Holds on transfers | Page 2 | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Holds on transfers
July 12, 2019
3:56 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9232
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

rhvic said
I recently made two transfers to EQ Bank, one from Motive and one from Hubert. The transfer from Motive took 5 business days to clear. The transfer from Hubert was accepted and available the next day!

Not sure what logic is being applied here.  

Perhaps you pulled from Motive (initiating at EQ) and pushed from Hubert?

July 12, 2019
4:33 pm
Nehpets
Ontario
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 976
Member Since:
December 20, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie said
Perhaps you pulled from Motive (initiating at EQ) and pushed from Hubert?  

Point well made, Loonie! The situation described by rhvic is unclear as to what process was used in his transaction.

It might help in our understanding when reporting on electronic fund transfers (EFT's) if the words "push" and "pull" were used, so that the source and target FI and EFT method can be better identified.

eg. Push from Hubert to Motive...or..pull from to Motive from Hubert

That way we can learn which FI's are sluggish or speeedy..

BTW I am pleased to report on same day service with a push EFT by Omnia Direct to my big 5 hub account HERE

Stephen

July 12, 2019
4:47 pm
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4217
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

rhvic said
I recently made two transfers to EQ Bank, one from Motive and one from Hubert. The transfer from Motive took 5 business days to clear. The transfer from Hubert was accepted and available the next day!

Not sure what logic is being applied here.  

How and from where did you initiate the transfers?

There should be no holds on Motive- or Hubert-originated deposits/transfers to EQ Bank. If there were, EQ Bank would be in breach of its obligations with respect to the Payments Canada regulations and I would challenge them on this. The only grounds they'd have to hold is if they suspected fraud, money laundering, or terrorist financing, for which you could challenge them to substantiate. If you pulled funds from Hubert or Motive, then EQ Bank should be holding the funds for 7 business days following the day of the deposit if over $1,500. If they are favouring Hubert, that's odd. However, in absence of screenshots substantiating this claim, I cannot independently verify that the claim is substantiated.

Cheers,
Doug

July 12, 2019
4:53 pm
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4217
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie said

Perhaps you pulled from Motive (initiating at EQ) and pushed from Hubert?  

You're a quick study, Loonie. 🙂

@Nehpets, an excellent idea. We should definitely adopt common terminology, though this is made difficult because the vast majority of people outside of Norman, Rick, Peter, myself, and a couple handfuls of others on these forums that have been educated are not aware of this subtle distinction. That said, perhaps when those that have been educated see future questions or concerns raised by a forum member, they can now do the educating (as you and @Loonie did) and clarify what method of transfer was used.

Generally, in terms of transfer processing times, I've found that the Big 5 Canadian banks, plus National Bank, Tangerine Bank, HSBC Bank Canada, Manulife Bank, Laurentian Bank, Canadian Western Bank, and most of the credit unions that clear through one of the credit union centrals to offer 1-2 EFT processing times.

The exception really is Meridian Credit Union and Motus Bank, which appear to clear directly, or by way of a third-party intermediary, rather than through a Central.

I assume Desjardins has fast 1-2 business day EFT posting timeframes. Uncertain as to Oaken Financial, Peoples Trust, and EQ Bank, among a few others.

Cheers,
Doug

July 12, 2019
7:54 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9232
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe we could use a Glossary page that we could refer people to for tricky definitions and acronyms? HELOC, BOC, "deposit broker" come to mind. They could be added as they arise, but in alphabetical order.

I remember having to ask what push and pull mean on this forum a while back, and having difficulty understanding the difference and especially what difference it made. I think I may finally have it straight!sf-cool

July 13, 2019
4:44 am
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6732
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The picture I have is that one is pushing/sending funds when one originates a direct deposit into the clearing system.

In contrast, one is pulling/requesting funds when one originates a pre-authorized debit into the clearing system.

July 13, 2019
4:49 am
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6732
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Saver-Mom said

BTW the funds are still on hold now, July 12th, transfer having been initiated the 7th, and showing online on the 8th.

The hold is "up to five (5) business days after the day you make the deposit."

So, funds could be held for Tue 9, Wed 10, Thu 11, Fri 12, and Mon 15.

July 13, 2019
5:08 am
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6732
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Doug said

Thanks, Norman. Indeed, one of those reasons with the longest return timeframe is "forged endorsement". 🙂

That's useful in cases when a cheque have been intercepted or redirected and the intended recipient's endorsement is forged to cash the cheque.

I think some of Earl Jones' victims were able recover their funds that way. Since the victim didn't know that Jones had sold their investments, the victim didn't know that a cheque was even on its way!

July 13, 2019
7:44 am
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4217
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie said
Maybe we could use a Glossary page that we could refer people to for tricky definitions and acronyms? HELOC, BOC, "deposit broker" come to mind. They could be added as they arise, but in alphabetical order.

I remember having to ask what push and pull mean on this forum a while back, and having difficulty understanding the difference and especially what difference it made. I think I may finally have it straight!sf-cool  

+1 on the Glossary idea. I think that could be useful. It could be added as a page on the "Resources" page. Potentially, Peter could configure it to allow registered members to submit or modify glossary entries, subject to approval by moderators (principally, Peter).

I think I recall you asking about push/before, Loonie. Glad you've wrapped your head around it.

Cheers,
Doug

July 13, 2019
8:04 am
Nehpets
Ontario
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 976
Member Since:
December 20, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Doug said

... I recall you asking about push/before, Loonie. Glad you've wrapped your head around it. 

When push comes to pull, Loonie's sure to be right on top of it!sf-laugh

Stephen

July 13, 2019
11:18 am
rhvic
Victoria, BC
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 465
Member Since:
May 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

rhvic said
I recently made two transfers to EQ Bank, one from Motive and one from Hubert. The transfer from Motive took 5 business days to clear. The transfer from Hubert was accepted and available the next day!

Not sure what logic is being applied here.  

Yes, as I recall, I initiated a pull at EQ to get funds from Motive, and used a push from Hubert to transfer to EQ.

Thanks for your insights.

July 13, 2019
12:59 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9232
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Nehpets said

Doug said

... I recall you asking about push/before, Loonie. Glad you've wrapped your head around it. 

When push comes to pull, Loonie's sure to be right on top of it!sf-laugh

Stephen  

sf-laugh
but when push comes to shove, I think I'd like to shove some of these rules overboard!

July 13, 2019
1:04 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9232
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Doug said

+1 on the Glossary idea. I think that could be useful. It could be added as a page on the "Resources" page. Potentially, Peter could configure it to allow registered members to submit or modify glossary entries, subject to approval by moderators (principally, Peter).

I think I recall you asking about push/before, Loonie. Glad you've wrapped your head around it.

Cheers,
Doug  

If this went forward, I might be willing to contribute a few tentative definitions.
Additional entries might include "FI" and "the December manoeuvre".

July 20, 2019
5:23 am
Saver-Mom
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 311
Member Since:
December 12, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Norman1 said

Saver-Mom said

BTW the funds are still on hold now, July 12th, transfer having been initiated the 7th, and showing online on the 8th.

The hold is "up to five (5) business days after the day you make the deposit."

So, funds could be held for Tue 9, Wed 10, Thu 11, Fri 12, and Mon 15.  

Correct. It took a full week or 5 business days plus a weekend to unblock the funds. They dinged me for an NSF but reversed it when I complained. ING used to be much more helpful with their ‘oops’ feature which would just top up your checquing from your savings account if you overdrew... Tang prefers to make $40 and tick off the client...

May 6, 2022
10:54 am
dazedndconfuzed
Newbie
Members
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
May 6, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I transferred funds from my TD to BMO yesterday and its not in BMO yet, what kinda of time line am i looking at. Why should i get dinged for transferring money? i get the whole scammer, fraud thing and if it was a huge amount of money which it isnt. Is there any bank out there that doesnt put holds on Transfers

October 30, 2022
10:11 am
Oscar
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 283
Member Since:
October 17, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Norman1 said
The picture I have is that one is pushing/sending funds when one originates a direct deposit into the clearing system.

In contrast, one is pulling/requesting funds when one originates a pre-authorized debit into the clearing system.  

"As Doug suggested, one needs to push funds to actually send money. When pushing, the transaction is final. The sender cannot afterwards take the money out of the recipient's account through the clearing system. That's why there are no holds on funds pushed using direct deposit, wire transfer, or Interac e-Transfer."

The above statements were pulled from this thread and seem logical to me but they don't seem to work in practice anymore. I had pushed funds into Alterna Bank (it's the one I have linked to Oaken) and then purchased a GIC at Oaken. Funded the GIC with a pull (PAD) into Oaken.
2 weeks passed until Oaken sent an email stating GIC was voided due to NSF. Alterna transaction details showed funds had arrived at Alterna and were pulled the next day by Oaken. PAD was reversed the next day. It took Oaken 2 weeks to realize they had not recieved the funds and cancelled the GIC.
In the end Alterna confirmed that all Me to Me transfers are subject to 5 day hold period and that was the reason Oaken debit was reversed. Oaken didn't ding me for NSF so grateful for that and so I didn't pursue this further but this is a big pain in the arse in that any funds I want to pull into Oaken have to sit in the penalty box for 5 days minimum before I attempt to pull them in.
I am curious if anyone knows if this is specifically related to the Me to Me transfer system in particular ?

October 30, 2022
11:13 am
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6732
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It doesn't look like funds were pushed into Alterna. Instead, funds were pulled into Alterna. That's why Alterna put a five day hold on the funds.

There's no hold on pushed funds. I've seen it many times: The funds are fully available when the item is posted to the destination account.

October 30, 2022
3:45 pm
dickyran333
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 60
Member Since:
November 25, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

At Tangerine, the hold on the funds is at the bank level, not at the account level, i.e., even if the funds are on hold, one can transfer the funds between their accounts at Tangerine. However, when I opened my account at Simplii, I was told that I can't transfer funds between my Simplii accounts if the funds are on hold. So the bank's policy in this regard could also vary.

October 30, 2022
3:59 pm
Oscar
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 283
Member Since:
October 17, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Norman I am positive that I initiated a push into Alterna. I have never added the other institution to my Alterna M2M transfer list so it would not have been possible to pull the funds in. That's why I decided to post my experience as it still seems to be an arbitrary process. When I was speaking with the CSR at Alterna regarding this issue I noted that I pushed the funds into Alterna and so the funds should not have been subject to hold and she told me all M2M transfers are subject to a 5 day hold period regardless of whether it was pushed or pulled. The info on their website doesn't really make their position clear as far as I could see.

October 30, 2022
4:18 pm
dickyran333
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 60
Member Since:
November 25, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It seems that pushing the funds has an obvious advantage over pulling the funds as this reduces the hold period. But does pulling the funds result in earning more interest?

Recently I initiated an EFT from my Tangerine savings account to pull funds from my Simplii savings account in the evening of Oct 25. Suppose the amount was $100K. Tangerine showed an entry (credit) in my savings account the next day on Oct 26. Simplii debited my savings account on Oct 27. So does that mean I earned interest on $100K at both banks for one day, the Oct 26th?

The funds could be on hold for 5 days but Tangerine had told me that I'd start earning interest as soon as my account shows a credit entry, even if my funds are on hold, and irrespective of when the other bank clears the funds, which could happen within 1 to 3 days. So, in my case, Tangerine should give me interest on $100K for Oct 26 even though they received the funds from Simplii on Oct 27.

And I'd assume that since Simplii debited my account on Oct 27, they would also pay me interest on $100K up to (and including) Oct 26. Am I missing something here? (I'm sure the banks wouldn't leave a loophole like this.)

Suppose I'm getting 3.5% at both banks. Then, if the above is correct, I'd earn an extra interest of $9.60 for that one day. And so for those of us who don't have to immediately transfer the funds to another bank during the hold period, should we always pull the funds?

If this loophole does exist, should one keep transferring funds, say once a week, between their bank accounts? If one has $200K and has two HISA paying 4.5% (some banks are now offering 4.75% promos), one could earn an extra interest of about $25 a week.

Again, I doubt banks would ever leave such a loophole. But then what am I missing here?

Would this fall into money laundering, etc., and the banks may question me about the frequent fund transfers?

No permission to create posts

Please write your comments in the forum.