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Warning: Peoples Trust prolonged hold policy
January 8, 2015
9:24 am
Cecil
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Beware. Peoples Trust places a hold on electronically transferred funds for NINE business days, even when the funds come from a major Canadian bank. The funds leave my TD account the day after I place the transfer request, they appear in my Peoples account a day later, but I must wait for almost two full weeks before I can touch them. They freely admit that they have the money, and that they are able to use it, but I am not.

Do not put money in a Peoples account if you might need it within a two week time frame.

January 8, 2015
9:31 am
kanaka
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I don't deal with PT but have done ETFS at iTRADE and Oaken and they both let you invest immediately even if there is a hold. I imagine most folks do the same with PT to invest. Does PT not allow to invest until the hold is over.....if no.....is that a big issue?

January 8, 2015
9:53 am
Loonie
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The policy on Holds is clearly laid out here: http://www.peoplestrust.com/le.....-accounts/
Interests accrues from date of receipt of funds at PT.

I think it could only be an issue for a regular savings account, as there would normally be no reason to need quick access to new deposits in other accounts. They don't offer chequing or bill payments. So, logically, if you deposit the funds Monday and want them back on Thursday, this might raise eyebrows. Further, the only way you can access the money is by transferring it back to your external bank, which is going to take several more days.

Peoples Trust is not the right bank for anyone who wants to use the account for everyday banking. It's for savers. I think they would agree with that.

January 8, 2015
11:37 am
Greg Franklin
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Peoples Trust Company is just full of surprises for 2015. It seems that Peoples Trust has a large deposit base now and has more leverage than it had in 2009 when TFSA's were just introduced with them not having $185 million+ like now in 2015.

I would not be surprised by some new restriction, rate cut or maybe fee introduced in coming months or by year end.

Maybe a 2.25% TFSA savings account and a modest $25+H.S.T. TFSA transfer fee or TFSA withdraw fee? Who knows?sf-smile

More competition is needed for 2015 and the sooner the better.sf-smile

January 8, 2015
12:39 pm
NorthernRaven
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Loonie said

The policy on Holds is clearly laid out here: http://www.peoplestrust.com/le.....-accounts/
Interests accrues from date of receipt of funds at PT.

I think it could only be an issue for a regular savings account, as there would normally be no reason to need quick access to new deposits in other accounts. They don't offer chequing or bill payments. So, logically, if you deposit the funds Monday and want them back on Thursday, this might raise eyebrows. Further, the only way you can access the money is by transferring it back to your external bank, which is going to take several more days.

Peoples Trust is not the right bank for anyone who wants to use the account for everyday banking. It's for savers. I think they would agree with that.

Actually, the linked Hold policy page says 7 business days starting the day after an electronic transfer is received. I'm not sure where 9 came from?

A question might be whether it is on hold for internal PT transfers. If you move a chunk into the HISA, and then want to buy PT GIC, is the system smart enough to allow that?

I think most banks have hold periods on HISAs - Hubert for instance is 4 days for e-deposits. PT's 7-day seems a bit longer than most, that's all. Some like Tangerine say "up to five (5) business days", so you'd have to check on any specific instance. PCF seems to have an "up to 5 day hold" on bank-machine deposits, but not for direct deposits (like paycheques); it isn't clear if an e-transfer from another bank would qualify as a no-hold direct deposit.

January 8, 2015
12:53 pm
Loonie
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It says 7 days, but then there is wiggle room for various situations listed below that. Some of these might apply here. Also the 7 days is from RECEIPT, so you would probably need to add 2 days or so for the money to arrive. OP's time lines are not crystal clear.

January 8, 2015
4:55 pm
Greg Franklin
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I know for many EFT's, electronic funds transfers, they include the hold period when they receive that money in your account.

This can be anywhere from 7 to 11 days when you add the weekend and sometimes a holiday or two that does not count as business days.

If they keep extending these hold periods by adding more days, pretty soon it will be 12, 14 days etc. In 5, 10 years, this will look more closer to a 30 day term deposit than a transfer of money between accounts.sf-frown

January 8, 2015
5:23 pm
Norman1
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Cecil said

Beware. Peoples Trust places a hold on electronically transferred funds for NINE business days, even when the funds come from a major Canadian bank. The funds leave my TD account the day after I place the transfer request, they appear in my Peoples account a day later, but I must wait for almost two full weeks before I can touch them. They freely admit that they have the money, and that they are able to use it, but I am not.

Do not put money in a Peoples account if you might need it within a two week time frame.

Those kinds of holds are usual when one is transferring funds by pulling money from another institution.

It doesn't matter if the receiving institution has the money or not. Pulling funds electronically or by cheque is not final after the funds arrive. The holder of the account the money is pulled from can dispute the debit and have the transfer reversed as late as 60 days later.

One needs to push money from the another institution if one wishes the funds to be freely available on arrival at the receiving institution. That's why direct deposits (like payroll deposits, wired funds, and income tax refunds) have no hold on them.

January 9, 2015
8:18 am
Bryan Stro
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I've come to expect these long holds, ie. 5 to 9 days, when I transfer money...

However, there are two ways that you can get burned:
1) If you place your money in one of those 3 month high interest deposit offerings, PC Financial for example, the exit transfer delay (yielding no interest during that time) will wipe out any of the benefits.
2) There certain institutions, like Canadian Direct Financial, that keep juggling their interest rates... What they do is post a high rate....for a few days. This attracts depositors. Then whilst, they are all waiting the 8 days for their money to be transfered, CDF lowers their rates significantly. This is happening right now...sf-yell

January 9, 2015
12:19 pm
Greg Franklin
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Bryan Stro, we made 5 different non-registered GIC's in 2014 during the period when Oaken Financial's, 5 year was 3.05% which included their 0.25% bonus interest promotion.

However, we made 3 different GIC's during the year when their GIC rates could change day to day but since we always make all our GIC's with them by depositing a joint check from another institution and mailing it in to their Toronto office, their policy is a 5 business day rate guarantee from the GIC contract date.

We never had a problem with getting a lower GIC rate as our higher GIC rate on our filled out forms, GIC contract was always honored.

Bryan Stro, being careful and getting experience, understanding from forums like this will help others for sure.sf-smile

January 9, 2015
11:16 pm
phrank
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Greg Franklin said

More competition is needed for 2015 and the sooner the better.sf-smile

I agree with you, but have lost hope in Canada when it comes to competition. I fondly remember my Citizens Bank ATM for when travelling.... ING High Interest Savings and true no fee banking.... Ally..... Peoples Trust.... they're all slowly falling by the wayside in favor of greed in order to ever increase profits and continue to squeeze the blood out of the stone.

Except for my PC Financial account I've reverted back nearly completely to my original CU. Without them, I wouldn't even be able to beat inflation with my conservative portfolio.

Do you have any idea's of where the competition may come from? Maybe it's time to go back to ICICI, but I'm also enjoying a much more simplified portfolio. It's not optomized, but it's maximized safety. sf-laugh

With all these false competitors (much like Best Buy and Future shop in electronics or Loblaws, Superstore, No Frills etc) I'm not seeing much competition anywhere and wondering when PC Financial is going to start charging fees.sf-cry

January 10, 2015
10:32 am
JustMe
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What is the point to deposit money and then taking it out within a week or two. Unless you are moving millions interest for a 1-2 weeks is insignificant. Now, do not tell me you get high when you earn $1-2 for a week or two???
If somebody does not like Canadian interest rates, please deposit your life savings into some of European banks.

January 10, 2015
10:33 am
Greg Franklin
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Voodoo22, we understand your dilemma, we had to buy longer term bonds, zero coupon bonds and 5 to 7 year GIC's over the last 4 years or so to have around a 4.33%+ overall annual rate.

We could of done better but it was not bad either considering today's lower rates. If you are trying to stay shorter term relatively speaking meaning 5 years and get at least 3.00% with RRSP's, TFSA's, ICICI Bank of Canada and State Bank of India Canada are CDIC insured and have this option.

This is if you are trying to balance safety, term with getting a 3.00% minimum rate with tax deferral, tax sheltering, tax free compounding interest.

Just to give you an idea, an example of a person with already $10,000 in RRSP's, annual contributions of $6,300 a year, 3.00% RRSP GIC's and reinvesting the $1,800 annual RRSP income tax refunds into TFSA's every year over 37 years from 29 to 66 years old would have $459,257 in RRSP's, $152,539 in TFSA's.

There are credit unions that are paying non-registered GIC's 3.09%, 3.10% for 5 years Luminus Financial, QuintEssential Credit Union but the rest of financial institutions are at best 2.80% to 2.90% for 5 to 6 year money.

It is easier to find more shorter term GIC's that pay 2.25% to 2.80%, 1 year, 18 months, 30 months, 40 months with Manitoba credit unions, QuintEssential Credit Union, Duca Credit Union etc. than 5 year non-registered GIC's.

We are doing okay in the sense that we have alot of most of our money in RRSP's and TFSA's and we are in a modest to lower overall income tax rate. Tax sheltering and tax free income helps spread income taxes over years.

If you read some of my prior posts, we are keeping about 60% of all our income after income taxes and living expenses, other costs that come up. We don't have large expenses and costing of living, no debts, only one car now.

This works out to about $3,000 a month that we have left over to maximize our annual $11,000 TFSA contributions and other non-registered investments.

Take care and try make the best of seeking out the current best rates, terms in this tougher, low interest rate environment, Voodoo22.sf-cool

January 10, 2015
2:07 pm
phrank
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Greg Franklin said
Take care and try make the best of seeking out the current best rates, terms in this tougher, low interest rate environment, Voodoo22.sf-cool

Thank you for taking the time for that response Greg,

Our strategy and financial situation sounds like it will be nearly identical to you as it evolves, so your details reinforce and also give me more idea's about what I am doing.

Take care as well and have a great weekend! sf-laugh

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