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Ing direct Canada being sold
August 2, 2012
7:44 pm
Jamie
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Wow big news ing direct being sold. Those exploding commeriials make me laugh...only thing exploding mow is the ing direct franchise

August 2, 2012
7:50 pm
Jamie
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Any predictions on buyers....my gut tells me a credit union or maybe national bank. Don't see Rbc or td buying has the value is very small (2 billion)

August 2, 2012
7:58 pm
moneysaver
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Jamie said:

Any predictions on buyers....my gut tells me a credit union or maybe national bank. Don't see Rbc or td buying has the value is very small (2 billion)

I just finished reading the daily Financial Post Jamie and they think it's probably Scotiabank, National Bank or TD Canada Trust will buy ING. Here's the link I just read.

http://business.financialpost......a-analyst/

August 3, 2012
1:07 pm
Yatti420
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The question is do you buy ING and charge fees immediately? It will be one less choice for no fee chequing accounts Leaving only PC?

August 3, 2012
3:50 pm
88kanaka
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Yatti420 said:

The question is do you buy ING and charge fees immediately? It will be one less choice for no fee chequing accounts Leaving only PC?

I don't pay fees for Chequing or Savings at BMO or Coast Capital CU

August 8, 2012
3:21 am
Dji
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88kanaka said:

Yatti420 said:

The question is do you buy ING and charge fees immediately? It will be one less choice for no fee chequing accounts Leaving only PC?

I don't pay fees for Chequing or Savings at BMO or Coast Capital CU

You don't pay fees at BMO cause you maintain a min balance.....No min is required at ING! No uncovered balance either....try to get that one at any major bank. Its sad and unfortunate that canadian ING client are paying for a mess that ING did in Europe. But it is was a good alternative to any one of us who refuse to be ripoff by bank like BMO

August 8, 2012
7:52 am
Yatti420
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I should point out ING is just reviewing options at this point.. It would be a shame if a big cdn bank picked ING up though.. We all know what is coming if that happens..

August 8, 2012
8:01 am
Simon
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Dji said:

You don't pay fees at BMO cause you maintain a min balance…..No min is required at ING! No uncovered balance either….try to get that one at any major bank. Its sad and unfortunate that canadian ING client are paying for a mess that ING did in Europe. But it is was a good alternative to any one of us who refuse to be ripoff by bank like BMO

That BMO/Sobeys account is free with no minimum balance required.

August 8, 2012
2:23 pm
Appu
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Sale should be wrapped up by fall. They learned their lesson in the us NOT to drag it out. I expect CIBC to pay abut 2.5 billion for the bank

August 8, 2012
2:25 pm
Appu
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Yatti420 said:

I should point out ING is just reviewing options at this point.. It would be a shame if a big cdn bank picked ING up though.. We all know what is coming if that happens..

Reviewing option means it's being sold....they reviewed options with the management team last year

August 8, 2012
6:26 pm
Doug
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I don't think CIBC will pick up ING – they already have PC Financial and have a relatively good deposit base and good capital ratios (they and National Bank are the two Canadian banks that didn't have their credit ratings put on a 'negative outlook' for possible downgrade by the "Big Three" credit ratings agencies). As well, TD is still digesting its MBNA Canada and Chrysler Financial acquisitions, among other priorities. Plus, they just finished digesting a massive buy of most of Citi Cards Canada (excluding some "subprime" Citi regular MasterCards and the Home Depot portfolio) credit card portfolio. It's a lot to pay just to expand PC Financial, which is a joint venture with Loblaw. Remember – they only operate the day-to-day banking and wealth management aspect of PC Financial; they don't even administer or own the PC MasterCard, that is issued by PC Financial Bank and administered/serviced by MBNA Canada, now owned by TD Canada Trust, apparently.

TD Canada Trust probably won't buy ING, except to take out a competitor that ranked #1 in customer satisfaction among the midsize banks. Scotiabank and National Bank are indeed the top Canadian banks I'd put. I'd like to see Canadian Western Bank buy ING Direct Canada to expand ING's competition Canadian Direct Financial (which CWB owns), but at $2 billion, that's about what CWB is worth itself. (CWB also owns Bank West, which acquired Ubiquity Bank, a "virtual bank" to compete with Citizens Bank of Canada and owned by Prospera Credit Union, a number of years ago.) I don't know if they could finance it – or if the regulators would allow it.

Beyond that, I don't see any foreign buyers – ICICI Bank has its own troubles and ING Direct Canada doesn't fit the foreign buyers' strategies in Canada nor would it give them the scale they are seeking (in terms of market share and retail branch network). Ally Canada is one possibility, but their own application for Schedule II Chartered Bank status is being held up by OSFI and the Minister of Finance, likely over capital adequacy issues, for over two years now. Plus, are they even big enough to buy it? They have about $1.5 billion in deposits and mortgages in Canada whereas ING has $30 billion.

My money's on National Bank of Canada, followed by Scotiabank and then BMO.

Cheers,
Doug

August 8, 2012
6:31 pm
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
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Yatti420 said:

I should point out ING is just reviewing options at this point.. It would be a shame if a big cdn bank picked ING up though.. We all know what is coming if that happens..

It's pretty much a done deal, I'd say, Yatti, especially if they get the rumoured $1.5- billion - that's no "chump change" and would go a long way to repaying their debt to the Dutch government and shoring up their capital adequacy and liquidity levels. In short, I think it'd be a great deal they'd be dumb not to take. I should point out they sold ING Direct USA already, they sold ING Insurance in Canada and just finished selling the ING Real Estate portfolio in Canada so this would allow them to "regroup" as a more European and Asian focused company. :)

Cheers,
Doug

August 8, 2012
6:33 pm
Doug
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A credit union is also a possibility, but again, are they big enough (if a bidding war emerges)? Of them, I'd say – possibly – the "Big Three" of VanCity, Coast Capital Savings (both in B.C.) or Meridian Credit Union (Ontario) would be able to take it on but it's "iffy" even then. Desjardins (Quebec) could probably do the deal, but do they want it?

Cheers,
Doug

August 9, 2012
6:09 am
Yatti420
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I don't think structure of CUs will allow them to absorb an ING.. I thought ING had paid the majority of thier debts to the gov..

August 9, 2012
5:42 pm
Doug
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I thought they (ING) repaid most of their debts to the Dutch government too, but I guess not. ;(

Regarding credit unions buying ING, they could buy ING and operate it as a wholly-owned subsidiary - that's within the current legislative framework. There is precedent for this - Prospera Credit Union used to own Ubiquity Bank of Canada (a Schedule I Chartered Bank), which was later merged with Bank West, which was owned by Western Financial Group and now which itself was acquired by a Quebec credit union/caisse populaire Desjardins Group) and Vancouver City Savings Credit Union (VanCity) started Citizens Bank of Canada.

Additionally, later this year, the new law allowing credit unions to incorporate nationally goes into force so, in theory, they could even effectively merge with ING and not have to operate it as a wholly-owned subsidiary anymore.

The problem is, is any one credit union's capital adequacy ratios good enough and do they have enough "financial muscle" to pass the regulators' (OSFI's) regulatory mustre? That's the question. :)

Cheers,
Doug

August 9, 2012
8:55 pm
NorthernRaven
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I think the Dutch ING Groep took about €10 billion in aid - they repaid back half in 2009, another 20% in 2011, and anticipate covering the rest by next year.

August 10, 2012
7:31 am
Doug
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Thanks for the update, NorthernRaven! :)

Cheers,
Doug

August 15, 2012
2:09 pm
Silvio
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2nd round of bids are complete for ing direct Canada. Any word? Sounds like they will be sold soon

August 16, 2012
4:43 pm
doc
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i think a lot of these small banks will be merge or bought out with other larger financal intutions

August 17, 2012
5:58 pm
Phil
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Heard ING Direct Cdn will be sold the first week of September. Pull ma money out

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