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Entity Doesn’t Exist
April 11, 2021
7:31 pm
Vatox
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Loonie said
I think I must have missed a step some time ago as I wasn't interested in Neo earlier (and still not planning on getting an account with them).
Do we have verification that Concentra is behind this account and that it is thus CDIC protected? I could find nothing to this effect on the Concentra site, so am wondering.
I'd appreciate it if someone could point me to where Concentra verifies this.  

Lol, Loonie, lmao.

Scroll down about half way:

https://www.concentra.ca/pages/content.aspx?gp=About%20Us&sub=Five%20Reasons%20to%20Partner%20With%20Concentra

April 11, 2021
8:18 pm
smayer97
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I will say this... that until this discussion, from the information on this site and in particular the now Brand page, it was never obvious to me that some of these brands were not FIs, e.g. always thought Oaken, Motive, and now Neo.

SO, if I were to summarize all of this, I think there seems to be consensus that whatever the format, there definitely needs to be some form of identifying the distinction between the "brand" or "trade" name, or whatever other similar label VERSUS the insured FI between the product.

April 11, 2021
8:23 pm
Loonie
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Thanks.

in the meanwhile, I was scrolling through previous posts on highinterestsavings.ca and found an earlier post by LK with this link: https://www.concentra.ca/pages/article.aspx?gp=About%20Us&sub=News%20Item&itemnum=173

The interesting thing, to me, is that LK's post was on March 22, 2021, and appears to be the first verification. The first post about Neo, from Peter, was on Oct 22, 2020. In the intervening five months, all manner of posts were made about people trying to get in on the Neo Savings account, apparently fully willing to trust what Neo claimed for itself.

As has been mentioned, we are likely to see more similar start-ups. I think it is imperative that these be checked out before we jump on them, and especially before they get included on any chart or get their own sub-forum. This forum is a good place to vet such newcomers.

I have one other concern/question. How long is the contract with Concentra valid for? I imagine that any exit would be properly managed by Concentra, but I think depositors have a right to know. Concentra has surrendered a huge amount of control by allowing Neo, as an independent corporation, to name this account on their behalf. Personally, i think it was a bad decision. It has already created a huge amount of confusion.

April 12, 2021
11:21 am
LK
British Columbia, Canada
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Loonie said

I have one other concern/question. How long is the contract with Concentra valid for? I imagine that any exit would be properly managed by Concentra, but I think depositors have a right to know. Concentra has surrendered a huge amount of control by allowing Neo, as an independent corporation, to name this account on their behalf. Personally, i think it was a bad decision. It has already created a huge amount of confusion.  

Hi Loonie,

It's an interesting question, and I think the answer is found in the the contract between the three parties: the customer, the Bank (Concentra) and the tech provider (Neo Financial Technologies). The Savings Account Agreement is among those three parties: https://www.neofinancial.com/savings-agreement

Note that in the Agreement, any references to "we, us and our" is the Bank. If you scroll to the very bottom of the Agreement, you will see an assignment clause that states: "This Agreement is binding on us and our successors and assigns. We may assign your Account, services, and this Agreement to any person without your consent. This Agreement is also binding on you, your successors, permitted assigns and attorneys, and on your heirs and personal representatives - including your executors and administrators. You must obtain our written consent to assign this Agreement and any Account or service to another person."

So, Concentra can assign the agreement to a third party, without the customer's consent. Practically, this could play out in a few ways. Possibly if the arrangement between Neo and Concentra ends, Concentra could assign the agreement to another fintech or tech service provider. Possibly if Concentra establishes a subsidiary (that is also a FI), Concentra could assign the agreement to that subsidiary, and the agreement would then be among the customer, the FI subsidiary and Neo Financial Technologies. Assignment clauses are common, and probably all accounts with other FIs have something similar. The difference here is that it is an agreement between three parties, not the usual two parties (customer and FI).

As an aside, if one does a key-word search in the agreement for "notice", one will see all sorts of instances where things can be changed simply by giving notice to the customer (and in some cases, no notice is required).

Also, towards the end of the agreement (section G 15), it says "You will not make any public communication using our name or any of our trademarks before getting our written consent. We may choose not to provide our consent for any reason." So, when a customer enters into the agreement (by opening an account), the customer is agreeing to the agreement and is a party to the agreement. As of that time (opening an account) and going forward, the customer is agreeing that he/she "will not make any public communication using our name [Concentra] ... before getting Concentra's written consent". One wonders if that includes, for example, discussions on this site that mention Concentra by name? If section G 15 is interpreted that broadly, that would be quite an egregious limitation on customers who open an account.

Suffice it to say that it will be a cold day in hell before I ever apply for the Concentra "Neo Savings Account".

April 12, 2021
11:53 am
LK
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Doubling back on the CDIC issue, separate from statements re such on Concentra's website, the "Savings Disclosure Statement" (which forms part of the Savings Agreement among the customer, Concentra and Neo Financial Technologies) states the following.

CDIC Insurance:
Neo Savings accounts are eligible for CDIC deposit protection. The Neo Savings account is provided by Concentra Bank, a CDIC member institution. All eligible deposits made with the Bank are aggregately eligible for CDIC protection up to $100,000, per category, per depositor. For more information about CDIC deposit insurance, please consult CDIC’s website cdic.ca.

Neo Savings Disclosure Statement, Rate & Fee Schedule
https://www.neofinancial.com/savings-disclosure

April 12, 2021
3:40 pm
LK
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April 12, 2021
3:52 pm
Loonie
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LK said

...Also, towards the end of the agreement (section G 15), it says "You will not make any public communication using our name or any of our trademarks before getting our written consent. We may choose not to provide our consent for any reason." So, when a customer enters into the agreement (by opening an account), the customer is agreeing to the agreement and is a party to the agreement. As of that time (opening an account) and going forward, the customer is agreeing that he/she "will not make any public communication using our name [Concentra] ... before getting Concentra's written consent". One wonders if that includes, for example, discussions on this site that mention Concentra by name? If section G 15 is interpreted that broadly, that would be quite an egregious limitation on customers who open an account.

Suffice it to say that it will be a cold day in hell before I ever apply for the Concentra "Neo Savings Account".  

These restrictions leave me almost speechless. Who knows, really, how they intend to apply them, but they've given themselves a lot of leeway. I wonder what their "penalty" is? I doubt this is enforceable in law (except that they could close your account and thus dismiss you as a customer), but I am not a lawyer and one shouldn't have to consult one just to open aa bank account.

Given that comments on this forum are anonymous and that I don't see any likely enforcement through the courts, I doubt they can do much about posts here. If anyone is concerned, they could probably frame their comments as referring to a "friend"'s experiences rather than their own, provided they have never identified themselves here as customers.
Perhaps Peter could help people delete any such previous references..

I sure hope this is not the way of the future.
Shame on Concentra!

April 12, 2021
4:01 pm
LK
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Loonie said

These restrictions leave me almost speechless. Who knows, really, how they intend to apply them, but they've given themselves a lot of leeway. I wonder what their "penalty" is? I doubt this is enforceable in law (except that they could close your account and thus dismiss you as a customer), but I am not a lawyer and one shouldn't have to consult one just to open aa bank account.

Given that comments on this forum are anonymous and that I don't see any likely enforcement through the courts, I doubt they can do much about posts here. If anyone is concerned, they could probably frame their comments as referring to a "friend"'s experiences rather than their own.

I sure hope this is not the way of the future.
Shame on Concentra!  

The penalty (under the Savings Agreement) is that Concentra can terminate your "Neo Savings Account". See section B 9 of the Agreement: if you are in breach of the Agreement (as customer), including presumably in relation to mentioning Concentra's name in a public communication (if they can prove it is you, as customer), they can terminate the account. Also see section G 7 - you have to pay Concentra and NFT for any losses.

[B 9] We may restrict your access to or terminate your Account

We may in our sole discretion restrict your ability to transfer funds in your Account, freeze or close your Account, or suspend any services, with or without notice to, including in (but not limited to) the following circumstances:

Required by law or a regulatory authority;

We believe that you (or any of you, for a joint Account) are a victim of identity theft, or that any Account activity is suspicious, or possibly illegal, fraudulent or unauthorized;

Your Account or the Services were used for any fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest, or malicious purpose, or for any other activity unsatisfactory to us;

You have undermined the security, integrity, effectiveness, goodwill, or connectivity of any of the Services or Neo’s technology systems, including any activity that could cause harm to us, any other user, or any other person;

Your Account is operated in a manner that is unsatisfactory to us, including by a person whom we suspect may be engaged in financial abuse;

You (or any of you, for a joint Account) breach the terms of this Agreement or any agreement or policy applicable to your Account, or any other agreement with us;

We are notified that a claim has been made or may be made against funds in your Account;

There is any dispute or doubt as to who has the authority to operate your Account or use the Services;

You (or any of you, for a joint Account) have declared bankruptcy or become the subject of bankruptcy proceedings or a receiver is appointed over your assets;

You (or any of you, for a joint Account) have been declared, or we believe you might be, mentally incompetent or incapable of managing your own affairs, unless you have appointed an attorney or representative whose authority survives your mental incompetency or incapacity, or a legal guardian to manage your affairs;

You fail to act with respect and civility in dealing with us or our personnel, or we consider that your conduct toward us and our personnel is otherwise inappropriate;

Any of the above occurs in relation to a Linked Account; or

We have any other reason to restrict your ability to withdraw or transfer funds in your Account, or to freeze your Account, or to suspend any services.

[G 7 ] You will pay any Losses we incur

You will pay us and Neo for any Losses that may be incurred by us or Neo, including any claim brought by any person, that result directly or indirectly from this Agreement, the operation of your Account, the provision of any services to you, our acting or failing to act on your instructions, or any circumstances where we have disclaimed liability or responsibility under this Agreement or you have accepted a risk under this Agreement, except to the extent that the losses result directly from our gross negligence, fraud or willful misconduct.

April 13, 2021
4:22 am
Loonie
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Some of this stuff may be relatively standard, but most of us don't read all the fine print. I think they've gone well above and beyond, however. It boils down to, they have all the power and you have just about none.

Call me old-fashioned, but when I deal with a bank, I want to deal with a bank, not a recently re-imagined delivery outfit ripping off small businesses that are having trouble keeping going right now.
What'll it be next week? A casino?
I am glad that I never used their delivery system.

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