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Tangerine Global ETF Portfolios
November 9, 2020
1:30 pm
Save2Retire@55
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Just saw this when I logged in to Tangerine!

We don’t want to get ahead of ourselves by saying too much at this point, but we’ll have more details available for you shortly. Meanwhile, we’re super excited to be bringing Tangerine Global ETF Portfolios to life! And now that we know your interest is piqued, we’ll let you know when they’re ready for prime time.

By the way, in case you’re wondering what ETF stands for:

ETF stands for Exchange Traded Fund, a type of investment fund that is usually bought and sold on a stock exchange. Our Global ETF Portfolios will bundle a selection of them in a mutual fund for you.

Stay tuned…

November 10, 2020
1:59 pm
Doug
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Save2Retire@55 said
Just saw this when I logged in to Tangerine!

We don’t want to get ahead of ourselves by saying too much at this point, but we’ll have more details available for you shortly. Meanwhile, we’re super excited to be bringing Tangerine Global ETF Portfolios to life! And now that we know your interest is piqued, we’ll let you know when they’re ready for prime time.

By the way, in case you’re wondering what ETF stands for:

ETF stands for Exchange Traded Fund, a type of investment fund that is usually bought and sold on a stock exchange. Our Global ETF Portfolios will bundle a selection of them in a mutual fund for you.

Stay tuned…  

They will likely be mutual fund wrapped ETF portfolios, sold through Tangerine Investment Funds, Limited.

As long as the fund wrapper premium on top of the underlying ETF MER is minimal, I would actually prefer this structure, as I don't need intraday liquidity, and would value the commission-free aspect of it.

For comparable products, see BMO's mutual fund ETF portfolios and HSBC Wealth Compass ETF mutual fund portfolios.

Cheers,
Doug

November 10, 2020
2:04 pm
Doug
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Doug said

They will likely be mutual fund wrapped ETF portfolios, sold through Tangerine Investment Funds, Limited.

As long as the fund wrapper premium on top of the underlying ETF MER is minimal, I would actually prefer this structure, as I don't need intraday liquidity, and would value the commission-free aspect of it.

For comparable products, see BMO's mutual fund ETF portfolios and HSBC Wealth Compass ETF mutual fund portfolios.

Cheers,
Doug  

Indeed, that's what it is...https://www.sedar.com/DisplayProfile.do?lang=EN&issuerType=01&issuerNo=00050579

MERs won't be available until 12 months after the funds have been on sale to the public, in line with mutual fund distribution regulations. We do know they've boosted their transfer out fee to $125.00, which is very steep for a mutual fund dealer (typical fee is $50.00 versus $125-150.00 for a discount brokerage).

There will be three portfolios initially. I expect this will probably have a weighted average MER of approximately 0.50-0.75% (which will include the underlying ETFs' MER).

Cheers,
Doug

November 11, 2020
9:25 am
Vatox
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This just reinforces the ideology of Tang. They want to make higher profits, unlike its predecessor ING Direct, who completely focused on helping the client save money. Tang is now gone from my list of FIs to do business with.

November 11, 2020
10:03 am
christinad
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All companies want to make profits, ing direct was no exception.

November 11, 2020
10:20 am
Norman1
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The new mutual funds will charge a ½% per year management fee. That will be on top of the underlying fees of the ETF's, unless the ETF is also managed by Tangerine Investment Management or one of its affiliates/associates:

… Where a Fund invests in an ETF that is managed by us or one of our affiliates or associates, TIMI [Tangerine Investment Management Inc] will waive or absorb its management fee by an amount that is equal to any underlying ETF management fee that is incurred by the Fund. Such waivers or absorptions may be terminated at any time without notice.

There is also another 0.15% per year fee for administration.

November 11, 2020
11:11 am
Vatox
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christinad said
All companies want to make profits, ing direct was no exception.  

This is true, but what I’m talking about is the extent to which they seek out those profits. I believe ING would easily have a rate of 1.5% today and Tang is at 0.15%. That’s ten times as much!

November 11, 2020
11:35 am
Save2Retire@55
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I miss ING Direct and even my father used to have ING account from when he used to travel and reside in Europe. Pretty much I had old memories connected to ING.

However, knowing that Tangerine currently charges 1.10% annual fees (after adding MER of 1.07% + 0.03% trading fees) for their mutual funds which is pretty normal way of stealing money (Except TDs E-Series), the new fee table is slightly lower (0.5% + 0.15% + ~ 0.2%) at 0.85% still higher than what you pay with the Roboadvisors like Questrade (0.2% or 0.25% + ~0.2%) and Wealthsimple (0.2% or 0.4% + ~0.2%).

November 11, 2020
4:30 pm
Bill
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These investment vehicles are convenient for those who don't want to open a separate investing account at a brokerage, just want to invest via their Tangerine accounts, so higher fees are payment for that convenience. Maybe those folks are Tangerine's focus.

November 12, 2020
2:33 am
Loonie
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If they use "affiliates or associates", the fee is less.
What would those be?, I wonder. The phrase seems vague.
But, even so, the waiving of said fee "may be terminated at any time without notice" - otherwise known as adding a fee - so is next to meaningless.

Good ole Tangerine, still up to the same tricks. I remember when they promised "no fees", then it was "no unfair fees" and now it's just ever-increasing Fees.
They define "fair fees" as "disclosed and agreed to in advance, and the amount makes sense relative to the benefit received." That isn't going to happen if they terminate a condition favourable to the consumer without notice.
https://www.tangerine.ca/file_source/fberoot/pdf/en/en_fair_fees_schedule.pdf
It's precisely this sort of BS that alienates people, but Tang counts on us not noticing.

November 12, 2020
7:29 am
Norman1
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The affiliates and associates are likely other companies owned by its parent, the Bank of Nova Scotia.

For example, 1832 Asset Management LP which runs the Scotia Index Tracker ETF's.

There's also the question about the market indices used. It not the S&P and MCSI market indices. The funds and underlying ETF's track indices from Solactive.

November 12, 2020
9:27 am
Vatox
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Bill said
These investment vehicles are convenient for those who don't want to open a separate investing account at a brokerage, just want to invest via their Tangerine accounts, so higher fees are payment for that convenience. Maybe those folks are Tangerine's focus.  

The fee is not payment for convenience alone, because I use TD e-series indexes through my TD chequing account and the MERs for the various indexes is ultra low. So why is Tang’s higher? It’s because they want more profit.

I didn’t have to open a TD Waterhouse brokerage account to purchase TD e-series, so it’s super convenient.

November 12, 2020
10:18 am
christinad
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I thought i'd mention td's managed etf portfolios as well since e series doesn't have an all in one fund: https://www.td.com/ca/en/asset-management/funds/solutions/mutual-funds/fundCard/TD%20Managed%20Aggressive%20Growth%20ETF%20Portfolio%20-%20D/?fundId=6945
Personally if i had a tangerine bank account and i thought it would encourage me to save i may do it depending on asset allocation. If i had to do it all over again i think i'd invest in eseries from bank account for the automated withdrawals. The tangerine fund mer still isn't as bad as a lot of mutual funds.

November 12, 2020
12:07 pm
Bill
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I believe TD e-series now tracks the Solactive indexes too.

And, yes, Vatox, just like the folks on here trying to maximize their high interest returns Tangerine is trying to maximize its profits. Pretty normal behaviour on both accounts.

November 12, 2020
3:34 pm
canadian.100
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Bill said

And, yes, Vatox, just like the folks on here trying to maximize their high interest returns Tangerine is trying to maximize its profits. Pretty normal behaviour on both accounts.  

You are so funny!
I am amazed sometimes at various posters who think they should never have to pay any fees - everything should be free, that financial institutions should eat all service charges and that the FIs should pay way above market interest rates on their HISAs. Also, some of these posters are SO happy when they manage to time an electronic transfer between their HISAs that they get interest from both the transferring FI and from the Receiving FI for the same day - in effect "duplicate interest".

On my part, I want Tangerine to maximize its profits because I own Scotia shares.
sf-smile

November 12, 2020
6:41 pm
Save2Retire@55
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canadian.100 said

You are so funny!
I am amazed sometimes at various posters who think they should never have to pay any fees - everything should be free, that financial institutions should eat all service charges and that the FIs should pay way above market interest rates on their HISAs. Also, some of these posters are SO happy when they manage to time an electronic transfer between their HISAs that they get interest from both the transferring FI and from the Receiving FI for the same day - in effect "duplicate interest".

On my part, I want Tangerine to maximize its profits because I own Scotia shares.
sf-smile  

Sometimes it is all about expectations. We all loved the old Tangerine.

So yes, we had the expectations Tangerine keeps as nice as they think they are. A financial institute we can rely on. Look at EQ as an example. Even with the crappy market their rate is 1.5% and they have way less fund than Tangerine does. Tangerine doesn't have neither branches nor own ATMs. It is a DIGITAL bank regardless of who owns it and should give rates comparable to other Digital banks. Yet you see Tangerine's rate is %0.15 while others are all above %1. How is this an unfair request?

Greed needs to have a limit. Yes everyone wants to maximize their profit and that's exactly why we all need regulations and competition.

To compare with what you said about owning BNS Stock, I travel a lot (Used to before Covid) and recently bought Air Canada stock but I do NOT want Air Canada to increase their prices so my money goes up. I want them to get better and sell more tickets and have more customers (When things go back to normal). I even hope EU doesn't approve the Transat take over. We need more healthy competitions than bigger players owning the market.

Same goes for big Phone companies. Go figure why Rogers, Bell, and Telus rank the top most expensive phone companies in the whole world! Competitions is a key and Tangerine is LOSING the competition to other players by not being nice to us.

PS. I moved a lot of money to Tangerine when they recently offered the special 2.15%. Money stays there till end of Feb then back to EQ or whoever offers higher interest by then.

November 13, 2020
6:53 am
canadian.100
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Save2Retire@55 said

Tangerine doesn't have neither branches nor own ATMs. It is a DIGITAL bank regardless of who owns it and should give rates comparable to other Digital banks. Yet you see Tangerine's rate is %0.15 while others are all above %1. How is this an unfair request? 

Tangerine may not be responsive to your request, so you have the option to use other digital banks of which there are a lot. (i.e. there is enough competition) Obviously Tangerine must be satisfying a certain portion of the market and that is why they can (or have chosen) to operate as they do. For depositors, who do not like Tangerine (when rate only is the essential reason to use them), rather than lament, I say why not just go elsewhere.

November 13, 2020
8:49 am
Vatox
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canadian.100 said

rather than lament, I say why not just go elsewhere.  

That’s the best policy. But it feels right to let Tang know that they stink!

November 13, 2020
10:04 am
christinad
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People think they are sticking it to tangerine by taking the 2% interest and remove their money right away but tangerine knows people do it and still do the same promos so they must get something out of it. If people really wanted to stick it to tangerine, they'd leave altogether and not take the 2% handouts tang offers. I notice people don't and prefer to complain.

November 13, 2020
10:39 am
Vatox
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christinad said
People think they are sticking it to tangerine by taking the 2% interest and remove their money right away but tangerine knows people do it and still do the same promos so they must get something out of it. If people really wanted to stick it to tangerine, they'd leave altogether and not take the 2% handouts tang offers. I notice people don't and prefer to complain.  

I’ve pulled my money for good! Not going back unless their regular rate is competitive. I won’t support poor behaviour as I don’t need the gains from their promos.

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