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Pace Securities
June 10, 2021
4:17 pm
Yaftica
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Waiting game they are playing. These are unprecedented times I get it but they’re watching their portfolio performance to see what other opportunities there may be to fund things, hopefully. That or they are still trying to sort who lost what and how still, figure out their liability. They don’t want to begin the process with PRRR just yet but I thought they had deadlines to meet there too.

I wouldn’t argue that they’re thriving by any stretch. But they have to admit we’re seeing real stability and in some cases, improvement in financial metrics for the banks according to recent earnings.

They will use some excuse that we’re working on it and trying to figure out ways to weather the Covid storm. In other words, hang tight. But I agree, people could actually be dying through this. Get on with it, ridiculous.

June 11, 2021
7:58 am
Dave_1
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I know "zero" of what's going on but I can speculate with the best of them. lol. There's also plenty to be gleamed from James Bradshaw's, Globe & Mail articles.

It appears FSRA/PACE has alot of irons in the fire:

But when it comes to us, the claimants, what are you looking for ?

For me, two key things:

  • survival of the Credit Union
  • make me whole..... meaning 100% restitution of the property I lost at the hands of FSRA/DICO, PACE, Pace Securities, Joe Thomson, et al.

FSRA was in charge when I invested in FHH. FSRA/DICO knew Pace Securities / Joe Thomson was running a glorified "hedge" fund, "ponzi" scheme, and investing in "junk bonds". Call it whatever you want. FSRA knew all about it. FSRA could have stopped it and chose not to. See Bradshaw's article in the Globe & Mail - Dec 28, 2020.

Whenever Joe Thomson needed more cash, just have his sales personnel (the IAs) scour PACE banking records for elderly investors with cash or GICs. Lure them in with the 7% promise, then feed 'em a story full of lies after lies and sign 'em up. Easy money. Lavish commissions. Just like shooting fish in a barrel.

Screw me over in mediation FSRA & what money this wounded fish has left, is gone ! I won't be waiting for litigation. Let the run on the bank begin.

The solution is simple FSRA..... $60M loan to PACE @ 0% interest. Work out a repayment plan. You have the power to do this. Get it done.

BTW i_got_smucked_too, it's sad but your humorous Jack Nicholson clip was not lost on me. It deserves another look.

i_got_smucked_too said   

June 11, 2021
8:00 am
Bud
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The big 6 banks were bailed out again and common shareholders allowed to retain their divdends so why not Pace. I propose a sliver of excess capital at the big 6 goes to make Pace security holders whole. The excess capital belongs to taxpayers.

June 20, 2021
2:17 pm
Yaftica
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Well maybe if one of those big banks decides to buy the financial institution at this point one of the conditions of the transaction will be that they exit their legalities cleanly so the banks are not buying a brand from the bottom of the toilet bowl. Otherwise what value would it be to anyone.

If they screw over the membership they may as well fold the organization as they did with PSC. Perhaps that’s an option on the table currently too, we’re soon to be creditors on an E&Y $hit list with PCU as well. Smells like it already. Hope not.

https://www.pacecu.ca/SharedContent/documents/2021/ReportonBusinessGlobeandMailJun2.pdf

June 20, 2021
8:19 pm
COIN
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Yaftica said
Well maybe if one of those big banks decides to buy the financial institution at this point one of the conditions of the transaction will be that they exit their legalities cleanly so the banks are not buying a brand from the bottom of the toilet bowl. Otherwise what value would it be to anyone.

If they screw over the membership they may as well fold the organization as they did with PSC. Perhaps that’s an option on the table currently too, we’re soon to be creditors on an E&Y $hit list with PCU as well. Smells like it already. Hope not.

https://www.pacecu.ca/SharedContent/documents/2021/ReportonBusinessGlobeandMailJun2.pdf  

A bank will most like just purchase the assets and deposits.

June 24, 2021
8:27 am
Yaftica
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It all sounds so wonderful. Promises of such high ethical standards.

Still waiting for you to do the right things PACE CREDIT UNION.

https://ccua.com/about-credit-unions/74CE67EC-9B89-4122-BC10-423603B6C959.jpeg

July 8, 2021
7:10 pm
Dave_1
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https://www.paliareroland.com/pace-securities-litigation

$40 million? Gross? Then subtract fees and more fees! That's it !?

July 9, 2021
5:21 am
savemoresaveoften
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Dave_1 said
https://www.paliareroland.com/pace-securities-litigation

$40 million? Gross? Then subtract fees and more fees! That's it !?  

The below is in the FAQ

The settlement is in the global amount of $40 million, inclusive of costs, on total claims estimated to be approximately $48 million, and so Representative Counsel view this as a very good recovery in all of the circumstances. However, the settlement is still subject to approval by the court at a hearing that has tentatively been scheduled for July 30, 2021, and, if approved, the court will later consider the allocation to individual investors. Until both the settlement and an allocation are approved, it isn’t possible to say how much you will be receiving.

Thats like a 80% recovery ?

July 9, 2021
6:44 am
COIN
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I'm not directly involved but I did have a couple of GIC's with the CU that matured earlier this year and decided to cash out.

July 9, 2021
7:35 am
AltaRed
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Dave_1 said
https://www.paliareroland.com/pace-securities-litigation

$40 million? Gross? Then subtract fees and more fees! That's it !?  

Probably. My take is the $40M is a pretty good recovery in such circumstances. The real damage on that $40M will be Representative Counsel fees plus costs. Brace yourself for hungry pigs at the trough.

July 9, 2021
7:51 am
savemoresaveoften
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AltaRed said

Probably. My take is the $40M is a pretty good recovery in such circumstances. The real damage on that $40M will be Representative Counsel fees plus costs. Brace yourself for hungry pigs at the trough.  

yeah, it quoted similar case recovery is in the 40-70% range.

July 9, 2021
8:01 am
Dave_1
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It's nice that the admin folks here chose to censor my last post. Even that post was toned down from what I was thinking. lol.

Fact is as an Investor Claimant I just got kicked in the groin. Thanks FSRA/PACE, Joe Thomson, Gerald McRae, Ernie Eves and the rest of your crew.

savemoresaveoften said Thats like a 80% recovery ?

That's what they are selling, approx 80% ($40m/$48m). I'm not buying. It's BS.

Read the FAQ and the lengthy Motion Records (120+ pages). Reads like a sales pitch. Too much deception.

Paliare Roland is pushing the 70% or more [sic] number, which makes the $40m number more like $33.6m after expenses. And I'm supposed to be happy. Not!

70% is not 100% restitution for those of us that got screwed over by FSRA/PACE and the other operatives of PACE Securities. A rounding number to them is a life time of savings to me. FSRA had the opportunity to get it right but cheaped out.

My options are limited now. Get out your coloring book FSRA/PACE. You can color me & my money gone!

July 9, 2021
10:14 am
savemoresaveoften
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Dave_1 said
It's nice that the admin folks here chose to censor my last post. Even that post was toned down from what I was thinking. lol.

Fact is as an Investor Claimant I just got kicked in the groin. Thanks FSRA/PACE, Joe Thomson, Gerald McRae, Ernie Eves and the rest of your crew.

savemoresaveoften said Thats like a 80% recovery ?

That's what they are selling, approx 80% ($40m/$48m). I'm not buying. It's BS.

Read the FAQ and the lengthy Motion Records (120+ pages). Reads like a sales pitch. Too much deception.

Paliare Roland is pushing the 70% or more [sic] number, which makes the $40m number more like $33.6m after expenses. And I'm supposed to be happy. Not!

70% is not 100% restitution for those of us that got screwed over by FSRA/PACE and the other operatives of PACE Securities. A rounding number to them is a life time of savings to me. FSRA had the opportunity to get it right but cheaped out.

My options are limited now. Get out your coloring book FSRA/PACE. You can color me & my money gone!  

Unfortunately the lawyers get rich and the only incentive for them to pick up a case like this.

We = lawyers
"We dont get paid unless you get paid". Its really "We get paid a lot on a % and absolute basis and then you get paid"

July 9, 2021
11:49 am
Norman1
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It is a choice one makes.

The cut is around 20% to 25% when one wishes to pay the lawyer on a contingency basis.

One can always agree to pay the lawyer instead on an hourly basis, regardless of outcome.

The bigger picture is that these situations often do not end well because investors are in no position to legally recover losses.

In Investor incurs significant losses from unsuitable advice…, the ombudsman recommend a settlement of $226,497. Firm refused. Final settlement was $40,000, less than 18% of recommendation:

Hours before our [OBSI] publication of the case, Firm B extended a new offer of $40,000 [up from previous offer of $25,000] to compensate Ms. F for her losses. After months of waiting for a better offer and although this was a small fraction of our total recommendation of $226,497, Ms. F reluctantly accepted the $40,000 due to her financial situation and her belief that she had no realistic alternative to recoup a higher proportion of her losses. Because Firm B and Ms. F had agreed to settle the case, we did not publish our report [naming the firm].

July 9, 2021
12:03 pm
Norman1
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Another reference point is the settlement between Royal Bank and the Earl Jones fraud victims: CBC: RBC settles Earl Jones fraud victims lawsuit

Victims had asked Royal Bank for $40 million of the $50 million of losses. Settlement was $17 million. That works out to be 42.5% of the $40 million ask or 34% of the losses.

July 9, 2021
12:14 pm
savemoresaveoften
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obv the victims want 100% back, but I think realistically get 80 cents back on the dollar before fees is a very "good" outcome all things considered.

July 9, 2021
7:33 pm
Bill
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Asking for 100% restitution implies 0% responsibility for one's decisions, not sure impartial parties would see that as a reasonable position for one side to take. I agree with the previous post, 80% would be a very good outcome, hopefully for investors they can get that much.

July 10, 2021
6:51 am
COIN
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Nobody likes a 20% haircut but this might be the best settlement to allow both parties to get on with their lives.

Hopefully, the regulatory bodies will exercise closer scrutiny of CU's, especially the ones that are closely held by a small group.

July 10, 2021
7:49 am
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A little make believe story, pulled from the many James Bradshaw's articles, to entertain the masses on a Saturday morning:

  • The poultry farmers, Larry & Phillip Smith, build a new chicken coop, PACE Securities.
  • Old foxes, Joe Thomson, Gerald McRae, Ernie Eves are paid mega $$ to manage the new chicken coop.
  • Young foxes, the Investment Advisors, are paid big commissions to stock the chicken coop.
  • The regulators, DICO / FSRA, come in to inspect Continental Money Exchange. They also find the poultry farmers & foxes raping & pillaging the chicken coop. Allegedly, the grain in the grainary (used to feed the chickens) is exiting via the back door. Stop that boys, play nice.
  • The poultry farmers & their crew of foxes put up a partition in the chicken coop isolating PFL on one side, FHH on the other. The regulator watches & admires the traffic flowing freely through the wide open, sliding door in the partition.
  • In 2018, seeing enough, the regulator takes over operations of the poultry farm.
  • The foxes are still running the chicken coop. The chickens are well feed but the grainary is depleting. New chickens are added, they come with trucks loaded with grain to replenish the grainary. The chicken coop grows to a population of 700. The raping & pillaging is allowed to continue.
  • In 2020, the grainary is empty. The foxes and regulator fail to pay their electricity bill. The electricity is turned off by Laurentian Bank Securities, and the party is over.
  • The 700 chickens are sent to the slaughter house & end up on the menu at Swiss Chalet.
  • The crowd watching safely from the side of the road with no skin in the game blame the chickens..... while the defence teams for the poultry farmers & foxes play the "contributory negligence" card..... laying full or at least partial blame on the chickens. Typical.

Moral of the story..... it sucks to be a chicken. Better to be a lawyer, a poultry farmer, or a fox & walk away with a suitcase full of grain.

July 10, 2021
10:52 am
gicjunkie
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I am a former GIC investor with Pace and was fortunate to escape from this company unscathed. After seeing what has transpired here, I will never invest with them again. All of these interesting analogies and anecdotes provide little solace to those who lost savings to these unscrupulous thieves. When one invests with a well-known institution, one expects to be treated with respect. Credit unions try to convey a "family" type of relationship with its customers. Recovering 50-60-70% (after costs) of an investment is a bitter pill to swallow. They should have provided complete restitution to all without argument. My heart goes out to those of you who have suffered through this ordeal and lost significant retirement savings. Hope you can all recover from this horrible experience.

Please write your comments in the forum.