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Tangerine Winter Savings 2017 Promotion
January 5, 2017
5:32 pm
fbeaulie
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Yas said

WOW

Are you sure no transactions at all? It should show the interests as interests. Do you see that? This is amazing. I wonder how if you had $500 instead of $0.05.

No deposit or withdrawal on my side.

Exactly that:

1-Jan-2017 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.51 Balance 1.61
1-Dec-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.25 Balance 1.10
1-Oct-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.46 Balance 0.85
1-Sep-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.21 Balance 0.39
1-Jul-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.13 Balance 0.18
1-Jun-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.05 Balance 0.05

sf-laugh

January 5, 2017
8:13 pm
Yas
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Why don't you deposit $100 and see what happens? Lol

January 5, 2017
8:13 pm
moneyman
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Finally got a good promo offer. 3.25%. Was just about to transfer to ZAG as they don't have limits on EFT at 1.65%. Saw the promo on my account. Apparently there is no activation needed. Tangerine is about as consistent in applying promos as is President elect on tweeting policy. If trump gets his infrastructure spending going along with tax cuts you will see inflation and tangerine offering 2017 year end promos at 4.9%. Hopefully it will pay to be a saver again.

January 5, 2017
11:56 pm
Loonie
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OK, here goes...:

I have not gotten any promo rates from Tang for the previous 2 quarters since I moved out a large chunk. Also transferred out RSP. Don't have chequing or credit card. Client since 1990s. Never had TFSA there. have usually called in for retention promos and gotten them, but have lot interest in the last year.

But, today, spouse got 3.25 offer on new money, so it was worth looking into.

I too got this rate when I called in. This is the same offer exactly that Doug got, terms reported in his link above, I think it was post number 11?

BUT, here's the catch.

After over 2 hours on the phone, on hold, being disconnected, talking to 3 different people including a supervisor, I found out that despite the wording in term number 17, what they really mean is that if you have a joint account with someone, and the other person also got this offer, then you are both considered "Eligible".
Being "Eligible" means that whatever money is in either or both (if you have 2 of them) of your joint accounts will count as "old" money for BOTH of you. (Double jeopardy.) So, unlike previous offers, if you are the secondary on a joint account of someone who also got the same promo, that money will not qualify for the promo. I asked a lot of questions, and this was the definitive answer. At this point, I explained that the offer was essentially worthless to me because spouse has significant amount in their joint account.

Because of all the aggravation and because they value my business so highly as a long term customer (sf-surprised), I was offered 2% on all savings, old and new, for 3 months; and I took it. I really prefer this arrangement, and 2$ is my standard for this year. I'm hoping to average out to this amount on savings accounts and one year GICs. So far, I'm meeting the target, at least til April.

Something else to beware of with this 3.25 offer, especially for people who are new at rate roulette, is that while it also applies to RSP and TFSA, you can expect the rate to revert to 0.8 in April, at which point you will be charged $45 to get it transferred to another financial institution. Unless you are moving in a large RSP, it won't likely be worth your while. I note also that they discriminate against seniors by excluding RIFs from the promo. At age 71, you may no longer own RSPs and must convert them to RIFs or annuities or take the cash out and pay massive taxes.

My experience appears to contradict Doug's emerging theory. Might as well give up, Doug. Their systems are not discernible.sf-cry

All I feel I can say with perhaps 75% confidence, is that eventually they will make an offer you will likely be interested in, whether it's specifically for you or a more general one for anybody. If you don't like what's on offer at a given time or can't be bothered playing the game, just take your money elsewhere and forget about it until they come up with something that's worth your while. They're not the only bank around..
I also have a theory, probably unprovable, that they are on a bit of a fishing expedition. They want to know how much you're worth in cash. If you should contribute 500K because of a great offer, you won't likely get that offer very often because they've found out what they want to know but they don't really want to give you a high rate of interest on an ongoing basis. They want to use that info to market other things to you.

January 6, 2017
10:26 am
Slybanking
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Happy new year everybody. I accepted the 2% for my balance on Dec 24th. Just checked my account and obviously I did not get any offer. My question is I basically emptied my wife's accounts last May and did not get any kind of offer since then. Do I have to literally put them to Zero to have any chance to get an special offer in her accounts?

January 6, 2017
10:33 am
christinad
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I thought i'd share the foolish thing I did which underlies why perhaps it is not a good idea to be switching accounts. I set up a link in eq to tangerine and set up a transfer to empty out tangerine. The problem was I forgot the link was to my chequing account and the money was still in the savings account. This resulted in an nsf charge at tangerine but eq says I won't be charged on their end. If you could nickname accounts at Hubert I think I would just keep all my money there rather then switching around. If anyone knows how to do this let me know.

January 6, 2017
11:30 am
Joebart
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Hi everybody,
here goes my 3 cents wisdom (earned at the last promo)
No matter which theory you believe in, nothing is for certain.
I have moved my quote large sum of money on the last day of promo December 31 to checking account and initiated transfers to EQ Bank on EQ side. Money was moved to EQ January 5 due to holidays.
At the snapshot date it was all in checking. Did I got an offer?
Noooooooooo and I am giving up my expectation.
I might call in a few say and ask but I do not bet on it.
My point is whatever you think it is a good way to get decent interest at Tangerine it probably false . I am being tired if that game and might not came back.

January 6, 2017
5:13 pm
Doug
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2of3aintbad said

I have never been able to understand why moving from savings to chequing resets the total balances. Tangerine 'knows' when you moved your money from savings to chequing, and they know if it was for the purpose of paying a bill or transferring out to another institution. Why would they offer the same 3.25% for 'new money' from another institution if all it takes is to move it back from chequing?

Agree with you there but, that said, I appreciate it - makes it easier for us! PC Financial (and others) actually require funds to be completely out of the institution to qualify. sf-cool

Guess Tangerine's thinking is by only requiring the funds to be in Chequing, they stand an easier chance of retaining the funds? :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
5:20 pm
Doug
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RicksBank said

EQ limits outgoing EFTs to $30k per transaction, but I don't see any daily total limit. I just submitted 5 transfers to move it all back to Tangerine. It says "Please allow 2-3 business days for your funds to be transferred".

The EQ Bank limit of $30,000 on outgoing EFTs would be for funds transfers initiated, or "pushed," from within EQ Bank. You can instead submit one request "pulling" the funds to Tangerine from within Tangerine (this is what I typically do as, as a bonus, you get a day or two (or three if a weekend or holiday) of "double interest" on the same money at two FIs). Downside is funds are subject to standard hold period, subject to your "access to deposited funds limit," if any. But, it's a "savings" account afterall. With Tangerine, a few years ago, they added a cool feature they told me about called "hold transfers" which means you can still transfer the "held funds" at Tangerine internally to another of your Tangerine accounts and the hold will automatically transfer over. Sometimes, a "straggling" hold will remain on the remaining funds in the old account (i.e., transferring less than what's held, for instance) but a call to Tangerine fixes this as they can manually transfer that over too. :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
5:29 pm
Doug
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Righand said
That's fine Doug, except for one small detail. You cannot move out a large amount without phoning in (no longer sitting quiet) and then after the CSR interrogation process (as if you are some kind of an idiot, "Do you have any other offers ?", none of their effing business, they offer you a new rate which you accept (and then you are out of luck for any new offers)sf-cry

Thanks for that, Righand. I think I see a potential, recurring problem here. I assumed everyone was calling in before a new offer asking for a new offer to retain their deposits - and that likely does happen. In your example, it sounds like they are offering you the retention bonus and you got that because you're trying to "push" the funds to another FI in advance of the offer (that's great as that's what I've suggested). My only suggestion for next time: instead of "pushing" funds out from within Tangerine to a linked external account, login at your other FI and "pull" funds in ("pulling" funds in typically have larger transfer limits, if any). Yes, this may make them subject to a hold period for 7-10 calendar days but less transfers required.

In my questions asked, in light of this information, if people could share whether their "retention offers" were solicited by Tangerine as a result of needing to phone in to "push" funds out of Tangerine or calling in and requesting such an offer to "front run" any new bonus offer. I'm hoping if the former, that won't affect what, if any, future offers people receive.

Thanks to Winnie, Christina, RicksBank and others for their feedback. If you can answer that last question, it'd be appreciated. I'll try and analyze the patterns over the weekend.

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
5:38 pm
Doug
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Righand said

RicksBank said

Righand - what do you consider a "large amount"? I moved $136k in 2 EFTs recently (initiated from EQ).

360k, I usually only deposit 100k per institution /per CDIC coverage but because TING is BNS related, I held my nose.

That said, I've just about had enough of their shenanigans and have come to the point where it's no longer worth the trouble of constantly being jerked around.

Staying within your CDIC limits is your choice, Righand. However, point of note: The Bank of Nova Scotia, which owns Tangerine Bank, is a separate CDIC issuer. You can always check the CDIC issuer on any Canadian bank's /CDIC member's website easily enough. As such, BNS and Tangerine pay separate deposit insurance premiums to CDIC. BNS also owns Hollis Canadian Bank, National Trust, Montreal Trust, Scotia Mortgage Corp and The Bank of Nova Scotia Trust Company, all of which are separate CDIC members. So, in your sole name alone, if you had deposits issued by each of those issuers, $700,000 would be fully CDIC insured. Those other issuers are typically only held by a broker in nominee format only, though, but if they are held through a retail branch, usually in your "product code" or as part of your "transit/institution number," you can tell which issuer issues that deposit. :)

You can also hold deposits jointly with one person or with two people and the deposits with the one other person and those with two other people are also insured separately, by issuer. Lots of creative ways to work within the CDIC regime! That said, me personally, unless I'm maybe with small independent bank like EQ Bank, which interestingly has a "maximum balance" of $100,000, I don't even bat an eye at CDIC limits.

That said, $360k would probably exceed a "pulled" inbound EFT funds transfer limit (if any applies) but, because those limits are typically higher than "pushed" outbound EFT funds transfer limits, you probably could've done it in 2 or 3 transfers instead of 4 or 5. :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
5:40 pm
Doug
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RicksBank said

Righand - What sort of withdrawal did you try to make when you were forced to phone them to ask permission? Could you have done three $100k EFTs and one $60k? I did one $100 and one $36k without talking to anybody. Note, I'm referring to pulling from another bank such as EQ as opposed to pushing the funds out from Tangerine, if that makes a difference.

I agree that the shenanigans and money moving are annoying, but now that EQ has easy-to-setup-and-use EFTs (like my Hubert "hub") it only took a couple of minutes to move my money to EQ last week and back again today. I'll earn about $280 more on my $136k during this promo period. Not bad for a few minutes work. (It took much longer to report about it all here in the forum.)

Agree with you on "pulling" versus "pushing" absolutely but point of fact: it'll take a bit longer. Both EQ Bank and Hubert apply standard 7- to 10 calendar day holds on all deposits (i.e. "pulled" funds from within EQ Bank from another externally linked FI and ATM deposits). :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
5:56 pm
Doug
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christinad said

I wonder if they do the promos to lure in new customers, then stop once you've had savings with them for awhile. I know I never saved with them until there was a promo.

That's a lot of it, sure, though they always have a standard "promo" for three months for new customers.

Scotiabank would probably love for them to be able to get rid of, or substantially lower, their promos on existing customers bringing in new money but, practically, that'd be impossible to police given Tangerine's 2 million Savings account clients and 500,000-750,000 Chequing account clients by manually crediting the additional interest. They're likely well aware of this workaround but, if they got rid of the promo completely, they risk seeing those deposits leave. Scotiabank bought Tangerine not for its mortgage book (its mortgage book is 75% of what it was when the transaction closed in 2012) but because it needed Tangerine's deposits as a (relatively) cheap source of funding compared to going to the bond markets or doing a preferred share issue. When they bought Tangerine, they had compound annual growth rates that showed Net Income from Tangerine reaching $500 million-$1 billion a year. While Tangerine's revenue has grown, its profit has stayed flat or fallen due to increased marketing spend on customer acquisition, premises spending on new Pop-Up Locations, marketing spend on new product launches/enhancements and narrowing Net Interest Margin due, in part, to these "promo" offers. :)

In short: while Tangerine is a growth engine for Scotiabank, it's not the profit engine that they'd hoped for. Still, they've managed to retain its roughly $30 billion in deposits (only slightly smaller than HSBC Bank Canada with its 130+ branches and 80% less staff than HSBC) so I think they'll be OK with that. :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
5:58 pm
Doug
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Yas said

I wonder what's wrong with my account or Tang that they never offered me any special interest rate. My pay gets deposited into my Tang but I move it out to EQ the following day. My Tang balance is usually below $1K except the pay days (Every 2 weeks). Maybe I should call and complain.

I wouldn't call and complain just yet. Do you even keep a balance in your Savings account at Tangerine or do you just have a Chequing?

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
6:01 pm
Doug
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Yas said

fbeaulie said

It could become $1,675,000 in less than 3 years if it continues like that! sf-smile

Yes. Just leave it there and keep watching. Make sure to take screen shots and download the balance for the record. If they give it, it is yours. They can't just take it back!! However, ....

Odd. Probably a one-time glitch but, yes, they can. There's usually a clause in the "account agreement" that while the customer has 30 days to notify the bank of any errors, this rule doesn't apply typically for "improper credits to the account." And, if you default on what they say you owe, they can take you to court and win a judgment and also put it on your credit bureau.

One or two months, I wouldn't worry about it. If it goes on beyond that, I'd let them know.

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
6:03 pm
Doug
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fbeaulie said

Yas said

WOW

Are you sure no transactions at all? It should show the interests as interests. Do you see that? This is amazing. I wonder how if you had $500 instead of $0.05.

No deposit or withdrawal on my side.

Exactly that:

1-Jan-2017 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.51 Balance 1.61
1-Dec-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.25 Balance 1.10
1-Oct-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.46 Balance 0.85
1-Sep-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.21 Balance 0.39
1-Jul-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.13 Balance 0.18
1-Jun-2016 Promotional Bonus Interest Interest 0.05 Balance 0.05

sf-laugh

I notice these are all "promotional bonus interest" credits, not the regular "interest" credits. I suspect when balances are under $1.00, they use a ratio relative to the account balance to pay the promotional interest. If the account balance were to go to $100, I suspect, then, it'd be more accurate. It does use a different formula than posted rate interest. :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
6:14 pm
Doug
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hi Loonie,

First, thanks for the reply.

However, my read of "clause 17," which I've read several times now both in these Terms and the fall Offer's Terms. And, as I understand it, the reason why only the Primary Account Holder is considered "eligible" added reason for why some spouses don't get an offer, to prevent people from moving funds back and forth. That said, I'm surprised that you both received an Offer (I'd have expected just you since you are "primary"). I still think, though, funds in your Savings account (sole account) would be separate from funds in your spouse's sole account. In theory, since you both received Offers, I wonder what would happen if you moved those funds out of your Savings account and into your joint Chequing account and then your spouse moves those funds to her (assuming you're male, if I'm wrong, I totally calculated psychologically!) "sole" Savings account would be treated as "eligible" to her.

Cheers,
Doug

January 6, 2017
6:43 pm
RicksBank
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Doug said

RicksBank said

EQ limits outgoing EFTs to $30k per transaction, but I don't see any daily total limit. I just submitted 5 transfers to move it all back to Tangerine. It says "Please allow 2-3 business days for your funds to be transferred".

The EQ Bank limit of $30,000 on outgoing EFTs would be for funds transfers initiated, or "pushed," from within EQ Bank. You can instead submit one request "pulling" the funds to Tangerine from within Tangerine (this is what I typically do as, as a bonus, you get a day or two (or three if a weekend or holiday) of "double interest" on the same money at two FIs).

Tangerine only allows 3 linked accounts and I already have 2 that I want to keep. I didn't want to use up the last one on EQ since I can now pull from the EQ end. That said, I do see that the 2 days of double interest on my amount would have been about $15.

January 6, 2017
9:58 pm
Loonie
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Doug said

hi Loonie,

First, thanks for the reply.

However, my read of "clause 17," which I've read several times now both in these Terms and the fall Offer's Terms. And, as I understand it, the reason why only the Primary Account Holder is considered "eligible" added reason for why some spouses don't get an offer, to prevent people from moving funds back and forth. That said, I'm surprised that you both received an Offer (I'd have expected just you since you are "primary"). I still think, though, funds in your Savings account (sole account) would be separate from funds in your spouse's sole account. In theory, since you both received Offers, I wonder what would happen if you moved those funds out of your Savings account and into your joint Chequing account and then your spouse moves those funds to her (assuming you're male, if I'm wrong, I totally calculated psychologically!) "sole" Savings account would be treated as "eligible" to her.

Cheers,
Doug

I couldn't follow what you were saying, Doug.
However, we each have a joint acct with the other as 2ndary. The funds at issue, which were creating a problem for me, were in spouse's (primary) joint.
Don't have a joint chqg.

January 7, 2017
9:35 am
Rick
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Doug said
The EQ Bank limit of $30,000 on outgoing EFTs would be for funds transfers initiated, or "pushed," from within EQ Bank. You can instead submit one request "pulling" the funds to Tangerine from within Tangerine (this is what I typically do as, as a bonus, you get a day or two (or three if a weekend or holiday) of "double interest" on the same money at two FIs).
Doug

How do you "pull" funds from EQ into Tang? I thought you needed a blank cheque and/or transit/institution numbers for EQ to set it up in Tang?
Also, last transfer I did from Tang into Tang (Friday), they post dated it to next Monday, so no bonus double interest.
Anyway...got my 3.25% promo and started 3 transfers out of EQ.
What Tang knows about me from the last year's worth of promos:

How much I have in my liquid savings
How much and often I contribute to it
What other banks I deal with
They can't goad my wife (secondary account holder) into opening her own
account by offering her a promo rate but not the primary account holder
I will move funds into Tang for the right offer
I will move funds out after the promo ends
I will not keep funds in at .8%
I will not move funds back in for a .23% difference over 3 months

Maybe there is some logic as to why everyone gets different offers.

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