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Hoops and Hoops and Hoops
July 21, 2019
6:11 am
MapleOne
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So I decided to open an account with Motive to take advantage of the 2.8%.
I figured I wanted to keep some cash liquid and I phoned them and was told one million was the limit so I decided to put in 975K so I could earn interest without worrying about going over the limit. Anything over 1 million you basically get squat.

So how was my experience?

OMG... insanely stupid., they use everything manual, it drove me nuts, two weeks and still waiting,. Here is the process.

1. Apply online
2. Wait over one week
3. Call and told to hold my horses
4. Get an email saying need more info
5. Asked me to electronically link my bank account
6. Wait another week
7. Email saying soon I will have account.
8. Email to fill out 3 more forms, link account form, tax form, signature form.
9. Asked me for blank cheque for linked account. Huh, I'm linking a savings account?
10. Download form from Simplii for direct deposit authorization for Motive.
11. Called motive and told them this is stupid I had already linked my account in step 5.
12. Got an email account is linked but I have to call in to manually log in with them first time and it must be from desktop.
13. They use only pass codes and account numbers for login and everything looks like it is designed in the 80's.
14. A number of attempts on phone and all logged in.
Tried to transfer funds and said account needs verification AGAIN!!! Holy crap.
15. Called and was told they will deposit two small amounts and I must call back to verify.
16. Waiting, waiting, and still waiting?

So, how was your day?

July 21, 2019
9:58 am
Saver-Mom
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You have a million to plop into a liquid account?
My day is not as good as yours...

July 21, 2019
10:13 am
MapleOne
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I have been fortunate in my business ventures. sf-smile

July 21, 2019
4:47 pm
GR
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MapleOne,

Do you feel compelled to disclose dollar amounts in your postings, rather than being discreet and leaving out non-vital private information, such as $$$?? Is your motive to boast to try to impress other members??

Quotes from MapleOne:

So I decided to open an account with Motive to take advantage of the 2.8%.
I figured I wanted to keep some cash liquid and I phoned them and was told one million was the limit so I decided to put in 975K so I could earn interest without worrying about going over the limit. Anything over 1 million you basically get squat.

I had almost 3 million there and the max they did was 1.15%

July 21, 2019
4:58 pm
Doug
British Columbia, Canada
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MapleOne, your experience with Motive Financial is not typical. As a matter of course, Motive Financial accounts are normally opened and fully activated for use within 2-3 business days, based on the dozens of reports I've reviewed on this and RFD forums. Moreover, they use the OpenAnywhere™ technology from Central 1 Credit Union, as I understand it, that has you fund your new account by sending an Interac e-Transfer from your other bank account.

If your experience was slow, it could be because Motive has had to use an alternate, manual process of verifying you, possibly because you didn't answer the verification questions from your TransUnion soft credit check correctly, you have a fraud block on either of your TU or Equifax credit bureaus, or there was a mismatch in the information you supplied on your application form and the information on one or more credit bureaus.

Another user, Michael, reported that Motive Financial declined him, at least initially, due to him likely having not enough current information and tradelines (in the last 3 years) on his credit bureau. Since then, which was only a few months ago, Motive Financial has since been manually approving customers with similar credit bureau verification problems, but it takes time. They are a small, lean operation with a dozen (maybe two) staff total. Canadian Western Bank's contact centre services Motive Financial customers after hours with lost/stolen debit cards and forgotten PINs, but all other queries are handled by Motive Financial virtual branch staff. They just don't have the staffing to timely process new applications like a Simplii or a Tangerine.

Also, as for Motus Bank, their account opening system may be slick, but you will be adding 3-4 business days on your EFT and cheque transaction processing and, if you're ever transferring in a registered account (especially a RRIF), forget about it. @Loonie can share his/her experience with you, or refer you to the last 10-20 pages of the "motusbank has launched" thread on this forum. 😉

When I'm finished my program, Motive Financial, Alterna Bank, North Peace Savings and Credit Union, or Innovation Credit Union will be my new primary financial institution, displacing Coast Capital Savings.

Cheers,
Doug

July 21, 2019
5:22 pm
MapleOne
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GR said
MapleOne,

Do you feel compelled to disclose dollar amounts in your postings, rather than being discreet and leaving out non-vital private information, such as $$$?? Is your motive to boast to try to impress other members??

Quotes from MapleOne:

So I decided to open an account with Motive to take advantage of the 2.8%.
I figured I wanted to keep some cash liquid and I phoned them and was told one million was the limit so I decided to put in 975K so I could earn interest without worrying about going over the limit. Anything over 1 million you basically get squat.

I had almost 3 million there and the max they did was 1.15%  

I don't need to brag, I'm simply stating facts.
With the amount I mentioned I got nowhere with the reps at Simplii.

This is a financial forum and using an alias I don't get any personal gratification out of quoting numbers.

July 21, 2019
5:29 pm
fabafter50
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MapleOne said

I don't need to brag, I'm simply stating facts.
With the amount I mentioned I got nowhere with the reps at Simplii.

This is a financial forum and using an alias I don't get any personal gratification out of quoting numbers.  

MapleOne, Unfortunately there is a lot of jealous pettiness on this site. Ignore it and just get the info you need. sf-cool

July 21, 2019
5:47 pm
Doug
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Agreed. If people want to share their net worth, as long as they're practicing responsible practices and taking steps to anonymize the information, I see no problem with it.

Some of the long-time forum members may remember a "Roz" user that routinely shared his net worth and annual income from employment and investments on here. He would state how he doesn't pay rent and saves very high percentages of his income. It was probably a bit of bragging, but each person's circumstances are different. Personally, I'd feel badly if I were not paying rent to my parents, but to each his own.

Still, GR is correct that Motive pays a much lower rate on deposits over $1 million. However, at least Motive takes deposits over $1 million; I wish Alterna Bank and EQ Bank would do that (that is, offer a lower rate on amounts above a certain threshold) instead of capping customer balances and having to manually call clients to tell them, "oh, would you mind kindly transferring out the portion of funds that exceeds $250,000?" Awkward!

Cheers,
Doug

July 21, 2019
6:19 pm
Canadianbull
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MapleOne said
So I decided to open an account with Motive to take advantage of the 2.8%.
I figured I wanted to keep some cash liquid and I phoned them and was told one million was the limit so I decided to put in 975K so I could earn interest without worrying about going over the limit. Anything over 1 million you basically get squat.

So how was my experience?

OMG... insanely stupid., they use everything manual, it drove me nuts, two weeks and still waiting,. Here is the process.

1. Apply online
2. Wait over one week
3. Call and told to hold my horses
4. Get an email saying need more info
5. Asked me to electronically link my bank account
6. Wait another week
7. Email saying soon I will have account.
8. Email to fill out 3 more forms, link account form, tax form, signature form.
9. Asked me for blank cheque for linked account. Huh, I'm linking a savings account?
10. Download form from Simplii for direct deposit authorization for Motive.
11. Called motive and told them this is stupid I had already linked my account in step 5.
12. Got an email account is linked but I have to call in to manually log in with them first time and it must be from desktop.
13. They use only pass codes and account numbers for login and everything looks like it is designed in the 80's.
14. A number of attempts on phone and all logged in.
Tried to transfer funds and said account needs verification AGAIN!!! Holy crap.
15. Called and was told they will deposit two small amounts and I must call back to verify.
16. Waiting, waiting, and still waiting?

So, how was your day?  

Yes, I am with Motive and if I recall correctly I filled online application on Dec 9th and someone asked for more information on Jan 19th via email. Account was open around Jan25th ish.

July 21, 2019
6:24 pm
Canadianbull
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Just an fyi. Their system is slow as compared to other FIs.

July 21, 2019
6:42 pm
Loonie
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As Doug has indicated, my experience with Motus is already documented.
However, I have not given up on Motus and continue to do business with them, aware of their weaknesses.

I have no problem with people disclosing their assets, although it could be annoying if repeated frequently for no obvious purpose. Here , I think the purpose was to show that even a very large amount would not budge Simplii. One person's "large amount" is not another's, so a financial range helps clarify. Sometimes, in order not to be so obvious, members will say something like "low six figures" etc. You might, accordingly, have said , "low 7 figures" if you thought the specifics might bother someone.

Personally, I choose not to share this information, and most here do not. Sometimes I think it would be very helpful to what I'm trying to communicate if I did, so I try to find workarounds.

July 21, 2019
6:49 pm
Oscar
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I don't think there's a problem if someone feels comfortable providing facts and figures if they are okay with it . Besides I had a good chuckle right off the top of this thread at saver-moms post. It changed the whole angle of the thread like a perfect deflection off a hard slap shot into the top corner .

July 21, 2019
6:59 pm
Peter
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Doug said
MapleOne, your experience with Motive Financial is not typical. As a matter of course, Motive Financial accounts are normally opened and fully activated for use within 2-3 business days, based on the dozens of reports I've reviewed on this and RFD forums.

I have been a generally happy Motive Financial customer for many years, but I have read many reports of slow account openings, such as here, here, here, and here.

July 21, 2019
7:11 pm
MapleOne
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Yes, my post was relevant and I was quoting the numbers as per their maximum allowance. I joined them because they had a million maximum, usually I get 250k or 500k as the maximum. The information I provide was relevant to the topic.

If I wanted to brag I would tell you my net worth, which you can guarantee I would not disclose. I have been following this forum for a while and the only reason I joined is to talk about bigger investments. If I wanted to stick to 100k then I would have left the funds at Simplii and be done with it.

But as an example... a 500k RRSP at 1.15% or 2.85% can yield a dramatic annual difference.

$5750 @ 1.15%
$14,250 at 2.85%

So my whole reason for joining the forum was to discuss larger deposits. This is in no way meant to be more important than someone else's deposits but we all have different fortunes in life and I must talk about what is relevant to me.

So no I don't brag or try to outshine anyone else because I'm sure there are a number of people on the forum who can keep me in their back pocket.

Thank you everyone for responding to my post, and I just wanted to clarify with @doug that I was not missing any information and at this point I am still waiting for the few pennies to deposit so I can tell them how much it was so they activate me. I applied July 11th and today is the end of the 21st. By comparisons with Motis I had my accounts opened in minutes.

July 22, 2019
3:49 am
Loonie
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@MapleOne, I don't know if you're going to find what you're looking for on this forum, i.e. people to discuss savings accounts for $3 million.
Nothing like that has come up in the 5+ years I've been here.
I think there are people who have financial assets in that range, but not that much in savings accounts.
If I had that much in savings accounts, I think I'd restrict myself to the financial institutions with the best credit ratings or unlimited deposit insurance. They would not necessarily pay the best rates, but my primary interest would be preserving what I had, secondary would be the rate. Hopping around to put 100K here or there to keep within insurance limits is a huge nuisance with that much money, and I wouldn't do it, but if you put more into some of the lower rated banks, you take more risk. The bank behind Oaken almost went belly-up a couple of years ago.

Norman1 can help you out with the credit ratings if you need that. The MB credit unions are usually the best for unlimited insurance and rates combination. Doug can help you out with assessing some of them, and there are various comments on the forum. I mentioned Steinbach and I think it's a good bet for you but haven't dealt with them personally.

If it were me, I think I'd put about half of it in 2 or 3 banks that had the best credit ratings, even if that meant the Big Five - I'd spread it out just in case one went rogue. You might consider some of the in-house offerings that are sort of mutual funds but not in the usual sense as they have defined rates and are insured - each big bank has them. At TD, they are numbered 8150 and following and were paying 1.6% as of June 30. AltaRed or someone else can help you find those. I believe these are only available with a brokerage account, but that's no big deal.
And I'd put the other half in Steinbach, getting their top tier rate. I'd sit back and just keep an eye on the rates at all these places in case remedial action is required. Rates change all the time in savings accounts.

July 22, 2019
4:02 am
MapleOne
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Thank you for that advice but I already have all my other portfolios. IE stock market, real estate portfolio etc. The cash is a slush fund and I am aware of the risks, but should a deposit go down it would not be the end of the world for me. I have always had slush funds in Presidents Choice and now Simplii and just decided to take advantage of some better rates.

So far I have used....

Simplii
Motus
Meridian (separate insurance from motus)
Motive (soon to receive funds)
Tangerine (soon to receive funds)

The only one I am leery about there is Motive, it looks like a pretty small operation to me and if Tangerine gives me a similar rate I will probably go with them because the Bank of Nova Scotia is pretty solid.

Motive is insured only to 100k and I know Simplii and Tangerine is too but they have a solid history. Motus is fairly new and I'm not as confident with Meridians history either.

So some of the credit unions in Manitoba are probably a good choice because of the 100% insurance but I have to find one or two with good rates and higher deposit limits.

July 22, 2019
4:07 am
MapleOne
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PS.... can anyone point me to the Oaken topic.
What happened and how did they recover?

July 22, 2019
4:51 am
krwilson
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I started an account for my wife on June 22nd, 2019 and finally had access to the account on July 11th, 2019. Now I have read I could (she) could have called in to get access earlier but I wanted to wait and see with snail mail how long this process would take....plus who wants to have to talk to some one when these online banks are online! To me their process is slow in this day and age. Plus they never did set up the external account, I did that once we had access to it. We also received the email for more information!? So this has occurred lately for Motus and Motive for my wife. Never has she had issue before with many other financial institutions.

Meanwhile EQ Bank offered the 3 month 3% GIC so no money has headed this way yet.

July 22, 2019
5:07 am
Loonie
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MapleOne said
PS.... can anyone point me to the Oaken topic.
What happened and how did they recover?  

You can find a lot about it if you look at the Oaken threads. The parent organization is called Home Capital Group (HCG). They have Home Bank and Home Trust, and you can get double insurance that way through Oaken
Ultimately, it was bailed out by none other than Warren Buffett, who has since retreated with his massive profits intact. He basically wanted to control it but that wasn't allowed. They seem to have recovered fine although others can probably give you more details or you can look it up or ask your broker about it from a stock perspective.

There were a couple of managers who did things they shouldn't have. I forget all the details now, but they are long gone.
I've had investments there throughout and have never worried as mine are under insurance limits. When they were in trouble, they had to offer high rates, so I bought more but still within limits. Glad I did.

Generally, they are very good to deal with.

Be aware, if you're not, that Tangerine is owned by Scotia but is separate. There is no guarantee that Scotia would keep it or back it up if it went sour.

Simplii, on the other hand, is part and parcel of CIBC. They share the same single insurance limit.

With all that money and investments, I'm really surprised you would want to bother chasing these smaller banks with all their various limits and limitations.

Each one has its fans and its detractors.
I use a number of them, but like Hubert and Oaken the best. All have strengths and weaknesses. IMO, Tangerine would not be worth your while playing around with; they require too much babysitting for rates.

I think it's fair to say that, generally, big money like yours goes to big banks because they are more able to handle it. A small financial institution can't afford many people like you, so they have deposit limits. They can't afford for you to decide to up and take your money and put it somewhere else because it's too large a chunk of their business. They also need to diversify their customer base so that they can hope to sell additional products to those customers in future, which you probably won't buy.
In my opinion, the small banks are best suited to people who are only going to keep 100K or so there anyway (or perhaps 250 in the case of ONtario CUs.) I do think we're long overdue for increasing the CDIC limits, but, still, would only be maybe 200K, and very unlikely to happen any time soon.

I think I've told you all I can that is relevant. Look at Steinbach. I don't use it because it doesn't suit my needs and I don't think I would put 250+K in a MB CU, but I think it would suit yours. Steinbach is quite a wealthy community, so it makes sense for them to do what they do. At least once that I recall, they had the highest average incomes of any place in Canada.

July 22, 2019
11:15 am
Doug
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Thanks for clarifying, MapleOne. I'm not sure why the reason your Motive Financial account opening took longer and, yes, while there have been other reports on negative account opening experiences which Peter highlighted nicely, on the whole, the positive reports vastly outnumber the negative reports.

Bottom line: Motus Bank seems to have a very slick account opening and external bank account linking process, so they have an edge over Motive Financial on that front. However, Motive is by no means the most outdated account opening process. (That honour might go to HSBC Bank Canada, which re-introduced online account openings but which still requires you visit one of their sparsely located branches to have your ID verified in-person, or to one of the credit unions which doesn't have an online account opening process yet, such as Interior Savings Credit Union.) Once your Motive account is up and running, though, you will have a very smooth and efficient experience, with faster transaction processing times and deposit hold limits whereby, provided your credit is good (and I'm sure it is), they'll trust you by releasing a portion of your ATM and/or pulled EFT deposits without any holds.

Loonie has some good advice re: Steinbach Credit Union. Another possibility, if you want to spread it around, is Access Credit Union. Both of them offer the highest HISA deposit rates in Canada, with one important caveat. Interest is paid annually in November on your lowest balance each month. So, it's strongly advised, if you need to withdraw funds, on or after December 1st each year, so as to maximize the interest you earn.

As for Home Capital Group, that was related to a mini-bank run brought on by some problems with mortgages with falsified or missing documentation in their broker channel. They've since improved their internal controls to the satisfaction of regulators and have, in fact, fully repaid their standby credit facilities provided initially by a Berkshire Hathaway subsidiary, Columbia Insurance Company, in exchange for equity in the company. The company actually bought back between 20-25% of their outstanding shares now, most of which were the shares Berkshire had acquired for about $9.50 per share, at an average price of around $16 per share. Berkshire still holds some shares, presumably, but is less than the 5% of outstanding shares now (had been as high as 20%), so we won't know when they've sold the last of them as they're no longer required to disclose their ownership stake. The company is generating boatloads of cash and have yet to reinstate their dividend, which they'd eliminated, though there's growing pressure on them to pay a $1.00/share annual dividend, which would yield between 4-5% and be between 30-50% of their annual net income. Having all that extra free cash, they're investing in updating their core banking and online banking systems to streamline their account opening and external account linking systems. In short, they're firing on all cylinders and doing very well now. They also exceed the required regulatory minimum of having 9.5% of their assets (principally, loans and mortgages) in common equity share capital by a wide margin (around 20% when I last checked). Still, it's prudent to stay within your CDIC limits, but with both sole and joint accounts, in non-registered, TFSA, and RRSP, and across both Home Trust and Home Bank issuers, it's possible for you and your spouse to be CDIC insured to $1 million.

I agree with you that there's a big difference on $500k for 1.15% vs. 2.85%, but the difference between 2.85% (the regular rate Access and Steinbach pay, by the way, not a promo rate) and, say, 2.30% is much less, about $2750 per year ($11,500 versus $14,250). Still, it's not insignificant, but depends on how much hassle you want to spread your money around in $100,000 increments as Loonie noted and, with the Manitoba CUs offering unlimited deposit insurance (which likely wouldn't even need to be tapped as DGCM would likely force another CU to assume the deposits), what's not to like? As noted, Access and Steinbach offer 2.85%, with the above-noted caveat on interest payment method and calculation.

Cheers,
Doug

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