Service going downhill at Tangerine | Tangerine Bank | Discussion forum

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Service going downhill at Tangerine
January 20, 2015
6:54 am
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9278
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've had accounts at ING since the late 1990s and was always very impressed with the quality of their telephone service.

A few weeks ago, someone in the Tangerine call centre gave me the wrong information, as I later discovered.sf-frown

Today, I phoned and an automated voice told me I would have a 22-minute wait!sf-surprised
I hung up.

There was one thing that they did very well, even if wasn't in the rate department.
But it seems that this is no longer the case. It was never like this when it was ING, at least not in my experience.

I notice that their website now features a video of the CEO apologizing for a "recent" problem with long wait times for customer service. The video has been there for ages. I suppose it's convenient to leave it up when you haven't solved the problem, and may have no intention of doing so.
This is the same video where he tells us that "there is nothing more important than making and keeping a promise." These promises include "the best customer experience" and a commitment to rectifying "absolutely inexcusable" wait times.

I would have given them an 8 out of 10 when customer service was good, discounting for non-competitive rates. Today, I'd give them a 2.

January 20, 2015
9:40 am
james1900
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 181
Member Since:
June 24, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just a speculation, they might kill Tang. Just like RBC's kill on Ally savings.

January 20, 2015
10:45 am
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4249
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

james1900 said

Just a speculation, they might kill Tang. Just like RBC's kill on Ally savings.

They won't kill Tangerine. BNS' purchase of ING DIRECT Canada and RY's purchase of the Ally Canada assets were for dramatically different reasons; BNS was seen as the "least capitalized" on the deposit side of things (if you can call it that; all Canadian banks are well-capitalized) and wanted ING DIRECT Canada almost exclusively for its deposit base and, to a lesser extent, its mutual fund business was complementary. They've made their big changes as far as ending product or business lines goes: they ended the relationship with deposit brokers, then with mortgage brokers to give Scotiabank less competition in the mortgage broker channel (where it remains the #1 originating lender) and put about $20 billion of ING DIRECT Canada's $25 billion mortgage portfolio into "run-off" (i.e., that means, for a variety of reason(s), they'll continue to renew those mortgages but not advance any new funds for those existing mortgages as, presumably, they don't meet BNS' lending matrix).

RY, on the other hand, bought Ally Canada's assets almost exclusively for the auto financing and dealer "floor plan" and leasing business. The deposit(s), if any, were just a "side show". Even with the commotion, they still managed to retain probably two thirds of their miniscule $1.5 billion in deposits (which isn't bad) and you have to hand it to them: it may have been a somewhat "disruptive" transition in things like, new account numbers and forcing clients to re-link their external accounts and pre-authorized debit agreements. However, they did it quick and migrated everyone to the RBC Royal Bank platform (which they likely had to do, since Ally retained the technology infrastructure). Contrast that to TD Canada Trust which took three years moving MBNA Canada to the TD Canada Trust technology platform and, even still, don't allow in-branch access to MBNA credit cards (though at least now they could, in theory, if they wanted to) and they've still retained the horrid MBNA (which stands for Maryland Bank, National Association, if anyone's curious) and CUETS brands as unincorporated divisions of TD Canada Trust.

I think what Tangerine didn't anticipate is BNS' relentless control of costs and how that doesn't square with an innovative/disruptive culture of Tangerine. They're trying to innovate, as best they can, focusing on "big picture" things like ChequeIn, voice authentication and fingerprint sensing in iOS but having to dramatically slow the pace of innovation. Would they be better off with a different shareholder than BNS? Maybe, but doubtful as BNS is, at least, letting them "chart their own path" and mostly staying clear of day-to-day decision-making. That said, I do wonder if Tangerine's "direct bank" business model will at some point clash with Scotia's full-service model as I wonder if, perhaps, Scotia banking customers switching to Tangerine is, perhaps, bigger than Scotia realized. It's just speculation but perhaps that's playing a role in the slower roll-out of new Tangerine features also? I know from my own perspective, I've moved my chequing/savings account(s) from Scotia to Tangerine, have got my parents to do the same (so they don't have to maintain minimum monthly balances) and even my sister is slowly migrating. I wonder, how many "hybrid" Scotia/Tangerine customers like me, having Tangerine banking and Scotia iTRADE customers are there? If so, what does that mean for a possible reduction in Scotia's branch network footprint (already the smallest or second-smallest of the "Big 5"), let alone any possible growth?

It's still early days, troubling signs have emerged. Tangerine was supposed to launch an unsecured Personal Line of Credit product by "end of Q3 2014," at the latest (that would be July 31st, 2014 for those tracking that sort of thing) and didn't. A credit card was pushed back to "mid-2015," but, even that, I suspect might be pushed out to 2016 or possibly even 2017 as they only completed their project management team hiring in late 2014.

I'm sticking with them, though, because they are still "best-in-class". :)

Cheers,
Doug

January 20, 2015
5:09 pm
JustMe
Member
Banned
Forum Posts: 160
Member Since:
August 28, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

All depends WHEN did you call them?! My wait time is usually 20-30 sec. But I call around 8:00 or after 20:00. I always got courteous and accurate answer. Mind you: NEWER believe what customer service rep tells you. It is YOUR duty to verify and double check. People working in cust. serv. do not make career of it. Find me banking telephone cust. serv. person who is doing that 15 years or more??? This is survival job, opportunity to get shoe in into company, student job. You cannot expect cust. serv. person to know ALL possible answers. They go through the training but same as car manufacturer they cannot predict all silly questions customers can ask. Same as car manufacturer - they cannot test car for EVERY possible road situation. That is why they rely on 'trend setters' or 'I have to be first on the block' to buy their car and do test drive for them for free or worse to pay to do test drive.
You cannot expect any bank to have 100s of operators even if they hire Indians or Albanians.
Do not be rotten spoiled. Travel the word and then you will appreciate Canada and 'lousy service' we get here.

January 21, 2015
6:01 pm
malquin
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 39
Member Since:
April 5, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I had to call them last week around 5PM. Took over 15 minutes to talk to someone. No biggie for me.

Long time customer of them, since 1998. I'm not happy about the change of ownership and the slowing of innovation that it brought.

1. The change of ATM network, while good for some, is not for most in Quebec. It's easy to find a Banque Nationale ATM. A Scotia one? Not so much. They exist but they are few and far between in some areas, completely absent in others.

2. ING used to lead in interest and mortgage rates. As most here know, not anymore.

3. I initiated a transfer out of a Tangerine RRSP in the first week of last December. Tangerine would only confirm to the company that initiated the transfer that they received the document but, somehow, the funds still stayed with Tangerine. After 6 weeks, I decided to call and was informed that yes, they received the transfer request in December but would not process it because it was not signed by me.

They did not inform the company that sent them the request and had no plan to inform me either. The request would simply be stuck in limbo for ever so I'm now stuck and will have to pay the transfer out fee.

I asked them to credit the fee and they will not, even when I explained politely I would take all my business elsewhere.

ING was a market disruptor. It's obvious that it's not anymore. I think we sadly need competition.

January 21, 2015
9:01 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9278
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think it's unreasonable to request a signed form for an RRSP transfer, as I think CRA might require this to change the registration to the new institution.
However, they definitely should have informed you of the issue. Either someone else was somehow accessing your account and requesting the transfer, or it was you making a legitimate request. In either case, they should definitely have informed you that there was a problem.

Perhaps your new bank/cu will refund the cost of the transfer. Many will. You could also complain through Tang/Scotia's ombudsman process, although I doubt you would get anywhere.

I think I understand better now why we have to wait so long for them on the phone. When I finally did get through, the call itself took about 20 minutes (after my 15 minute wait). It should only have taken about 5 minutes.
They wasted all kinds of time trying to upsell me, reading out scripts to which I had to respond before I could get what I called for. They tried to use it as a marketing "opportunity" - e.g. mutual funds etc in which I have never expressed any interest whatsoever, despite many mailings. They even tried to flog a promotion for which they had to admit I could not qualify.
They would have no trouble keeping up with the calls if they were more efficient about just doing what we ask of them when WE place the call.
It never used to be this way. It's a management problem.
Personally, I don't find it a very professional way of doing business, to waste people's time by hustling them at every opportunity. Feels more like meeting the proverbial vacuum cleaner salesman at the front door when you're trying to leave the house for an appointment (nothing against people who happen to sell vacuums).
I don't have time for them.

January 22, 2015
3:49 pm
malquin
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 39
Member Since:
April 5, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Loonie: I agree. Tangerine says the form is not signed. The firm that sent the request sent me a PDF of the form and it is signed by me. He says, she says... Yes, I'll be reimbursed when I finally transfer out.

I also agree about the upsell. It is getting annoying. I see it as spam. It's annoying to most but since they keep doing it, it must be because some clients of theirs accept their offers...

The whole thing is just a letdown. ING used to be a company I was proud to do business with. Not anymore.

January 22, 2015
4:19 pm
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6807
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Might be problems with that part of Tangerine that is handling transfers out.

I found this May 2014 article Tangerine Bank hits sour note with RRSP and TFSA transfers written by financial advisor Glenn Szlagowski with Assante Financial Management.

Article describes Tangerine using "privacy concerns" to deflect queries from receiving institutions about uncompleted transfers.

January 22, 2015
6:36 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9278
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Interesting article, Norman. I did not know about the CBA recommendation.

Just fyi, a family member of mine did transfer a TFSA from Tang to Peoples a few months ago on my suggestion, and it went through fairly quickly without a hitch.

However, it's clear that they have more than one management problem at Tang.

The fact that, for the first time, they are offering current savings account customers 2% to match competitors, if they ask for it, even if only until end March, suggests to me that they are at least worried about losing market share, and probably have already lost some.

January 23, 2015
10:29 am
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9278
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I thought Tangerine was bad, and it is, but I just called AirMiles and got this message: "Your expected wait time may exceed 2 hours." Truly, I was shocked. The battery on my phone probably wouldn't even last that long.sf-surprisedsf-surprisedsf-surprisedsf-surprised

January 23, 2015
6:15 pm
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6807
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Good to read that your family member's transfer from Tangerine was promptly handled, Loonie.

It would be sad if Tangerine now routinely resorted to the tactics described in Glenn Szlagowski's article to stymie requests to transfer out.

Hard to say if their selective matching of competitors is a sign of worry over market share. Maybe Tangerine can't have a general market-leading offer without having ScotiaBank take up their entire offer! If Tangerine was planning to offer everyone something like 2% to boost their deposits, their parent (ScotiaBank) might nix the plan by offering to deposit the money Tangerine was hoping for, for something like 1¾% minus whatever the CDIC premium would have been. sf-surprised

ScotiaBank would be happy because they would only get around ½% if they parked the funds instead in Government of Canada treasury bills.

June 11, 2015
2:55 pm
servicematters
Newbie
Members
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
June 11, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi,
Could not agree more. They did such a mess in my account following a check deposit that was not compensated yet. Instead of reversing all the transfers and rolling over to the deposit they went and transfered all the monies I had in my other account to offset the negative balance they themselves created !!!
No one even could explain to me what hap pened let alone recognize their error. I spent 30 minutes on the phone and was still not understanding what happened and i was emphasing the fact that ineeded to understand and he ended up hanging on me !!! Very bD service since they were bought by scotia. I m so nostalgic for the time Ing was handling every thing so professionnaly !!!
I m moving all my monies elsewhere

June 11, 2015
5:01 pm
Rick
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1110
Member Since:
February 17, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

malquin said
The whole thing is just a letdown. ING used to be a company I was proud to do business with. Not anymore.

Ditto. They have gone from being the primary keeper of my RSP's to last choice. When my final GIC matures next march, it will be transferred out so all I have left with them is the line of credit account...which I don't use. Bad CS, gimmicky promos and (most of all) the drop in rates has turned a once innovative company into just another puppet of one of the big 5. Sad

June 12, 2015
9:37 am
james1900
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 181
Member Since:
June 24, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just curious, after you guys left Tangerine, where do you put your money? For me, I still like its information rich online banking, its free Email-transfer (though the interac e-transfer is not free).

June 12, 2015
3:43 pm
kanaka
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1232
Member Since:
December 23, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I cannot directly answer your question. I have difficulty dealing with any bank that is a spinoff or engined by of one of the big 5.

If you are looking for solid rates without a lot of frills.
Hubert
Oaken
Accelerate

June 13, 2015
5:55 am
Rick
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1110
Member Since:
February 17, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

james1900 said

Just curious, after you guys left Tangerine, where do you put your money? For me, I still like its information rich online banking, its free Email-transfer (though the interac e-transfer is not free).

CDF for RSP's, chequing and HISA, and PT for TFSA

June 13, 2015
12:46 pm
Yatti420
Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 414
Member Since:
July 10, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I use Tangerine (formerly ING) for Chequing & cash segregation (savings).. Reg savings @ hubert and TFSA Cash @ PTC..

I've never had issues with ING or Tang.. Alot quicker to get an agent then @ TD no matte the time of day.

With the recent changes at Tang they definately don't want any registered money due to fees..

Edit: I do think we have a lot more competition then when ING started.. Just called Tang @ 2pm EST (Sunday) an got an agent immediately. 3 min total call for verification/balance check and Whoops protection question..

June 20, 2015
9:07 am
kanaka
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1232
Member Since:
December 23, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Lol...beware Tangerine may try to promote a poor offer while taking advantage of our relaxed attitude towards spending during the summer months.

http://www.moneysense.ca/spend.....ummer-fun/

June 20, 2015
1:28 pm
Loonie
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 9278
Member Since:
October 21, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I saw a banner ad yesterday for a Tang promo where you have to move an automatic paycheque deposit to them. It looked similar to a previous offer but I did not explore it.

I have to agree that summer is not likely a great time for promos. People who have spare cash take vacations then, so they are not as likely to get as good a response, making it less worth their while.

June 23, 2015
2:25 am
Joe
Member
Banned
Forum Posts: 207
Member Since:
June 3, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I work nights, so I call them in the off hours and get answered immediately....never, ever, have I had to wait. I consider them the best online bank I have ever used. I was just given a 3% interest rate effective immediately (I called them after reading on this site about the promotion) good until Dec 19th...for up to 500k...and you can move your money in and out as often as you want. IMO...a great bank.sf-smilesf-cool

Tangerine....Canada's best bank. LBC.............Canada's 2nd best bank.
Hubert.....worst bank in Canada.

Please write your comments in the forum.