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Tangerine cash back MasterCard
October 1, 2015
7:53 pm
Loonie
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I've got the link working now. Djino has told us all the info that is on it.

More buzz, leaked to the media, I presume, as sources are not given.

October 5, 2015
8:17 pm
Shawguy
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I'm surprised Djino hasn't updated yet with the news.

On another forum there is rumours this card will launch tomorrow and there are news articles on bloomberg and the Toronto Star to support saying a credit card announcement will be made tomorrow.

October 6, 2015
12:01 am
Yatti420
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Card has been launched in a preview mode..so gotta register and see if you get picked..

Looks like rate of 19.95% and a 1.5% foreign conversion fee..

https://www.tangerine.ca/en/spending/creditcard/index.html

Money-Back Credit Card

With no annual fee, the Tangerine Money-Back Credit Card makes it easy to be smart with your money. Every purchase you make earns you cash back that you can have deposited directly back onto your Credit Card to apply towards your balance, or into a Tangerine Savings Account, each month automatically. So you’ll save money even when you’re spending. You get 2% Money-Back Rewards on your purchases in select 2% Money-Back Categories, and 1% Money-Back Rewards on all other purchases.

Unlike other credit cards, where rewards need to be requested or come with unreasonable restrictions, with the Tangerine Money-Back Credit Card, you earn unlimited Money-Back Rewards. There is no annual fee, which means you’re not paying a price to earn cash back, either. And you get your Money-Back Rewards monthly as you earn them. It’s your money, plain and simple.

Before we invite everyone to apply for the Card, we want to begin with a special Preview*. Now is your chance to be among the first group of Canadians to get the Credit Card that saves you money even when you’re spending. Just sign up for a chance to be a part of the Preview. We’ll be sending out Preview invitations in the coming weeks and months and will let you know by email if you’ve been chosen to participate.

Register Now
Features
Fees & Interest
Security
Rewards Features:

Earn 2% Money-Back Rewards on purchases in two 2% Money-Back Categories of your choice, and 1% Money-Back Rewards on all other purchases.
Have your Money-Back Rewards deposited into a Tangerine Savings Account, and get a 3rd 2% Money-Back Category.
Money-Back Rewards are earned automatically and paid monthly, and can either be applied towards your Credit Card balance or redeemed into your Savings Account.
No limit on the amount of Money-Back Rewards you can earn.
Change your 2% Money-Back Categories to suit your spending.
Orange Alerts are emailed to you so that you’re up-to-date on what's happening in your Account.
Additional Card Benefits:

1.5% Foreign Conversion Fee – one of the lowest in market
Free Cards for Authorized Users on your Account
Purchase Assurance and Extended Warranty1 – For most new purchases made anywhere in the world using your Tangerine Money-Back Credit Card, you may receive a lifetime maximum of up to $60,000 for the following insurance coverage:
Purchase Assurance, which may automatically cover loss, theft or damage, in excess of other insurance, for 90 days from the date of purchase; and
Extended Warranty, which may double the period of repair services, to a maximum of one additional year, when the original manufacturer’s warranty expires.
MasterCard Benefits:

Accepted worldwide at more than 24 million locations in over 210 countries
MasterCard Zero Liability
MasterCard Tap & Go

October 6, 2015
1:04 am
Peseta
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"Additional Card Benefits:

1.5% Foreign Conversion Fee – one of the lowest in market."

A fee is a benefit? LOL - a benefit to whom? Sad to see a bank that was once in touch with its customer base drift away into the Big 5 oblivion.

Glad that Chase is still around.

Peseta

October 6, 2015
3:49 am
djino
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Peseta said

"Additional Card Benefits:

1.5% Foreign Conversion Fee – one of the lowest in market."

A fee is a benefit? LOL - a benefit to whom? Sad to see a bank that was once in touch with its customer base drift away into the Big 5 oblivion.

Glad that Chase is still around.

Peseta

To be honest, the Chase Amazon Visa and Marriott card are the only cards in Canada that do not charge the 2.5% Foreign Currency Transaction fee. So by Tangerine only charging 1.5, does make them one of the lowest in the market (just not the lowest).

But then from my experience and from reading from others, Visa's rate for foreign transaction conversations always seems to be much higher than Mastercard/American Express (by up to 2% sometimes). Which means that even with Tangerine charging 1.5%, still could make it a better contender (compared to Chase Amazon Visa) in terms of Foreign transactions.\

October 6, 2015
4:15 am
Peseta
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Djino,

I'm not questioning the fact that it's lower than what other banks charge. But to me it seems ridiculous to call it a "benefit." It's a fee. No matter how they twist it and turn it, it's money that comes out of my pocket and into their's. I hardly see it benefiting me.

I'm no expert in differences between Visa/MasterCard conversion rates, but I'm certain that it's not 1.5% off the mid-market rate.

As long as there is a player in the market that offers a fee-free foreign purchases, Canadians at least have a choice. Apart from Chase, which you've mentioned, Rogers MasterCard also waives a forex fee to its customers.

IMO it's a missed opportunity for Tangerine, and disappointing from a bank that, arguably, preaches a no-fee philosophy. Or better said, used to preach a no-fee philosophy.

I miss ING Direct.

October 6, 2015
4:24 am
djino
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Peseta said

Djino,

I'm not questioning the fact that it's lower than what other banks charge. But to me it seems ridiculous to call it a "benefit." It's a fee. No matter how they twist it and turn it, it's money that comes out of my pocket. I hardly see it benefiting me.

I hear what you are saying and I agree "somewhat", but the reality is "the saving in fees" can still be considered a benefit compared to not "saving in fees" elsewhere, if you are looking at the definition of what "benefit" means.

I'm no expert in differences between Visa/MasterCard conversion rates, but I'm certain that it's not 1.5% off the mid-market rate.

I don't get it. If you have little knowledge on the conversation rates, then how can you be certain?

As long as there is a player in the market that offers a fee-free foreign purchases, Canadians at least have a choice.

Absolutely. Agreed!

IMO it's a missed opportunity for Tangerine, and disappointing from a bank that, arguably, preaches a no-fee philosophy. Or better said, used to preach a no-fee philosophy.

I miss ING Direct.

I somewhat agree with you here, especially concerning recent years of Tangerine Savings Account Interest Rates that are not very competitive (outside of their limit time bonus rates).

But the Foreign Currency Rate is infact a GREAT rate. Yes there is ONE other bank out there that has 0%, but that is one bank in how many? Tangerine does not have to be the best at everything under the sun.

I still give credit to them in this case as they are still cheaper than any other credit card issuer other than Chase.

djino

October 6, 2015
5:15 am
Peseta
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Djino,

When I said I was no expert, what I meant was that I don't track every cent difference that might be between Visa and MasterCard at all times. I know for a fact, though, that even though they are not identical all the time, they are very comparable. I have Sears MasterCard and a friend has Amazon Visa. Side-by-side comparison revealed very little difference between the two. So no, I'm not an expert but I have a pretty good knowledge as a user.

If you allow me to correct you, Amazon and Marriott cards are not the only ones with no forex fees. Rogers recent MasterCard offer also waives the fee.

If we start dissecting what "benefit" really means, then banks could argue that by the virtue of the fact that they keep our money for 0% apr is a "benefit" because our money with them in safer than keeping cash at home. Other banks can argue that, even with forex fees, being able to use your card abroad is a "benefit" because of all the convenience. Try selling this argument to a customer. I see it more as a service, and I'm ok if the bank sells it as such, calls it what it is, and charges me for it. That forex fee belongs in a "fees" column (where it's listed) and not the benefits column, that's my whole point.

Tangerine's forex rate is better than what the majority of the banks offer, but I wouldn't call it a GREAT rate because there is something better out there. If that was the best offer in town, then I would probably agree with you.

Looks like you seem pleased with the offer and I hope you enjoy using the card. I agree that Tangerine doesn't have to have the best of everything under the sun. Thats what other banks are for. The beauty of competition is that we are free to chose products that best fit our needs. I, personally, did want to have a credit card with Tangerine because I like their other products and I wanted to have chequing and credit card under one roof. That's why I was looking forward to it. But as long as there is something else out there that better meets my spending/saving needs, I have no reason to apply for it.

Peseta

October 6, 2015
6:55 am
djino
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Peseta said

Djino,

When I said I was no expert, what I meant was that I don't track every cent difference that might be between Visa and MasterCard at all times. I know for a fact, though, that even though they are not identical all the time, they are very comparable. I have Sears MasterCard and a friend has Amazon Visa. Side-by-side comparison revealed very little difference between the two. So no, I'm not an expert but I have a pretty good knowledge as a user.

That may have been a once time occurrence not within recent times. There is a redflagdeals thread on the Amazon card (I can post the thread for you if you wish) that has tons of complaints about this very issue with people comparing it to Mastercard and American Express. It is clear that Visa has a higher rate of conversation in all cases compared to the other two (sometimes even up to a 2.2% difference).

But in the end, it was still worth it to use the Amazon card since there is not the additional 2.5% Foreign Currency Fee on top of the conversation like all other cards.

But now that Tangerine has a card where the Fee is lowed to 1.5% and its from Mastercard, may likely make the Tangerine card superior over the Amazon Chase. I will likely do a few test with the two cards on multiple occasions to see.

If you allow me to correct you, Amazon and Marriott cards are not the only ones with no forex fees. Rogers recent MasterCard offer also waives the fee.

Yes you are correct on that. I knew about the Rogers card, but since that card came with an Annual fee on top of it really only being beneficial (in Rewards) to Rogers clients, I never really considered it to be a card worth discussing.

If we start dissecting what "benefit" really means, then banks could argue that by the virtue of the fact that they keep our money for 0% apr is a "benefit" because our money with them in safer than keeping cash at home.

Although that can be considered a benefit, that argument you make is not a valid comparison. When shopping for a Mortgage Rate, Mortgage lender A offering Prime minus 0.5 compared to Mortgage lender B offering prime minus 0.8 . They are both Charging Interest Fees, but Lender B has the "BENEFIT" of a lower rate. Or by the fact that if I sell my home before the Mortgage term is complete, one lender may charge less fees then another which makes it a benefit of signing up with that lender.

My point is that lower fees being charged in one aspect of a product being offered at multiple companies can be seen as a BENEFIT.

Tangerine's forex rate is better than what the majority of the banks offer, but I wouldn't call it a GREAT rate because there is something better out there. If that was the best offer in town, then I would probably agree with you.

Why do you insist that something cannot be GREAT even when its better than MOST rates out there? I am not saying GREAT = BEST, just that its GREAT because it beats almost ALL.

Looks like you seem pleased with the offer and I hope you enjoy using the card. I agree that Tangerine doesn't have to have the best of everything under the sun. Thats what other banks are for. The beauty of competition is that we are free to chose products that best fit our needs. I, personally, did want to have a credit card with Tangerine because I like their other products and I wanted to have chequing and credit card under one roof. That's why I was looking forward to it. But as long as there is something else out there that better meets my spending/saving needs, I have no reason to apply for it.

Peseta

Its a competitive offer as a whole, but it won't really compete with the cards I already use. I have the no annual fee version of the MBNA RWE which provides 2% on ALL purchases (regardless of category).

I only discuss this having a competitive advantage to me personally involving foreign transactions. As although I have the Chase Amazon Visa, Visa's conversation rate is often always higher than Mastercard which could make the Tangerine Mastercard better.

djino

October 6, 2015
7:18 am
Peter
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Agreed that this card is rather underwhelming. I won't be applying for it, but it could serve a purpose for someone who wants to get 2% in a traditionally ignored purchase category (other than the standard gas / grocery / restaurants that other cards focus on) and/or if you like the integration with your Tangerine bank accounts.

I think that Tangerine had begun to lose its edge even before the Scotiabank takeover. But I still continue to do a lot of banking there because its joint account interface is smooth :) And the occasional promos, although annoying (in the sense that I wish the normal rates were simpler higher and that you sometimes have to jump through a few hoops), are helpful.

October 6, 2015
7:44 am
Peseta
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Djino,

I have a zero desire to engage into this back and forth with you. As a customer I've said what I had to say, and that was the only purpose of my post. I have no other interest whatsoever. If you think that Tangerine's offer is GREAT, then more power to you. You are entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you. Simple as that. Get the card and both you and Tangerine will be happy, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

With respect to Visa and MasterCard exchange rates, I just ran a conversion of 1 EUR to CAD on their respective websites and these are the results for Oct 5:

MasterCard: €1 = $1.48
Visa: €1 = $1.49

So, yes, Visa has a higher rate and that was known to me but it definitely does not amount to a drastic difference. Definitely not worth getting a card that charges you 1.5% on top of MC rate.

Take care.

Peseta

October 6, 2015
8:18 am
djino
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Peseta said

Djino,

I have a zero desire to engage into this back and forth with you. As a customer I've said what I had to say, and that was the only purpose of my post. I have no other interest whatsoever.

That is fine. I on the other hand have no issues with discussing anything with you and take no offence (as you apparently are taking in what I have written) in any topics we have discussed. I value your opinions which I separate from things you have stated as facts.

When it comes to your opinions, I will state whether I agree or disagree with it (along with my reasons why) and do not expect you or anyone else to change your opinion to inline with mine.

When it comes to facts that I find that are incorrect, I won't be afraid to call you on it as I would anyone else (so you should not have to take it personally), but I suppose this offends you, but unfortunately, that is not my issue. I also would not take offence to any facts that I may be incorrect about (as you did in the Rogers Mastercard example).

But I suppose you are only interested in discussing topics in which people are in complete agreement with you on and if I am correct, I'm sorry, I suppose you won't care for what I will continue to post in the future.

If you think that Tangerine's offer is GREAT, then more power to you. You are entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with you. Simple as that. Get the card and both you and Tangerine will be happy, and at the end of the day that's all that matters.

The issue there is that of a definition issue. You seem to consider the word GREAT as being equal to BEST. Just as it appears you consider the word BENEFIT to be incorrectly used to describe a product offering lower fees than its competitors. I simply do not agree, but I will concede and agree that this is just my opinion that you do not share.

With respect to Visa and MasterCard exchange rates, I just ran a conversion of 1 EUR to CAD on their respective websites and these are the results for Oct 5:

MasterCard: €1 = $1.48
Visa: €1 = $1.49

So, yes, Visa has a higher rate and that was known to me but it definitely does not amount to a drastic difference. Definitely not worth getting a card that charges you 1.5% on top of MC rate.

Take care.

Peseta

I'm glad you took the time to look it up and to see what I have been stating all along. And just to point out there are often times were the differences in rates can go up to 2.2% which "could" then make the Tangerine Mastercard worth using. But since the differences will be very small, this is the reason why I would likely test it out multiple times to look at the differences over time and then make the decision at some point to permanently use one card over the other for Forex transactions.

djino

October 6, 2015
8:38 am
Shawguy
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They posted the 10 categories you can choose from for 2% cash-back

-groceries
-restaurants
-drug store
-entertainment
-furniture
-gas
-hotel/motel
-home improvement
-parking/public
-recurring bills

October 6, 2015
8:45 am
djino
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SG said

They posted the 10 categories you can choose from for 2% cash-back

-groceries
-restaurants
-drug store
-entertainment
-furniture
-gas
-hotel/motel
-home improvement
-parking/public
-recurring bills

Interesting.

October 6, 2015
11:16 am
Loonie
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That's quite an exhaustive discussion on the differences between Amazon Chase Visa and Tang MC! I was not really aware of the problem of the difference in exchange rate so thank you both for pointing that out.

I would be interested to follow these rates for a while, including Amex's rate. So, if anyone is following them, please post. Or maybe someone could post the links where the rates are available? I don't understand why it should fluctuate so much and why one should always be more expensive than another.

Now, getting on to the categories of purchases, that's a strange list. I mean, how many people buy furniture every month?

My question would be, how frequently, if at all, can you change your choice of categories?

I think I'd like a category called "media". This would cover cell phone, internet, cable, wired phone, computer stores, phone stores, etc.

Or how about one called "insurance", which would cover car, home, cottage, life, disability, extended warranties, supplementary health, crop insurance for farmers, liability for small business, travel health and anything else I haven't thought of. These are both substantial categories from my perspective.

And my 3rd category would be "Wholesale Stores", i.e. Costco.

With these 3 categories this would be a terrific card and I would definitely sign up. Right now, not so sure.

October 6, 2015
11:58 am
djino
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Loonie said

That's quite an exhaustive discussion on the differences between Amazon Chase Visa and Tang MC! I was not really aware of the problem of the difference in exchange rate so thank you both for pointing that out.

I would be interested to follow these rates for a while, including Amex's rate. So, if anyone is following them, please post. Or maybe someone could post the links where the rates are available? I don't understand why it should fluctuate so much and why one should always be more expensive than another.

I can't find an online currency calculator for American Express, but Visa and Mastercard are as follows.
- Visa -> https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html
- Mastercard -> https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

Also note that one item that makes the Tangerine card better than Amazon is that the Amazon card does not have Extended Warranty where the Tangerine's card does.

Now, getting on to the categories of purchases, that's a strange list. I mean, how many people buy furniture every month?

It may be a good combination if one uses this card in combination of others. Example, the Smart Cash gives 2% back from Gas/Groceries. You could then use the Tangerine card and pick 3 other categories to get your 2% from.

My question would be, how frequently, if at all, can you change your choice of categories?

Good question. My assumption is that you can change once per monthly cycle and whatever categories are in place at the end of the monthly cycle will be used to count the entire month's cash back. *shrugs*, that would be the simplest way to do it.

I think I'd like a category called "media". This would cover cell phone, internet, cable, wired phone, computer stores, phone stores, etc.

cell phone/internet/cable/wired phone can all be covered under Recurring bill payments category that you can choose from.

As for Computer Stores and Phone stores, you could buy gift cards at the stores that represent other category. Example: You can buy Best Buy gift cards at the Gas Station, which means you could select Gas station as one of your Tangerine Categories.

Or how about one called "insurance", which would cover car, home, cottage, life, disability, extended warranties, supplementary health, crop insurance for farmers, liability for small business, travel health and anything else I haven't thought of. These are both substantial categories from my perspective.

Again, all those can already be counted as "Recurring Bill payments", this assuming you can simply provide your Tangerine Mastercard info and they can automatically take payment from it.

And my 3rd category would be "Wholesale Stores", i.e. Costco.

With these 3 categories this would be a terrific card and I would definitely sign up. Right now, not so sure.

Costco would likely be your only issue as I do not believe they could fit into any available category of spending unless there was someway you could purchase Costco Cash cards at some other vendor that does qualify.

djino

October 6, 2015
12:58 pm
djino
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I'm not sure if you all also have heard of a company called Plastiq (Website -> Plastiq.com).

They allow you to make Bill Payments that are charged to your credit card. Plastiq charges fees that are anywhere from 1-1.99% depending on the Bill Payee Name.

Why would one use them?

There are many bills people would need to pay that do not allow payment by credit card.
- Hydro
- Property Taxes
- Student Loans
Along with many others.

Typically one either makes a bill payment or sets up a pre-authorized debit which comes out of your checking account collecting 0%.

By using Plastiq, you could setup to pay those items by credit card. The only issue now is the Plastiq fee. Now if you use a Credit card that provides a higher reward/cashback then the fee charged by plastiq means you make something back where you would have made zero and allows further consolidation of bills to ones credit card (and allows a further grace period repayment of that bill back to the credit card).

Since you could setup Plastiq Bill payments as a recurring bill payment would mean that you could potentially collect 2% back by choosing "recurring bill payment" as a Tangerine category.

I currently do this with my MBNA 2% Rewards World Elite for Hydro Quebec, my 2 National Student Loan accounts, my property tax, and the school taxes.

djino

October 6, 2015
2:47 pm
Loonie
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Good ideas,djino!

I think you're right that most of the media expenses are or could be recurring expenses. I don't always have them set up that way.

It's more difficult with insurance. Not all policies will accept credit card payment. Our supplementary health does not, for example, and we have no choice about it as it is connected to retirement arrangements. Same with life insurance. We normally pay the house and car in one lump but this could be switched to recurring when they next come due. Travel health is not a recurring expense, and our life insurance won't accept credit cards.
Last time I asked, it cost more to pay car and house on a monthly basis, which, if still true, would need to be taken into consideration.
I wonder if "recurring" has to mean monthly or bi-monthly. Could it mean annually? For example, CAA (which is a kind of insurance in my view) is only paid once a year but you can set it up for automatic CC billing.

Had not heard of plastiq. There are definitely some possibilities there for bills that can be paid by CC as recurring.

With interest rates so low, an extra 1%, even on money that you have to pay out, is getting to be a big deal! If you spend $25,000 on CC/yr, 1% is $250.

thanks for the links.

October 6, 2015
3:42 pm
djino
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To correct my assumption made in my previous reply....

https://www.tangerine.ca/en/faq/spending/creditcard/index.html#q5

What if I want to change my 2% Money-Back Categories?

You can make 2% Money-Back Category changes at any time after you activate your Credit Card. This first change will take effect on the next monthly statement date. After that, you can request further changes at any time, but the new 2% Money-Back Categories will only take effect on the first monthly statement date after the existing categories have been in place for 90 days.

djino

October 7, 2015
9:03 am
djino
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One of the topics I believe discussed where if the Tangerine card was better in terms of Forex transactions. This might be some good info.

Amazon Visa: 1% Cashback = 1%

Tangerine (Bonus Interest Category): 2% Cashback - 1.5% Forex + x = 0.5% + x

Tangerine (Non Bonus Category): 1% Cashback - 1.5% Forex + x = x - 0.5%

All Other Mastercards: y% Cashback - 2.5% Forex + x

Where x = The Difference between Mastercard Foreign Currency Conversion compared to Visa Foriegn Currency Conversation. The past has shown that Mastercard has a better rate in comparison to Visa.

To decide between the two cards (Amazon Visa / Tangerine Mastercard) would be to know if you are making a purchase that would qualify as a Bonus cashback category with Tangerine in addition to knowing the Spread between Visa/Mastercard at the time of purchase.

Conclusion:
- If the foreign purchase qualifies as a Tangerine bonus category, then as long as the spread between Mastercard/Visa is at least 0.5%, Tangerine is better.
- If the foreign purchase qualifies as in your non bonus category, then as long as the spread between Mastercard/Visa is at least 1.5%, Tangerine is better.

Historical Data (From the past week):
- Mon October 5th ($1 USD -> X CAD) Visa Rate = 1.327267; Mastercard Rate = 1.313300; Difference = 1.06%
- Fri October 2th ($1 USD -> X CAD) Visa Rate = 1.333467; Mastercard Rate = 1.324800; Difference = 0.65%
- Thu October 1st ($1 USD -> X CAD) Visa Rate = 1.343366; Mastercard Rate = 1.329200; Difference = 1.07%
- Wed September 30th ($1 USD -> X CAD) Visa Rate = 1.345865; Mastercard Rate = 1.342700; Difference = 0.24%

Here are the numbers for EUR:
Mon October 5: Visa 1.498634; MC 1.482922; Difference 1.05%
Fri October 2: Visa 1.490648; MC 1.499616; Difference -0.60%
Thu October 1: Visa 1.512537; MC 1.490237; Difference 1.50%
Wed September 30: Visa 1.516289; MC 1.508996; Difference 0.48%

djino

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