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Motus has launched
April 20, 2019
7:48 am
savemoresaveoften
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Top It Up said
According to the GIC Chart - https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/gic-rates/

that 3.XX% rate is available NOW for a range 24 - 60 months - why wait?  

waiting for non GIC rate, dont want lock in...

April 20, 2019
10:53 am
Briguy
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Loonie said
For a lot of us, the unlimited interac would not be significant. Why use interac when you can use a credit card, delay payment and get a rebate? - assuming you pay it off every month.
I've never used it; spouse uses it rarely, usually by mistake when intending to use CC! There are very few places where we shop that will take interac but won't take CC. I can only think of one actually.  

Totally agree with your logic, Loonie !!
But, I can think of a few examples where you have to use a debit card- taking money out of ATM (unless you want to pay cash advance fee), post office, or for a young person or person with very bad credit who can't get a credit card. A person with no self control might want to get a prepaid credit card.
Laundromats,nail salons and vending machines are places that may not take any cards including debit cards so cash is still important in those situations. If you travel, it'd be risky to just have a credit card, you would need to take out cash from ATM at destination ( eg. with Stack prepaid card or with a debit card ), or using a debit card at a bank or money exchange place to buy foreign currency before departure.

I agree with you that I'd rather use a credit card over a debit card to get the benefits of cash back, delayed payment, ability to dispute the transaction, extended warranty, ability to get a second card for your spouse, and easier to deal with a compromised card.

April 23, 2019
5:32 pm
Briguy
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Norman1 said

Loonie said

… They will have to do something to get people to bother opening an account with them, and this is not it as it doesn't even compete with EQ or Alterna, both of whom advertise their HISAs a lot.…

There is something. But, only for those who use Interac debit a lot.

The 2¼% rate on their high interest savings account is not great. But, motusbank allows unlimited Interac Direct Payments against the account:

  • Unlimited debit purchases, bill payments and withdrawals1

1Transactions include; self-serve transactions such as; bill payments and transfers between accounts via: Online, Mobile or Telephone Banking and ABMs, Interac® Direct Payment purchases, pre-authorized debit, and ABM withdrawals; personal service transactions such as; all in-branch withdrawals, transfers, bill payments and Member Service for transfers and bill payments and cheque transactions.

So, one can earn 2¼% on one's float for debit card and pre-authorized debits instead of something like ½% on a chequing account for the same.  

You need to open up a chequing account for Bill payments and Pre-Authorized Debits . HISA allows only unlimited ATM deposit and use of ATM card at a retailer.
Luckily you can set up a SWEEP feature so that you can keep a set amount in your chequing, and the bank will transfer automatically once a day from your HISA to your chequing to replenish it to that amount.

Reference:
Their website legal subscript now shows for HISA:
1 Transactions include; transfers between accounts, Interac® Direct Payment purchases, ABM withdrawals and cheques performed by you via online or mobile banking or, our Member Service team (where applicable).

Their website legal subscript now shows for chequing:
1 Transactions include; bill payments, transfers between accounts, Interac® Direct Payment purchases, pre-authorized debit, ABM withdrawals and cheques performed by you via online or mobile banking or, our Member Service team (where applicable).

April 23, 2019
5:57 pm
Doug
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Actually, a savings account will automatically allow pre-authorized debits. You could technically use your Hubert HISA for all your automatic pre-authorized debits. They just don't promote that fact. Just make sure you use the transit number under which your Motus HISA and chequing accounts have been domiciled (i.e., from your statements), and it'll work. I can assure you with 100% confidence of this. sf-cool

Essentially, if you can set up your Motus HISA as a linked external account with your other non-Motus FI, then pre-authorized debits can be used since bank-to-bank transfers use the same EFT system as PADs.

Now, in terms of bill payments, that they can limit by the fact they can only let you specify your chequing account as the debit account for bill payments.

Cheers,
Doug

April 23, 2019
6:02 pm
Doug
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The Sweep feature is a very innovative feature, though...how does that work, will the automatic transfer to HISA occur at the end of the day just before the switchover to the next calendar day so your HISA will earn interest on that swept amount for the day?

Also, did you say just Meridian and Motus offer this feature or does CWB's Motive offer it, too?

Cheers,
Doug

April 23, 2019
6:24 pm
Briguy
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Doug said
The Sweep feature is a very innovative feature, though...how does that work, will the automatic transfer to HISA occur at the end of the day just before the switchover to the next calendar day so your HISA will earn interest on that swept amount for the day?

Also, did you say just Meridian and Motus offer this feature or does CWB's Motive offer it, too?

Cheers,
Doug  

I believe for Motive and Meridian that the automatic transfer from HISA to Chequing or vice versa occurs at end of day ( to top up your chequing to your minimum value, or to reduce it to your maximum value ).

Motive doesn't offer this. They have an overdraft feature, which I haven't signed up for, that is free if you transfer money by the end of the day yourself from your HISA into your chequing. So you can have a large cheque coming off for rent for example on a certain day, and then transfer the money same day into your chequing account from your HISA. They also allow 2 preauthorized debits a month on your HISA. Most other transactions on your HISA also count towards those free 2, except for ATM deposits and withdrawals and transfers between your Motive accounts.

April 23, 2019
6:31 pm
Briguy
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Doug said
Actually, a savings account will automatically allow pre-authorized debits. You could technically use your Hubert HISA for all your automatic pre-authorized debits. They just don't promote that fact. Just make sure you use the transit number under which your Motus HISA and chequing accounts have been domiciled (i.e., from your statements), and it'll work. I can assure you with 100% confidence of this. sf-cool

Essentially, if you can set up your Motus HISA as a linked external account with your other non-Motus FI, then pre-authorized debits can be used since bank-to-bank transfers use the same EFT system as PADs.

Now, in terms of bill payments, that they can limit by the fact they can only let you specify your chequing account as the debit account for bill payments.

Cheers,
Doug  

If I set up a preauthorized debit for my Rogers credit card payment for example, I HAVE to enclose a void cheque when I complete the PAD form.
https://rogersbank.com/legaldocs/en/RogersBank_PreAuthorizedDebit.pdf

Also, even if I could input the info for my HISA onto the PAD form, I'd be worried about getting bank charges from Motus.

April 23, 2019
8:56 pm
Doug
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Briguy said

If I set up a preauthorized debit for my Rogers credit card payment for example, I HAVE to enclose a void cheque when I complete the PAD form.
https://rogersbank.com/legaldocs/en/RogersBank_PreAuthorizedDebit.pdf

Also, even if I could input the info for my HISA onto the PAD form, I'd be worried about getting bank charges from Motus.  

Rogers should be able to let you attach a printout of your Motus e-Statement. A void cheque is not specifically required. Also, does Motus not provide you with some sort of "VOID cheque form" or "direct deposit form" you can print out, for either the chequing or the savings account? You can also use those and then in the blank space for a cheque on the Rogers PAD form, write, "see attached."

As for charges, they could charge for PADs on a savings account, but then they'd have to disclose that. If they charged you for a PAD on your savings account, you could dispute it and get it reversed. Even FCAC, their regulator, would side with you and likely order Motus to reverse the service charge.

And, it's unlikely they'd ever charge for PADs on a savings account because then they'd be charging for every externally-initiated PAD debited from your savings account. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 23, 2019
9:03 pm
Doug
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Briguy said

I believe for Motive and Meridian that the automatic transfer from HISA to Chequing or vice versa occurs at end of day ( to top up your chequing to your minimum value, or to reduce it to your maximum value ).

Motive doesn't offer this. They have an overdraft feature, which I haven't signed up for, that is free if you transfer money by the end of the day yourself from your HISA into your chequing. So you can have a large cheque coming off for rent for example on a certain day, and then transfer the money same day into your chequing account from your HISA. They also allow 2 preauthorized debits a month on your HISA. Most other transactions on your HISA also count towards those free 2, except for ATM deposits and withdrawals and transfers between your Motive accounts.  

Ah, thanks for clarifying that re: Motive. That sounds exactly like Tangerine's overdraft service. If you cover the overdraft on a Tangerine chequing account before the end of the day, there will be no interest and no fee. Also, with Tangerine, if you fail to cover the overdraft the same day in a month and have a subsequent uncovered overdraft the same day, they don't charge a second $5.00 fee - you'd only be charged the one fee for that month. I, too, have an approved $5,000 overdraft limit, but have never used it. sf-cool

As for the PADs on your savings account with Motive, yes, that's the Savvy Savings Account. Their regular Motive Savings Account, which pays a lower rate (2-2.25%, I think) allows unlimited free debit transactions, including PADs.

That Sweep feature with Motus + Meridian does sound pretty cool. sf-cool

I'd be curious to know if you can use your Motus debit card to make a deposit at an Acculink (credit union) ATM that isn't an Exchange ATM network member. Apparently, it's possible to do this with Alterna Bank, since it uses the same platform as Alterna Savings (the credit union). Acculink is supposed to be a credit union-only surcharge-free ATM network, so if you can, then that's a game changer if you live in the prairie provinces where The Exchange ATM Network is not common (only HSBC, in Saskatoon and Regina, and TCU Financial Group are on The Exchange in Saskatchewan - everyone else is on only Acculink).

Cheers,
Doug

April 24, 2019
6:19 am
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Briguy said

Also, even if I could input the info for my HISA onto the PAD form, I'd be worried about getting bank charges from Motus.

motusbank could return the debit as NCP "No Debit Allowed" (reason 907). Rogers Bank could then charge a returned item fee.

I'm surprised motusbank has removed preauthorized debits and bill payments from their HISA features after just a month.

April 24, 2019
6:45 am
Doug
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Norman1 said

Briguy said

Also, even if I could input the info for my HISA onto the PAD form, I'd be worried about getting bank charges from Motus.

motusbank could return the debit as NCP "No Debit Allowed" (reason 907). Rogers Bank could then charge a returned item fee.

I'm surprised motusbank has removed preauthorized debits and bill payments from their HISA features after just a month.  

They could, but since pre-authorized debits include bank-to-bank transfers, they'd essentially have to manually process each and every pre-authorized debit and it would be inordinately time consuming, not to mention cost prohibitive. I've also never seen that done in my many years of experience, other than potentially when an account is blocked (i.e., deceased account before probate is provided, etc.) then funds would definitely be returned for that reason code (i.e., "no debits allowed").

I would test it first and see if you can send a pre-authorized debit (i.e., a "pull" money transfer) from your Motus HISA and, if you can, then PADs for bill payees would work just the same way. sf-cool

Bill payments are definitely something they can easily restrict, by only allowing the customer, which they also call a "member" even though Motus customers are not Meridian owners, to only select a Motus chequing account as the debit account.

Cheers,
Doug

April 24, 2019
6:40 pm
Briguy
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As far as I can figure out from the web, Motus debit card holders only have free access to the 3700 ATM's of the Exchange network, not to the Acculink network like Alterna Bank. I guess they are not too worried about the Prairie provinces, because there are a lot of Exchange ATMs in Ontario and British Columbia.

April 25, 2019
6:53 am
Doug
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Briguy said
As far as I can figure out from the web, Motus debit card holders only have free access to the 3700 ATM's of the Exchange network, not to the Acculink network like Alterna Bank. I guess they are not too worried about the Prairie provinces, because there are a lot of Exchange ATMs in Ontario and British Columbia.  

Yeah, but what I want to figure out is whether Meridian Credit Union is one of the credit unions not on the Acculink network. If they are, then that's correct. If they aren't, and are on the Acculink network, then that's likely incorrect on their website.

I've noticed a few inaccuracies on Motus' website, including the no mention of PADs on the high interest savings account, which isn't correct as any savings account can have PADs debited from it. They refer to something called "online cheques," which could be a funny way of saying PADs, but that would definitely be...unprecedented terminology in terms of them being the first to use it! 😉

Cheers,
Doug

April 25, 2019
1:59 pm
Briguy
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Doug said

Yeah, but what I want to figure out is whether Meridian Credit Union is one of the credit unions not on the Acculink network. If they are, then that's correct. If they aren't, and are on the Acculink network, then that's likely incorrect on their website.

I've noticed a few inaccuracies on Motus' website, including the no mention of PADs on the high interest savings account, which isn't correct as any savings account can have PADs debited from it. They refer to something called "online cheques," which could be a funny way of saying PADs, but that would definitely be...unprecedented terminology in terms of them being the first to use it! 😉

Cheers,
Doug  

I called Meridian Bank today and confirmed 100% that they are only on the Exchange Network, and have nothing to do with the Acculink Network.

There are quite a few credit unions on the Exchange Network in Manitoba and Saskatchewan in the main cities only;
and Alberta, Ontario and the Maritimes have a lot all over.
National Bank and HSBC have a nation wide presence in the main cities and are on the Exchange Network.

April 25, 2019
2:20 pm
Doug
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Briguy said

I called Meridian Bank today and confirmed 100% that they are only on the Exchange Network, and have nothing to do with the Acculink Network.

There are quite a few credit unions on the Exchange Network in Manitoba and Saskatchewan in the main cities only;
and Alberta, Ontario and the Maritimes have a lot all over.
National Bank and HSBC have a nation wide presence in the main cities and are on the Exchange Network.  

Thanks for checking, but I wonder if that is their standard, scripted answer. Often what a company tells you is not reality and I suspect this may be the case, so need someone to do a real ATM deposit at an Acculink-only ATM to attempt it.

If, indeed, it's Exchange network only, that's actually not correct. National Bank only has branches and ATMs in Quebec and some of the major cities in Ontario. They might have 1 branch in each of Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg. HSBC is basically non-existent in Saskatchewan and Manitoba and only in Calgary, Edmonton, Medicine Hat, Red Deer, and Lethbridge (rumours persist of them exiting at least two of the latter three of those cities). East of Quebec, due to more branch closures (or planned future branch closures), HSBC has only 1 branch in each of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland and Labrador. They are non-existent in PEI. So, I wouldn't characterize them as having a national branch network - they're basically a B.C. and Ontario regional bank, with a handful of branches in each of Alberta and Quebec. So, that's what I say, outside of the major urban cities, Exchange network is non-viable for a day-to-day banking/chequing account w/debit card. You'd actually be better off with Tangerine, since at least you can use Scotiabank ATMs at the 7-Elevens surcharge-free and at Scotiabank branches to make deposits/withdraw cash.

We'll need to test it, though, to see if one can actually use an Acculink ATM (since Motus is on the same platform as Meridian). Otherwise, it's roughly on par with CWB's Motive Financial and that would give Alterna Bank the edge. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 25, 2019
3:31 pm
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I read that Manulife Bank added Exchange ATM machines to every Macs Milk in Winnipeg. At least you're covered in Winnipeg if you have Motus 🙂

Motive Financial and Motus Bank have one free cheque book, Alterna doesn't 🙂

I'm kidding- Alterna is better in many ways due to the coverdraft protection, belonging to Exchange and Interlink networks, and especially for those of us since it is based in Ontario with physical branches here if you need to see someone. The interest rates aren't quite as good as Manitoba credit unions or Motus Bank but much better than the big banks.

At this point if I had to have one institution for RRIF it would either be Motus Bank or Hubert , probably Hubert.

April 25, 2019
3:55 pm
Doug
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Briguy said
I read that Manulife Bank added Exchange ATM machines to every Macs Milk in Winnipeg. At least you're covered in Winnipeg if you have Motus 🙂

Motive Financial and Motus Bank have one free cheque book, Alterna doesn't 🙂

I'm kidding- Alterna is better in many ways due to the coverdraft protection, belonging to Exchange and Interlink networks, and especially for those of us since it is based in Ontario with physical branches here if you need to see someone. The interest rates aren't quite as good as Manitoba credit unions or Motus Bank but much better than the big banks.

At this point if I had to have one institution for RRIF it would either be Motus Bank or Hubert, probably Hubert.  

I <3 Hubert, too...their D.O.G.s is a cool idea. And they provide wonderful service. sf-cool

That said, poor Implicity Financial does not get the kind of love and attention that Hubert does. Sure, they don't have a "refer a friend" promotion like Achieva and Hubert, but they do offer a debit card, surcharge-free Acculink ATM cash withdrawals (in addition to deposits), Me-to-Me transfers, no fees of any kind (except for fees on point-of-sale purchases, but it is a savings account after all). Their e-Statements are beautiful and even more detailed than Hubert's, so they'd be comparable to Motive, Motus, Meridian, and Coast Capital. They recently added e-documents, so you can get your t-slips online now without having to wait in the mail (hope Hubert adds that soon), have secure e-mail + live chat functionality, and they're adding paperless account opening and account linking later this year. And, their service is top notch, like Hubert. They also offer 1-year GICs on RRIFs.

Yes, you can use the Manulife Bank ATMs for cash withdrawals, but I haven't analyzed whether there are more of those in rural locations of the prairies relative to 7-Eleven/Scotiabank ATMs.

In the major centres in the prairies, Motus and Motive are equally fine. Not sure which I'd go with; I want Motive to succeed, but given that they've only managed to attract a relatively small ~$350 million in deposits (thankfully, they at least disclose their Motive Financial deposit base unlike many of the Manitoba CUs), I worry that Canadian Western Bank may pull a BMO or a Vancity and abandon their direct banking strategy. That said, they're a scrappy little bank and their divisional manager is semi-active on social media, so I like that. It's hard to say, on that basis, whether Motive or Motus. Maybe Motus?

Alterna Bank doesn't offer free cheques, that's true, but you can order a book of 200 cheques through third-party providers for ~$40 all in, which is half the price (or more) that D+H would charge (they charge between $38-42 for a book of between 50-100 cheques). You can order less cheques with ASAP Cheques, for as little as ~$25 all-in, but then your per-cheque cost rises a bit. DiscountCheques.com is another good one that gets favourable ratings. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 26, 2019
8:24 am
Doug
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Briguy et al.,

In checking each of the Canadian Credit Union Association's ATM Locator tool (link: https://locator.ccua.com/) and the Acculink ding-free™ ATM locator website (link: https://www.ding-free.ca/), I've confirmed with both websites that Meridian Credit Union, Ltd., is indeed one of the few Canadian credit unions (there are only handful of them, literally!) that isn't an Acculink (ding-free™) ATM network member. So, indeed, that means that Meridian and, by extension, Motus Bank can only access Exchange ATMs (lots in the prairie and atlantic provinces that they won't be able to access).

So, on that basis, Alterna Bank beats Motus Bank (and Motive Financial) by almost every metric. The big "knock" against Alterna, though, is their maximum balance limitation. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 26, 2019
2:01 pm
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Doug said
Briguy et al.,

In checking each of the Canadian Credit Union Association's ATM Locator tool (link: https://locator.ccua.com/) and the Acculink ding-free™ ATM locator website (link: https://www.ding-free.ca/), I've confirmed with both websites that Meridian Credit Union, Ltd., is indeed one of the few Canadian credit unions (there are only handful of them, literally!) that isn't an Acculink (ding-free™) ATM network member. So, indeed, that means that Meridian and, by extension, Motus Bank can only access Exchange ATMs (lots in the prairie and atlantic provinces that they won't be able to access).

So, on that basis, Alterna Bank beats Motus Bank (and Motive Financial) by almost every metric. The big "knock" against Alterna, though, is their maximum balance limitation. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug  

Also, you avoid any potential complications of probate later in a different province like Loonie said. Like you mentioned Alterna is guaranteed like Motus, Peoples Trust,Motive Financial and any other bank up to 100,000 by CDIC. And not sure if it matters, but Manitoba credit unions are guaranteed by a corporation that is not a provincial body, whereas Deposit Insurance Corporation of Ontario is a provincial agency. So if interest rates were relatively the same, I'd put my 100,000 in a CDIC guaranteed Ontario bank first ( Motus or Alterna ), 250,000 in Ontario credit union second, 100,000 dollars in Motive Financial third ( Alberta bank ), and an unlimited amount in a Manitoba credit union fourth.

Since I want to have all my RRSP and later RRIF in one FI, I'm keeping it with Hubert. ( I'm not including any other type of investments like stock market ).

April 26, 2019
2:24 pm
Doug
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Briguy said

Also, you avoid any potential complications of probate later in a different province like Loonie said. Like you mentioned Alterna is guaranteed like Motus, Peoples Trust,Motive Financial and any other bank up to 100,000 by CDIC. And not sure if it matters, but Manitoba credit unions are guaranteed by a corporation that is not a provincial body, whereas Deposit Insurance Corporation of Ontario is a provincial agency. So if interest rates were relatively the same, I'd put my 100,000 in a CDIC guaranteed Ontario bank first ( Motus or Alterna ), 250,000 in Ontario credit union second, 100,000 dollars in Motive Financial third ( Alberta bank ), and an unlimited amount in a Manitoba credit union fourth.

Since I want to have all my RRSP and later RRIF in one FI, I'm keeping it with Hubert. ( I'm not including any other type of investments like stock market ).  

Your deposit insurance strategy is reasonable, but small point of clarification: there's no difference in Motive Financial, part of Canadian Western Bank, from a Motus Bank or Alterna Bank from a deposit insurance perspective. There may from a dual probate perspective, but this is untested. A duly constituted and probated will in one province should be valid and accepted by other banks and credit unions. At HSBC, in one instance, we accepted the will probated in Ontario for an HSBC customer with the estate trustee being based in British Columbia (he had to be approved as the estate trustee by the Ontario court since the named executor had predeceased the client, or perhaps died shortly after the client died). Nevertheless, if you want to be extra cautious, I guess you could rank Motive Financial 2nd or 3rd, but not on the basis of deposit insurance.

At this point, I'm waiting to hear back from Motus Bank if they manually or automatically post direct deposits and pre-authorized debits. If manually posted, that would likely explain the 3-4 day delay in posting such transactions that 1-2 forum users/Motus customers have reported. It would also mean they could reject PADs on a savings account. If it turns out that's the case, then I would just say that's a #majorfail on the part of Motus and they would not be getting my business. I would be looking at Alterna Bank as a potential new primary bank to replace Coast Capital next year, if they don't get their act together and make Interac e-Transfers free & bring in bank-to-bank transfers, or possibly Motive Financial before I'd select Motus (despite Motus' nice Sweep feature). sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

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