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Danger alert on tangerine offers on new promotions
March 20, 2017
12:41 pm
Doug
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moneyman said
Spring your right I'm saying the exact opposite of Doug.

Doug had had really great luck in getting every offer. I used to do the back and forth with using PC and EQ.

Maybe you should call in a week ahead and if they don't satisfy you shift it out. I do know if you call to shift out they will ask you how much your getting and usually do better but not match.

Doug to answer your question I'm the sole account holder.

Spring do remember that they treat new funds at a more attractive rate than existing funds. So if your wanting the highest promo rate Doug is right you Have to shift out. Then the dating game begins.

Good luck  

Maybe, maybe so, doesn't mean you're right though. sf-cool

All I'm suggesting is that he/she try my strategy of not calling for a "retention offer," and worse case, settling for a still attractively high rate from your external bank. 🙂

It may well be too late if you've already called for a "retention offer" in the past, they may sort of "black ball" you against getting any "net new money" promos for awhile. However, with companies like Alterna Bank or even EQ Bank, you have options. Try shifting money out for a quarter, or two, and see if the offers start to come in again.sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

March 20, 2017
12:46 pm
Doug
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Loonie said
A new problem emerged for me during the last round. Spouse and I each have a joint savings account with the other as secondary. We were both dinged for all funds in either joint account. In other words, funds in either counted against both of us in terms of "net new deposits". This is double jeopardy in my opinion, as only one of us could have contributed any given dollar.
If you are in a similar situation, be sure to ask specifically about this before you give them your money. I was lucky in that I somehow discovered this in time to avoid a problem.  

This actually makes sense, if I'm reading you correctly, though what happened is contrary to what I read in the last offer's Terms, which basically only said that the "primary account holder" would receive offers and that the "secondary account holder" was welcome to transfer funds to them to qualify.

If they've changed it to prevent transferring funds from sole Savings accounts to joint Savings accounts, that's great - it'll prevent system manipulation and unfair benefit by joint account holders. It probably makes it too hard for them to track if funds came from the "secondary account holder"'s Savings account to their joint Savings account, which is eligible, so it does make sense.

Basically, bottom line: figure out which spouse gets the offers and, a few days before the end of the existing promo, to be safe, either transfer funds to a joint or sole Chequing account or to an external joint savings account. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

March 20, 2017
6:14 pm
SavingIsGood
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"Retention offer' is a sham. Everybody - read again - EVERYBODY will get 2% offer if you call or chat with them no matter how much $ you have on account. Well, if you have $100 and expect 3.5% you will get finger... no, you will not see it but trust me, you will get a smirk and finger on the other side of the line.

Move money out few days before current offer expires. Wait. Be patient. If computer selects you, you will get >3% offer. If not, park $ at our Manitoba friends. Wait little bit more until news regarding new offer start appearing on this forum. If you are not among 'chosen' few, just go for 1year cashable GIC. You might be 'lucky winner' in the next quarter...

March 21, 2017
6:57 pm
moneyman
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Savingsisgood has good advice. Never thought to park it in a cashable GIC.
Your right with the wait be patient if the computer selects you. I suspect what happned with Loonie is that the data analytics guys probably did some crunching and saw this as a opportunity to shut that option and keep the screws to us to be digging up new money for deposit it with them which is their ultimate goal.
With the fed expected to raise 3x this year here's hoping it trickles down to us.

March 22, 2017
2:34 am
Loonie
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Slybanking said
Thanks for info. My deal is maturing the 22 but for the first time I won't call and will try the other way. I will be transferring all my balance of my saving account to the checking and wait for a special offer. Hopefully I will get one and hopefully better than 2%.  

Please let us know how you make out with this. Good luck!sf-smile

March 22, 2017
2:36 am
Loonie
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moneyman said

With the fed expected to raise 3x this year here's hoping it trickles down to us.  

I'd be really surprised if this actually happens - pleasantly, of course - unless it's one basis point at a time!

March 22, 2017
2:41 am
Loonie
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2of3aintbad said
That is really nasty. When we opened accounts with Tangerine, we had only one savings account and we made it joint. Then when we separately got the credit card, each of us opened a non-joint savings account (because of getting a 3rd category if you deposit the cash back there). So do you think that if we have $0 in the joint account, $1000 in one account and $1 in the other non-joint account, the $1000 will count against the $1 account?  

I think you should be OK with that arrangement. It was having money in the joint accounts that got us burned. They acted as if we each owned all of it, effectively counting all of it twice. All I can say for now is that they won't have that opportunity again. We've learned the lesson. The money won't be there.

March 22, 2017
10:43 am
Doug
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moneyman said
Savingsisgood has good advice. Never thought to park it in a cashable GIC.
Your right with the wait be patient if the computer selects you. I suspect what happned with Loonie is that the data analytics guys probably did some crunching and saw this as a opportunity to shut that option and keep the screws to us to be digging up new money for deposit it with them which is their ultimate goal.
With the fed expected to raise 3x this year here's hoping it trickles down to us.  

I find that funny...I argued for the exact same thing and you ridiculed, or at least belitted, my advice. I agree with SavingIsGood completely. I wouldn't say, however, "retention offers" are a "sham" and they may not all be the same rate but, at a minimum, they'll likely offer a "retention offer" to anyone that asks and that's why I simply said, move your money out of Tangerine (or at least to Chequing) a few days prior to the expiry date of your "net new money promo offer" and wait for a new offer. If you don't get one and you're not a "secondary" holder on a joint account, keep the funds elsewhere at 1.50-2% wherever else you bank and give it another quarter or two. Eventually, you should "reset" in their books and get a new offer. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

March 22, 2017
10:52 am
Doug
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moneyman said
Savingsisgood has good advice. Never thought to park it in a cashable GIC.
Your right with the wait be patient if the computer selects you. I suspect what happned with Loonie is that the data analytics guys probably did some crunching and saw this as a opportunity to shut that option and keep the screws to us to be digging up new money for deposit it with them which is their ultimate goal.
With the fed expected to raise 3x this year here's hoping it trickles down to us.  

I disagree with your "end thesis" there, however. The U.S. Federal Reserve will likely increase overnight lending rate 3 times this year, up from my prediction of 1 time prior to the U.S. federal election result last year but there's another factor at bay: I am still calling for at least one (1) Bank of Canada rate cut, especially if/once a U.S. border adjustment tax comes into play, we see fast-tracked construction of a U.S.-Mexico border wall (which, despite promises to the contrary, will have to be paid for by the U.S. - at least initially, although there's some logic to having "Mexico pay for it" through increased tariffs on Mexican products - whether those tariffs will flow through to the U.S. or whether the U.S. will just see less imports from Mexico remains to be seen) as well a myriad of tax cuts and other stimulative policies. I believe the (Canadian) market is severely underestimating the possibility of a BoC rate cut, perhaps as much as two. 🙂

Moreover, after years of "spread compression," I suspect when do finally see "rate rises" in Canada (the market pegs 2018, I say 2019, at the earliest), with increased competitive pressures, demographic challenges, oversupply of deposits relative to demand for loans and the need to continuously increase their dividends, I suspect what you'll see is the Canadian banks and credit unions "stand pat" on raising deposit rates, skipping a few rate increases from the BoC when it invariably comes to build some "cushion" into their "spread".

I'd suggest increasing one's "risk appetite" but, as mostly everyone has already done that, riskier assets are equally expensive. In short, there's just no attractive assets period - and that really sucks. 🙁

Cheers,
Doug

March 22, 2017
12:51 pm
Bill
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Doug, with lowest interest rates in history for some years now, USA municipal, state and federal government debt is to the moon and climbing every day. I'm interested to know, you seem to have thought about these things - how do you see them being able to raise interest rates plus being able to come up with the dough to pay much more in interest on these debts without having to default at some point? Seems to me all the previous predictions for interest rate hikes have not materialized for that reason, but I'm certainly no expert.

March 22, 2017
3:43 pm
Doug
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Bill said
Doug, with lowest interest rates in history for some years now, USA municipal, state and federal government debt is to the moon and climbing every day. I'm interested to know, you seem to have thought about these things - how do you see them being able to raise interest rates plus being able to come up with the dough to pay much more in interest on these debts without having to default at some point? Seems to me all the previous predictions for interest rate hikes have not materialized for that reason, but I'm certainly no expert.  

The U.S. Federal Reserve should be able to raise interest rates given that their demographics are more favourable than Canada, Japan or Europe coupled with the low unemployment rate (albeit the participation rate is pretty low, although it is trending upward) if infrastructure spending, deregulation and favourable tax measures materialize as all of those would be materially stimulative to the U.S. economy.

So, for perhaps the first time ever, I foresee significant divergence between Canada and the U.S. and that's why I'm calling for rate increases, albeit slightly more modest than the market is expecting, in the U.S. and for rate decrease(s) in Canada. 🙂

As for added interest on their debt, the U.S. has shown that deficits aren't a problem and they've always got the US Federal Reserve to buy their debt - or lend interest-free - if need be. Sure, that would be stimulative as well but there's a lot of "financial shell games" left to be played. Unfortunately, to your point, at some point the whole global fiat currency regime may come crumbling down and that will be depressing beyond all historical global proportions such that even deposit insurance won't necessarily help in a hyper-inflationary world. Thankfully, and unfortunately at the same time, we don't know when that'll be. The "gold bugs" who will have seen (likely) decades of erosion of their capital will likely be the only beneficiaries in that scenario. 😉

Hope that clarifies,
Doug

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