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DUCA Earn More Promo Upgrade!
November 9, 2023
12:24 pm
mustang
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Well, it's now "offical", I guess-- just got an email back from my questioning what was going on with the HISA rate
(Not that there was any doubt, of course, by this time with other posters confirming that the 6.25 rate is now a dodo bird, and not likely to be seen again
But, I do have it in writing

November 9, 2023
12:34 pm
phrank
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All you can do is vote with your money.

November 9, 2023
12:44 pm
Christoph
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Seems pretty unfair that they changed terms on existing funds. Just logged into DUCA's website, left a message to complain about the change in rate on existing cash in the promo account and requested they grandfather in the 6.25% rate until January 31, 2024 as per the terms when the funds were deposited.

Also requested an explanation for, though the account says"No monthly fee*", the asterisked reference that says "* EMT charges apply as per usage at $1.25/transfer." Are they about to charge fees on funds transfers? No explanation.

Furthermore, I requested the message be forwarded to the credit union complaints officer requesting a final position letter on my case, asking the complaints officer to provide a letter stating the credit union's final position on my case and informing them that if not resolved in my favour, I would be filing a complaint with the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario, who handle such complaints.

If enough clients do this they may honour the terms existing funds were deposited under. Link to FSRAO explains complaints procedure.

https://www.fsrao.ca/consumers/credit-unions-and-deposit-insurance/how-resolve-complaint-against-credit-union-or-caisse-populaire

November 9, 2023
1:35 pm
Norman1
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Christoph said

Also requested an explanation for, though the account says"No monthly fee*", the asterisked reference that says "* EMT charges apply as per usage at $1.25/transfer." Are they about to charge fees on funds transfers? No explanation.

That looks like their $1.25 charge for e-mail money transfers (Interac e-transfers).

DUCA's service fee schedule is at Personal Banking Service fees.

November 9, 2023
2:50 pm
Lodown
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Christoph said
Seems pretty unfair that they changed terms on existing funds. Just logged into DUCA's website, left a message to complain about the change in rate on existing cash in the promo account and requested they grandfather in the 6.25% rate until January 31, 2024 as per the terms when the funds were deposited.

Also requested an explanation for, though the account says"No monthly fee*", the asterisked reference that says "* EMT charges apply as per usage at $1.25/transfer." Are they about to charge fees on funds transfers? No explanation.

Furthermore, I requested the message be forwarded to the credit union complaints officer requesting a final position letter on my case, asking the complaints officer to provide a letter stating the credit union's final position on my case and informing them that if not resolved in my favour, I would be filing a complaint with the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario, who handle such complaints.

If enough clients do this they may honour the terms existing funds were deposited under. Link to FSRAO explains complaints procedure.

https://www.fsrao.ca/consumers/credit-unions-and-deposit-insurance/how-resolve-complaint-against-credit-union-or-caisse-populaire  

DUCA definitely seems to have screwed up. Their advertising said 6.25% until 31 January 2024. As far as I can tell, their ads never had a link where exact terms and conditions of the offer were specified. Given this, I think there is a grandfathering case to be made under the auspices of 'false advertising'.

November 9, 2023
2:56 pm
Lodown
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savemoresaveoften said
2. Rate Change History: May 15, 2023 to July 19, 2023, the rate was 4.75%. Starting July 20, 2023, the rate automatically changed to 5.25%. Starting October 3, 2023, the rate automatically changed to 6.25% and this rate will be reflected in online banking as of October 4, 2023. Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice.

This is in the fine print. So they dont have to grandfather 6.25%.... sf-frown  

You claim this is the fine print. Can you provide a link or screenshot?

November 9, 2023
3:00 pm
davidgeorge
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davidgeorge said

Logged into my account, 5.75% rate. Transferred out all fund: limit is $50,000 per day, but with the joint account, the limit is $100,000  

The fund is in my CIBC account now. I am writing a cheque to E-deposit into my HSBC account.

November 9, 2023
3:30 pm
swcrawl
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savemoresaveoften said
so existing deposit grandfathered at 6.25%, new money 5.75% I guess.
50bps convenience charge for being able to DIY lol  

my account appear as 5.75% now.. down from 6.25%
sadly, it appears that there is no grandfathering in place

November 9, 2023
3:40 pm
RetirEd
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cgouimet:

Lots of people complain about Tangerine's offers but have they ever cut anybody short on offers like DUCA just did.

Tangerine has in the past (I'm no longer using them) cut the "base rate" to reduce total interest while qualifying as not changing the "promotional rate." Scummy. And they ratcheted the rates - they'd go down but not up!

RetirEd

November 9, 2023
3:45 pm
savemoresaveoften
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Lodown said

You claim this is the fine print. Can you provide a link or screenshot?  

Its NOT my claim. its a fact. if one just spend a couple more secs and scoll down on a email that was sent out by Duca on Oct 3. Yes the exact same email others already mentioned.
For the record, I am negatively affected by this rate change, not like I am defending DUCA either...

November 9, 2023
7:05 pm
Christoph
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Bit of false advertising here if they're reducing the rate on existing funds. Email offer states that funds (prior to the rate decrease to 5.75%) WILL earn 6.25% through January 31, 2024. About $115 interest difference per $100,000.

Wording of the October 3, 2023 email announcing the deposit rate increase to 6.25%:

Deposit rate increase to 6.25%!

Exciting news for both current and prospective Members of our 2023–2024 Earn More Promo account! Starting today, we're increasing the rate to 6.25%!

All deposits already in the 2023-2024 Earn More Promo account as well as new deposits into the account will now earn an incredible 6.25% return through January 31.

If you already had funds in the 2023–2024 Earn More Promo ...

The rate automatically increased from 5.25% to 6.25%.

No need to do anything but sit back and enjoy the rate increase. Plus, you can always add new funds to your promotional account.

And if you haven't taken advantage of this offer yet …

It's not too late! Now is your chance to open a 2023–2024 Earn More Promo account and earn 6.25% for the rest of the year.

No monthly fees
No minimum balance
No withdrawal restrictions
Daily interest paid monthly
Non-registered account

[The fine print:]

1. Eligible Deposits: To qualify for the promotional rate, deposits must be new to DUCA. Transfers from existing DUCA accounts are not eligible.
2. Rate Change History: May 15, 2023 to July 19, 2023, the rate was 4.75%. Starting July 20, 2023, the rate automatically changed to 5.25%. Starting October 3, 2023, the rate automatically changed to 6.25% and this rate will be reflected in online banking as of October 4, 2023. Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice.
3. Product Name Change: The name of the promotion account in online banking and in statements changed from "2023 Summer Earn More Promo" to "2023–2024 Earn More Promo," effective July 21, 2023.
4. Limitation: The 2023–2024 Earn More Promo is not available for the following: Access at an ATM, bill payments, telephone banking, cheque deposits through the banking app's Remote Deposit feature, or any type of e-transfer, including Me-to-Me transfers.
5. Offer expiry: Offer available through January 31, 2024. At the end of the promotional period, all funds in the Member's 2023–2024 Earn More Promo account will automatically transfer into the Member's regular (non-promotional) Earn More Savings Account.
6. Tax Implications: Interest earned is taxable.

November 9, 2023
9:26 pm
Greedy Guy
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Christoph said
Bit of false advertising here if they're reducing the rate on existing funds. Email offer states that funds (prior to the rate decrease to 5.75%) WILL earn 6.25% through January 31, 2024. About $115 interest difference per $100,000.

Wording of the October 3, 2023 email announcing the deposit rate increase to 6.25%:

Deposit rate increase to 6.25%!

Exciting news for both current and prospective Members of our 2023–2024 Earn More Promo account! Starting today, we're increasing the rate to 6.25%!

All deposits already in the 2023-2024 Earn More Promo account as well as new deposits into the account will now earn an incredible 6.25% return through January 31.

If you already had funds in the 2023–2024 Earn More Promo ...

The rate automatically increased from 5.25% to 6.25%.

No need to do anything but sit back and enjoy the rate increase. Plus, you can always add new funds to your promotional account.

And if you haven't taken advantage of this offer yet …

It's not too late! Now is your chance to open a 2023–2024 Earn More Promo account and earn 6.25% for the rest of the year.

No monthly fees
No minimum balance
No withdrawal restrictions
Daily interest paid monthly
Non-registered account

[The fine print:]

1. Eligible Deposits: To qualify for the promotional rate, deposits must be new to DUCA. Transfers from existing DUCA accounts are not eligible.
2. Rate Change History: May 15, 2023 to July 19, 2023, the rate was 4.75%. Starting July 20, 2023, the rate automatically changed to 5.25%. Starting October 3, 2023, the rate automatically changed to 6.25% and this rate will be reflected in online banking as of October 4, 2023. Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice.
3. Product Name Change: The name of the promotion account in online banking and in statements changed from "2023 Summer Earn More Promo" to "2023–2024 Earn More Promo," effective July 21, 2023.
4. Limitation: The 2023–2024 Earn More Promo is not available for the following: Access at an ATM, bill payments, telephone banking, cheque deposits through the banking app's Remote Deposit feature, or any type of e-transfer, including Me-to-Me transfers.
5. Offer expiry: Offer available through January 31, 2024. At the end of the promotional period, all funds in the Member's 2023–2024 Earn More Promo account will automatically transfer into the Member's regular (non-promotional) Earn More Savings Account.
6. Tax Implications: Interest earned is taxable.  

Last sentence of item 2: "Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice" is the "escape clause" justifying current 6.25% to 5.75% change

November 10, 2023
1:37 am
cgouimet
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Greedy Guy said

Last sentence of item 2: "Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice" is the "escape clause" justifying current 6.25% to 5.75% change  

I would interpret that item 2 as when to stop accepting new promo funds is subject to change, not the termination of 6.25%.

CGO
November 10, 2023
4:25 am
savemoresaveoften
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cgouimet said

I would interpret that item 2 as when to stop accepting new promo funds is subject to change, not the termination of 6.25%.  

Unfortunately they did start with ‘rate subject to change’ so their back side well covered and nothing we can do either than now it’s easier now to transfer the money out.

Their move did leave a bad taste in those who transfer in past month including me. But not as bad as tangerine offering me only 5% when others get 6%.

November 10, 2023
6:49 am
Lodown
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Duca large print advertising was:
"All deposits already in the 2023-2024 Earn More Promo account as well as new deposits into the account WILL now earn an incredible 6.25% return through JANUARY 31."

DUCA fine print was:
"Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice."

Analysis
a. The word WILL means "it shall happen". Therefore DUCA effectively said "you will get receive 6.25% until 31 January ....no ifs, ands or buts".
b. The words "rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice", given a. above was advertised, would imply "if the rate changes or the campaign ends, NEW customers get the new rate or can no longer sign up". There is nothing specific here about what happens to EXISTING customers.
Furthermore, all other major FI's that advertise a rate with an END DATE honor it for customers that signed up when it was offered. This includes RBC, TD, CIBC, BNS, BMO, Tangerine, etc.

So, the fact that DUCA said WILL and provided an end date, combined with DUCAs fine print being non-specific about what happens to customers who signed up before any changes, combined with the STANDARD set by other FIs who advertise a rate with an end date means DUCA must honor the rate for customers who signed up before any changes. I believe a third party, like the body that oversees FIs, would agree.
Yes, using these facts, we should all complain to DUCA and the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario.

November 10, 2023
7:41 am
cgouimet
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Lodown said
Duca large print advertising was:
"All deposits already in the 2023-2024 Earn More Promo account as well as new deposits into the account WILL now earn an incredible 6.25% return through JANUARY 31."

DUCA fine print was:
"Rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice."

Analysis
a. The word WILL means "it shall happen". Therefore DUCA effectively said "you will get receive 6.25% until 31 January ....no ifs, ands or buts".
b. The words "rate subject to change or campaign can end early without notice", given a. above was advertised, would imply "if the rate changes or the campaign ends, NEW customers get the new rate or can no longer sign up". There is nothing specific here about what happens to EXISTING customers.
Furthermore, all other major FI's that advertise a rate with an END DATE honor it for customers that signed up when it was offered. This includes RBC, TD, CIBC, BNS, BMO, Tangerine, etc.

So, the fact that DUCA said WILL and provided an end date, combined with DUCAs fine print being non-specific about what happens to customers who signed up before any changes, combined with the STANDARD set by other FIs who advertise a rate with an end date means DUCA must honor the rate for customers who signed up before any changes. I believe a third party, like the body that oversees FIs, would agree.
Yes, using these facts, we should all complain to DUCA and the Financial Services Regulatory Authority of Ontario.  

Well, for all the complaints about Tangerine's promos, at least when they offer something for 4 months, it remains for 4 months ...

CGO
November 10, 2023
11:14 am
TINAisOver
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cgouimet said

Well, for all the complaints about Tangerine's promos, at least when they offer something for 4 months, it remains for 4 months ...  

I think it's worth mentioning Tangerine has a similar "escape clause" (as mentioned before). for their special offers.

Here is paragraph 8 of the Terms and Conditions for the 6% until Jan. 31 /24 offered to me from Tang Sept 5th

"A Promotional Interest Rate of 6.00% will apply to Eligible Deposits under this Offer. Eligible Clients will receive Promotional Interest in two separate interest payments: (1) interest calculated at the Posted Rate, (2) an additional interest payment that represents the excess of Promotional Interest over Posted Rate interest (“Additional Interest”). For clarity, Promotional Interest equals the sum of Posted Rate interest and Additional Interest. Payment of Additional Interest will be made to the Applicable Account at the start of the month following the month in which it was calculated. The Posted Rate may change at any time without prior notice, resulting in a corresponding change to the Additional Interest rate so that the Promotional Interest Rate remains unchanged. Notwithstanding the above, the Bank may change the Promotional Interest Rate at any time without prior notice.

I would assume all these types of special offers from FIs have an escape clause. This is a necessary clause in case a sudden change in financial conditions would allow a FI to avoid financial peril.

Changing rates without notice on Daily savings accounts that's normal. But on a special offer just started. I don't know what to make of this, but I don't think its peril danger for DUCA to abruptly ending this offer. I decided some months ago to not open any more new FI accounts although the DUCA offer I did consider especially since there is a branch just down the the road from my home that I can walk to to open an account in person. I will never consider DUCA again after this move. I doubt I'm alone on this.

Trader first, Saver second

November 10, 2023
11:37 am
HermanH
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cgouimet said

Well, for all the complaints about Tangerine's promos, at least when they offer something for 4 months, it remains for 4 months ...  

Not always. I seem to remember a promotion that was cut short a few years back.

November 11, 2023
7:03 am
COIN
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Just to summarize. The rate cut to 5.75% is across the board (old and new money). No grandfathering. Did I get it right?

November 11, 2023
8:07 am
cgouimet
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cgouimet said

I'm guessing you will get the DIY ability to add to your promo account. But your rate is grandfathered because that's the offer they made that you accepted. Until Jan 31 ... Enjoy it ...  

Yep! DUCA making Tangerine look good ... 🙂

CGO
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