because I could get a better rate than the one that was posted form the hydro credit union.
And then someone shows up and

I was told it was the last day of a sale.He would work on it all night to get it in .Anywhere else I would walk.But I was in a credit union.One that I had not been in before because Altrans(who I had been with forever) were bought by Pace.Altrans had none of these bells and whistles.And I never thought Altrans would sell out to a credit union that had major issues going on.
Will whining on this board on a beautiful sunny day get me anything?-nope.
Will the Pace team (who is reading this) do anything different in the future-maybe not.
Even the first time I spoke with Barbara Dirks and explained how the scam worked,she said there may be extenuating circumstances in my case(in writing) before her plug was pulled.
But whatever-have a beautiful day.  

While your case may be unique, some may willfully turn a blind eye to the risk, as the outsized return is the only thing they focused on at the time. And then cry foul and wanted a 100% once things did not work out, as in this case.
Unfortunately this is not the first nor the last that something like this will happen. All I can say is ‘educate oneself, esp when it comes to money matter’. Trust a doctor, or even a lawyer, before trusting a financial advisor totally.

September 5, 2021
6:22 pm
Norman1
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Elaine said
so why the heck is he in on the settlement?.Pace was proved to be in the wrong.He represents Pace.
It is so scammy

Not sure where you got that from. The matter never got to trial. I didn't see any finding of wrongdoing by the judge. Did PACE CU, PACE Securities, PACE Financial, or anyone admit to wrongdoing?

All of the investors, as a class, agreed to drop the matter for $40 million. Judge approved the settlement agreement. $40 million was provided. Matter is now legally dropped.

September 5, 2021
6:37 pm
COIN
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The victims might be able to get some income tax relief on the 30% "haircut".

September 5, 2021
6:49 pm
Norman1
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Elaine said
Then Pace should not been in the business of selling those shares out of their credit unions and making them look like GIC's.

I agree. But, legally, anyone, including PACE CU, could sell you up to $10,000 of the shares a year.

And if I had been scammed , while aware of the risks I would say you are right.
I was not made aware of the risks and I did not qualify to buy the product.It was the salesperson who filled out the form-not me. And a copy was never given to me to look over.Because as far as I knew I was purchasing a Pace branded GIC.First time buying a GIC in there.Just figured this is how they do things.

Unfortunately, it is not as easy as that. Responsibility is not all or nothing. It is a range from 0% to 100%. I don't think you would be able hold the needle on your responsibility meter at 0%.

If this did go to trial, the judge would ask why, for such a large sum of money to you, you didn't raise a fuss a few months after the fateful transaction when you still did not receive any confirmation, written or online, of the $100,000 "GIC" purchase.

Answering that you trusted PACE CU will get you lots of sympathy. But, it won't be enough to establish that you were 0% responsible.

Keep in mind that not being 0% responsible doesn't mean one was 100% responsible either.

September 5, 2021
8:30 pm
Norman1
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COIN said
The victims might be able to get some income tax relief on the 30% "haircut".

Outside an RRSP or TFSA, a 30% capital loss.

However, the capital loss could only be applied against capital gains.

September 6, 2021
6:44 am
COIN
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Speaking as an impartial outsider, I think 70% plus any tax relief is probably the best that is realistically possible.

September 6, 2021
7:00 am
savemoresaveoften
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And as far as margin calls and FHH and all that-this old lady buying a GIC at a credit union knows nothing abut that  

COIN said
Speaking as an impartial outsider, I think 70% plus any tax relief is probably the best that is realistically possible.  

yes, just lick the wound, move on and learn from the lesson.

If any victim still thinks they are 0% responsible, show they did not learn from it....

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