I was turned down by Motive again. Why? | Motive Financial | Discussion forum

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

No permission to create posts
sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
I was turned down by Motive again. Why?
July 5, 2023
4:10 pm
piggybank
British Columbia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
September 29, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I just applied for a Motive HISA this week. They rejected my application:

Thanks so much for your interest in Motive Financial. Unfortunately, at this time we can't approve your application. This doesn't mean you'll never be able to open a Motive Financial account - you can apply again in six months.

I applied about a year ago and I got the same rejection.

Why would they reject an applicant? Don't they want people's money?

July 5, 2023
4:18 pm
HermanH
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1187
Member Since:
April 14, 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Is there a CWB branch nearby? Since they have the same parent company/ownership, it might be easier to establish a live link with CWB and then try again with Motive.

July 5, 2023
4:27 pm
piggybank
British Columbia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
September 29, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

HermanH - thanks for your quick reply. I'm in Metro Vancouver. on https://www.cwbank.com/en/about-us/branch-locator?sc_trk=GlobalFindABranch, I see several branches in the metropolis. Would they entertain my request? Will they not shoo me out the door and tell me to apply online? Have you or anyone here had success opening a Motive HISA in a CWB brick and mortar branch?

July 5, 2023
8:36 pm
HermanH
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1187
Member Since:
April 14, 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

piggybank said
I see several branches in the metropolis. Would they entertain my request? Will they not shoo me out the door and tell me to apply online? Have you or anyone here had success opening a Motive HISA in a CWB brick and mortar branch?  

I think you mis-understand my suggestion. I suggest that you start an account with CWB. Because they are with the same parent/ownership, they probably share similar identification procedures. For example, they likely use the same credit bureau requests. If you hit a problem with Motive during the registration process, you might hit the same problem with a CWB process. However, with the CWB process, you should be able to ask the CSR immediately what the problem is and, hopefully, work around it.

If it is a data mis-match, at least you will know it and can contact the bureau to correct it. It might be that certain ID is being rejected by Motive. If you find suitable ID for CWB, alternative ID might be used for subsequent Motive applications. For example, I used my Govt of Canada-issued Firearms Acquisition Certificate for one bank application. I didn't know it was possible, but I wanted to try it, when I saw it listed as acceptable documentation. It had some hiccups during the registration process, but the fact that I did it in person at a branch, the CSR managed to get it to work.

Bring lots of documentation and every shred of evidence for your identity. Bills, bank statements, passport, citizenship papers, other Gov't of Canada ID, etc.

When Motive needed some documentation from me, (I think it was a void cheque), I was able to drop it at a CWB branch and have it sent to Motive via their internal mail system.

July 5, 2023
10:42 pm
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6860
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The physical Canadian Western Bank branches aren't going to use the same identity verification as online-only Motive Financial. Once a financial institution completes the face-to-face government photo ID method, there is no need for the insititution to also do the credit file method or dual-process method. FINTRAC only requires one of the five methods to be performed.

According to their FAQ, Motive uses Equifax to verify identity:

Whats my Social Insurance number (SIN) used for?

We use your SIN for income tax reporting on interest earned on your account. We also use your SIN to verify your identity by running an Equifax® deposit inquiry. Under The Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act, your deposit inquiry acts as a second piece of identification. To get this report, your SIN is used for accuracy in matching personal information.

When you apply for an account you can opt out of using your SIN for identification purposes. If opt out, Motive will obtain a deposit inquiry to verify your identify using other information in your application.

Without your SIN, the credit report may not be complete or accurate and may affect our decision to open your account.

I would start by requesting a copy of the credit record at Equifax Canada. The Equifax record needs to be three years or older and have info from at least two different sources to satisfy the credit file method.

I haven't seen the term "deposit inquiry" used before. That may be a reference to Equifax Canada's Deposit Alert service for businesses:

Product Overview
Deposit Alert is an invaluable source of information containing data on individual bank account misuse. If an applicant has had a deposit account closed due to misuse, with Deposit Alert, you’ll know.

Help identify and avoid risky customers and prospects before they harm your bottom line with Deposit Alert. With access to this centralized automated database you can easily identify which of your credit applicants might be negatively impacting your business.

Could be someone with similar info has been blacklisted for deposit account abuse.

July 7, 2023
7:45 am
for interest sake
Ontario
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 42
Member Since:
December 7, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Have you phoned Motive to ask? They've always been helpful in answering any questions I might have.

July 9, 2023
6:13 pm
mechone
Ontario
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 177
Member Since:
January 28, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm guessing credit rating

July 10, 2023
12:03 pm
piggybank
British Columbia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 127
Member Since:
September 29, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I emailed them and here's their response:

Hello,

We do not have access to any unapproved applications, however, there are a few common reasons for this:

Information applied with is incomplete,
Information applied with does not match your credit file,
Your credit file does not meet our requirements,
Applied using a VPA, corporate or public internet,
Applied using a work or public computer,
Applied from a location not local to Canada, etc.

If you have any additional questions, please give us a call to discuss this further.

Thank you,

July 22, 2023
7:41 am
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4254
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

piggybank said
I emailed them and here's their response:

Hello,

We do not have access to any unapproved applications, however, there are a few common reasons for this:

Information applied with is incomplete,
Information applied with does not match your credit file,
Your credit file does not meet our requirements,
Applied using a VPA, corporate or public internet,
Applied using a work or public computer,
Applied from a location not local to Canada, etc.

If you have any additional questions, please give us a call to discuss this further.

Thank you,

  

That's actually quite a helpful response. Have you looked at a copy of your online consumer disclosure from TransUnion and your free by mail consumer disclosure from Equifax? Did you keep a digital PDF of the online forms you submitted? Compare the latter to the former, and see where there may be a mismatch. If not a mismatch, do you have Apple iCloud Private Relay or Cloudflare Warp+ turned on, do you use the Opera or Brave web browsers (which have built-in VPNs), do you have a Google One subscription with their free Google VPN turned on by default, do you use the Tor web browser, did you apply from work or school? Those would be the second most likely reasons.

The third one is a bit tricky. If that is the case, I would recommend phoning them and asking them to correspond directly with you via postal mail if they cannot divulge private information via e-mail, and ask for more specifics. If they refuse, escalate it as a complaint to their (CWB) Senior Manager office and/or Customer Complaints Office. Under the Access to Basic Banking Regulations, something you don't have with provincially-regulated credit unions, you have the right to complain to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada and say you were not provided with an opportunity to open a limited basic banking account in Canada. "Basic banking" doesn't include the right to have a debit card with a cash back (i.e., no holds on deposits, other than the first $100, in most circumstances) limit, but you should be able to open a basic savings account or a chequing account without paper chequing privileges (they have few exceptions to this). 🙂

That being said, Motive Financial is likely finally in rapid decline, with customer growth that may be negative (i.e., customer closures outpace new customers) and its deposits have been negative for two years, down about 20% in the past two years ($1 billion in deposits to $800 million). (These are Motive Financial branch transit total deposits; CWB's deposits are much higher, obviously, but they illustrate the state of this deposit gathering channel for CWB.)

If it is just their HISA, it's not even competitive, really. Dust off your brokerage account and grab a brokerage ISA, HISA ETF, or short-term (1-3 month) Treasury Bill ETF like CBIL. sf-cool

Hope that helps,
Doug

n.b. They have access to unapproved applications; I suspect they just can't discuss them via unsecured channels like e-mail, hence you may have to go with a formal postal mail complaint up the complaint funnels. FCAC can be a parallel complaint venue to the Senior Manager-->Customer Complaints Office-->Internal Bank Ombudsman-->OBSI-->Federal Court of Canada process.

July 22, 2023
10:45 am
Norman1
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 6860
Member Since:
April 6, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Doug said

… Under the Access to Basic Banking Regulations, something you don't have with provincially-regulated credit unions, you have the right to complain to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada and say you were not provided with an opportunity to open a limited basic banking account in Canada. "Basic banking" doesn't include the right to have a debit card with a cash back (i.e., no holds on deposits, other than the first $100, in most circumstances) limit, but you should be able to open a basic savings account or a chequing account without paper chequing privileges (they have few exceptions to this). 🙂

That complaint will go nowhere; the Bank Act subsection 627.17 (1) right requires one to apply in person through a natural person:

Opening

627.17 (1) Subject to subsection (2), a member bank shall, at any point of service or any branch in Canada at which it opens retail deposit accounts through natural persons, open a retail deposit account on the request, made there in person, of a natural person who …

Consequently, there is no right to open an online-only bank account through a web server which is not a natural person.

July 22, 2023
1:51 pm
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 4254
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Norman1 said

Doug said

… Under the Access to Basic Banking Regulations, something you don't have with provincially-regulated credit unions, you have the right to complain to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada and say you were not provided with an opportunity to open a limited basic banking account in Canada. "Basic banking" doesn't include the right to have a debit card with a cash back (i.e., no holds on deposits, other than the first $100, in most circumstances) limit, but you should be able to open a basic savings account or a chequing account without paper chequing privileges (they have few exceptions to this). 🙂

That complaint will go nowhere; the Bank Act subsection 627.17 (1) right requires one to apply in person through a natural person:

Opening

627.17 (1) Subject to subsection (2), a member bank shall, at any point of service or any branch in Canada at which it opens retail deposit accounts through natural persons, open a retail deposit account on the request, made there in person, of a natural person who …

Consequently, there is no right to open an online-only bank account through a web server which is not a natural person.  

Fair enough. Thanks for the reminder. I suspect that may be an near- to medium-term avenue for legislative amendment, though. Easy win as a consumer friendly pre-election promise by an incumbent or challenger government that costs government nothing (other than a bit of paper for printing the draft and final legislation and related materials). sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

July 22, 2023
2:07 pm
cgouimet
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1481
Member Since:
February 7, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

piggybank said
I emailed them and here's their response:

Hello,

We do not have access to any unapproved applications, however, there are a few common reasons for this:

Information applied with is incomplete,
Information applied with does not match your credit file,
Your credit file does not meet our requirements,
Applied using a VPA, corporate or public internet,
Applied using a work or public computer,
Applied from a location not local to Canada, etc.

If you have any additional questions, please give us a call to discuss this further.

Thank you,

  

So, do any of those "problematic" situations apply to you? If so, can you fix?

If not and since you seem so wanting to bank with Motive after all this time, and since there are "several" physical locations close to you, why not go to one of them and get everything done with?

CGO
July 22, 2023
2:24 pm
AltaRed
BC Interior
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2966
Member Since:
October 27, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree that email response from Motive is quite helpful to eliminate reasons by exception, but the OP also has not indicated s/he has phoned them since the July 10th post to find out 'why'.

July 22, 2023
3:03 pm
cgouimet
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1481
Member Since:
February 7, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

AltaRed said
I agree that email response from Motive is quite helpful to eliminate reasons by exception, but the OP also has not indicated s/he has phoned them since the July 10th post to find out 'why'.  

Also, He/She has two threads going on this topic...

CGO
July 23, 2023
12:33 pm
COIN
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 1122
Member Since:
March 15, 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

To be fair. I had allowed my Motive account to lapse through no activity. I called and they opened a new account for me and also gave me some free cheques.

December 25, 2023
4:14 pm
agjlo
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
December 25, 2023
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

piggybank said
I just applied for a Motive HISA this week. They rejected my application:

Thanks so much for your interest in Motive Financial. Unfortunately, at this time we can't approve your application. This doesn't mean you'll never be able to open a Motive Financial account - you can apply again in six months.

I applied about a year ago and I got the same rejection.

Why would they reject an applicant? Don't they want people's money?  

May I know if you're on a temp SIN number? Thx. I've got the same problem.

January 17, 2024
10:02 am
YoHoJo
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 24
Member Since:
July 28, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Did anyone's application for a chequing/savings account get decined by any financial institution BUT Motive?
I never heard that it was a thing, anywhere in the world where I bank. This is the 1st time in my long life that an obscure financial institution dares to ban me for 6 months from applying for their accounts, for no obvious reason.
I bank with dozens of institutions worldwide, and in many decades no one dared to just throw me out the door w/o giving me a reason.
To say that I am furious is a huge understatement. If this is a Canadian thing, if Canada allows this, then this country is in serious trouble, mentally and ethically.

January 17, 2024
11:00 am
smayer97
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 821
Member Since:
September 29, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

5 of us appli(wife and adult kids) and my middle son got rejected. No obvious reason... he has no history, so can't be something bad on record.

Got around this by applying for another product... rejected for HISA, applied for TFSA. Once approved, was able to then open a HISA. Go figure. YMMV

January 24, 2024
12:57 pm
YoHoJo
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 24
Member Since:
July 28, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

smayer97 said
Got around this by applying for another product... 

How? As soon as one applies with the same email address/phone# Motive boots them for 6 months. There is no choice of products offered at that point.

January 24, 2024
7:36 pm
smayer97
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 821
Member Since:
September 29, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

YoHoJo said

smayer97 said
Got around this by applying for another product... 

How? As soon as one applies with the same email address/phone# Motive boots them for 6 months. There is no choice of products offered at that point.  

Interesting... When my son failed for an HISA, he applied for a TFSA and was approved. Then, once that was set up, he was able to open a HISA.

No permission to create posts

Please write your comments in the forum.