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tax free savings account
December 30, 2021
2:29 pm
Alexandre
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Just because a company is fairly big (or popular), doesn't make it 'Blue Chip'. Nortel & BlackBerry never fit this bill.

You can tell, I don't even care. I googled these two before replying to you and somewhere on the Internet someone said they were, indeed, 'Blue Chip.'
My ignorance is the blessing of not worrying about stock market at all.

What if you live to 110? I think that folks are actually worried about running out at the very end.

I own my house. If I live till 100 (hooray!) when I about to run out of money in my example, I'll sell it and that should be enough for remaining few years at nice assisted living facility, when I should be anyway, by that age.

By the way, being 80 and planning to live to 100 makes little sense as your life expectancy at that point is about 8 more years or so

Thanks for supporting my point (even if you didn't intend to). sf-smile

Thanks to today's Inflation, with HISA's & GIC's, we're not winning ... we're Losing

Yes, that mentality is hard to overcome, and this is how financial markets entice people to pour their savings into stocks.
Thanks to low interest rates my net worth in 2021 declined by $600. True number.
I am losing, all right, should I join hordes of people pumping their hard earned dollars into Ponzi scheme of stock markets? I don't think so.

Saving at guaranteed rates is actually damage-control..... but you're not going to lose 20 percent of your savings in a few days which could easily happen to risk-takers in an unpredictable market.

THANK YOU!

December 30, 2021
5:50 pm
savemoresaveoften
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Alexandre said

Just because a company is fairly big (or popular), doesn't make it 'Blue Chip'. Nortel & BlackBerry never fit this bill.

You can tell, I don't even care. I googled these two before replying to you and somewhere on the Internet someone said they were, indeed, 'Blue Chip.'
My ignorance is the blessing of not worrying about stock market at all.

What if you live to 110? I think that folks are actually worried about running out at the very end.

I own my house. If I live till 100 (hooray!) when I about to run out of money in my example, I'll sell it and that should be enough for remaining few years at nice assisted living facility, when I should be anyway, by that age.

By the way, being 80 and planning to live to 100 makes little sense as your life expectancy at that point is about 8 more years or so

Thanks for supporting my point (even if you didn't intend to). sf-smile

Thanks to today's Inflation, with HISA's & GIC's, we're not winning ... we're Losing

Yes, that mentality is hard to overcome, and this is how financial markets entice people to pour their savings into stocks.
Thanks to low interest rates my net worth in 2021 declined by $600. True number.
I am losing, all right, should I join hordes of people pumping their hard earned dollars into Ponzi scheme of stock markets? I don't think so.

Saving at guaranteed rates is actually damage-control..... but you're not going to lose 20 percent of your savings in a few days which could easily happen to risk-takers in an unpredictable market.

THANK YOU!  

@Alexandre,
You seem to think/say stock market is evil, ponzu scheme etc, which is an extreme way of looking at the world.
Let me remind you, the pooling of investment in the stock market allows financial resource to ultimately improve EVERYTHING you life depends on. Yes that includes the prescription drugs you take, the filtration of the water you are drinking, the electricity that are using to type your replies, the list is endless. Without capital market, human kind will be advanced in a much slower place. That’s exactly the reason we have advanced so much in the last 100 years than the thousands and thousands of years combined earlier.

December 30, 2021
7:01 pm
Kidd
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February 27, 2018
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SaveMoreSaveOften.

The fundamentals of a company selling shares, to raise capital, to expand the business have changed dramatically. The initial premise was... you share in our success because you own part of our business.

With low interest rates, a company could just borrow the money to expand BUT that would require the business having to pay the loan back, and that just wouldn't be right.

The telecom Rogers. There recent family feud openly displayed. Your shares in Rogers do NOT give you any control or say in the business side of the equation. The family owes, the family runs the business. The company is theirs.

General Motors needed money. So they zeroed the value of their existing shares and then, they just issued more.

Companies that have a zero book value, companies that shouldn't even be listed, are allowed to sell shares and people eat those shares up. At one point in time, there was a correlation. If a company made a profit, their share value went up.

In today's market, share prices ARE over valued... the same as house prices. If you're willing to pay $10 for something that has the value of $1, that's up to you. It's a game of musical chairs, or hot potato.

December 31, 2021
10:23 am
savemoresaveoften
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Kidd said
SaveMoreSaveOften.

The fundamentals of a company selling shares, to raise capital, to expand the business have changed dramatically. The initial premise was... you share in our success because you own part of our business.

With low interest rates, a company could just borrow the money to expand BUT that would require the business having to pay the loan back, and that just wouldn't be right.

The telecom Rogers. There recent family feud openly displayed. Your shares in Rogers do NOT give you any control or say in the business side of the equation. The family owes, the family runs the business. The company is theirs.

General Motors needed money. So they zeroed the value of their existing shares and then, they just issued more.

Companies that have a zero book value, companies that shouldn't even be listed, are allowed to sell shares and people eat those shares up. At one point in time, there was a correlation. If a company made a profit, their share value went up.

In today's market, share prices ARE over valued... the same as house prices. If you're willing to pay $10 for something that has the value of $1, that's up to you. It's a game of musical chairs, or hot potato.  

For sure there are stocks that are way overvalued like all the meme stocks. At the same time it is also the stock market does provide capital esp to innovations / tech / engineering to improve the standard of living for all, be it agriculture, pharmaceutical or even something as controversial as social media.

Rogers is an exception, most publicly traded companies are NOT dual share structure. An investor can decide if that type of ownership structure is not their cup of tea.
Also shareholders do have a say, thats what the annual voting is for. From what I know, the majority of retail investors dont even vote, with the mindset they are too small to matter. If enough retail investors can push a meme stock sky high and slaughter the pro on the way, so can retail investors make a difference in board of director election etc. It is just that most choose not to exercise their right.
There are always incapable CEOs making $$$$$ a year while running a biz to the ground, but there are also many CEOs running upstarts that ends up making the world a better place. Stock market is not all evil is all I am saying.

December 31, 2021
10:30 am
Bill
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If someone is willing to pay $10 for something then that's what it's worth, a $1 valuation would have no basis. No-one's saying it'll always be worth $10, future could be higher or lower, but at the time of the transaction that's its value.

December 31, 2021
1:54 pm
Alexandre
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Bill said
If someone is willing to pay $10 for something then that's what it's worth, a $1 valuation would have no basis.

If some eccentric person comes to hardware store and insists paying $1,000 for a standard Phillips screwdriver, that does not make this screwdriver suddenly worth $1,000. Even hardware store owner, who would happily take $1,000, could agree with that.

It gets even more ridiculous when stock valuation principle is applied to that example. Just because someone bought Phillips screwdriver for $1,000, suddenly all Phillips screwdrivers worth $1,000. Your 'portfolio' of screwdrivers in your household is making you rich!

This is where financial analysts come and insist you must buy more screwdrivers at $1,000, because by their financial models by the end of next year screwdrivers will go for $2,000.
If that suddenly does not materialize, they'll just apologize by publishing Alert: The Best Screwdriver Model We Have Just Failed, or something like that.

But wait, there is more! 2021 brought us people who point at unfairness between those who have screwdrivers and have nots. These enlightened people recommend unrealized capital gains tax on screwdrivers. For each screwdriver at your household, valued at $1,000, you now owe about $300 in taxes.

December 31, 2021
4:33 pm
Loonie
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Interesting book explains some pricing behaviours and responses to them from psychological viewpoint:

Priceless : the myth of fair value (and how to take advantage of it), by Poundstone, William (New York : Hill and Wang, 2010).

If you study what it has to say, you may save some money!sf-smile

December 31, 2021
5:58 pm
savemoresaveoften
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This is where financial analysts come and insist you must buy more screwdrivers at $1,000, because by their financial models by the end of next year screwdrivers will go for $2,000.

I do agree with you that equity analysts in general is just a shameless bunch.

As for unrealized capital gain tax proponents, they are just a bunch of losers who envy the wealth made by all investors, either by luck or skill/knowledge. Just like you dont get someone to pay their future employment income tax today, you cant tax an unrealized profit. Both may not materialize after all....

December 31, 2021
6:39 pm
Bill
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Alexandre, you're right, the occasional "eccentric" person does not establish the value of something, either in goods or stocks. But the mass of transactions, luckily, are made by people in relative control of their faculties freely entering into buy and sell transactions that they see as advantageous to themselves, on both sides of these transactions, and the accumulation of those millions of relatively-rational people/transactions is what establishes price levels.

And no-one can "insist you must buy", we all know no such obligation exists. From the hundreds or more marketing imperatives we all get bombarded with every day (not just from financial analysts but from everybody who has something to sell) we act on very few, if any, of them on any given day.

January 1, 2022
12:36 pm
RetirEd
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"Value" is exactly what you can get for something. Not what some extreme person may be willing to pay, but what you can readily get on competitive markets.
RetirEd

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