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Removing my name off title
November 27, 2019
7:13 am
abduls16
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Hello,

My brother and I own a property (50/50) that was initially paid off, until we both re-financed a small amount of 85K with TD - Setup as a 5year variable mortgage.
Currently, my brother is looking to buy me out and I just bought my own place.
Called TD, and they said that we would have to break the mortgage and my brother would have to re-qualify as he would maintain the re-finance amount fully under his name.
Checking to see anyone here can provide additional options that may work for us.
Thank you.

November 27, 2019
9:27 am
Bill
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Options re what? Depends on what are you trying to avoid or accomplish? (Also might help to know if you two held the property jointly or as tenants in common.)

November 27, 2019
12:45 pm
abduls16
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Bill said
Options re what? Depends on what are you trying to avoid or accomplish? (Also might help to know if you two held the property jointly or as tenants in common.)  

Hello...
Trying to accomplish: remove my name from the title and my brother will take full ownership of the property and have him as 100% owner of it. Currently we both hold the property title jointly.

Thank you.

November 27, 2019
1:34 pm
Londonguy
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abduls16 said

Hello...
Trying to accomplish: remove my name from the title and my brother will take full ownership of the property and have him as 100% owner of it. Currently we both hold the property title jointly.

Thank you.  

If you bought it together and qualified for the financing on the basis of you being joint owners, then it is what it is. If you want to now change the house ownership and mortgage structure after the fact, your brother needs to be able to qualify to carry the mortgage on his own as an individual since only he will be on the hook going forward. Hence TD's position that as joint owners you need to bust the existing joint liability paper first, and then your brother needs to get his own new mortgage.

While it would be nice of TD to waive any penalties involved by this change since your brother intends on getting the replacement mortgage through them, it's not as simple as it sounds, and banks are notoriously not nice. Maybe you'll be able to get them to eat the legal for the mortgage discharge and re-registration costs, but I'm not even confident of that. Good luck with it.

EDIT: I also have another idea for you -- post your question here and see if one of the mortgage brokers that hang out there can help you -- http://forums.redflagdeals.com.....ad-351105/
Paul Meredith is particularly a straight shooter

November 27, 2019
1:45 pm
abduls16
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Londonguy said

If you bought it together and qualified for the financing on the basis of you being joint owners, then it is what it is. If you want to now change the house ownership and mortgage structure after the fact, your brother needs to be able to qualify to carry the mortgage on his own as an individual since only he will be on the hook going forward. Hence TD's position that as joint owners you need to bust the existing joint liability paper first, and then your brother needs to get his own new mortgage.

While it would be nice of TD to waive any penalties involved by this change since your brother intends on getting the replacement mortgage through them, it's not as simple as it sounds, and banks are notoriously not nice. Maybe you'll be able to get them to eat the legal for the mortgage discharge and re-registration costs, but I'm not even confident of that. Good luck with it.

EDIT: I also have another idea for you -- post your question here and see if one of the mortgage brokers that hang out there can help you -- http://forums.redflagdeals.com.....ad-351105/
Paul Meredith is particularly a straight shooter  

Thanks for the details
Would you be able to elaborate on your statement " as joint owners you need to bust the existing joint liability paper first"
Will also reach out on RFD.
Thank you.

November 27, 2019
2:03 pm
Londonguy
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abduls16 said

Thanks for the details
Would you be able to elaborate on your statement " as joint owners you need to bust the existing joint liability paper first"
Will also reach out on RFD.
Thank you.  

You need to pay off and discharge the existing joint mortgage, just like TD told you

November 27, 2019
2:05 pm
abduls16
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Londonguy said

You need to pay off and discharge the existing joint mortgage, just like TD told you  

Sounds good. Thank you very much.

November 28, 2019
6:03 am
Bill
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A & B own property jointly, A is selling his interest to B, B will be new owner (or vice-versa), it's a real estate sale like any other, so the usual ramifications follow. Seems to me.

November 28, 2019
7:00 am
Norman1
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Can one wait?

If one waits until the end of the five-year term is reached, then there won't be a mortgage to break. One can just pay any outstanding balance, refinance, or even change lenders without penalty then. sf-smile

November 28, 2019
7:14 am
abduls16
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Bill said
A & B own property jointly, A is selling his interest to B, B will be new owner (or vice-versa), it's a real estate sale like any other, so the usual ramifications follow. Seems to me.  

well...we're not treating this as a real estate sale...as we're family so we're basically going off market value of our property and he'll do a re-finance and buy me out.

Norman1 said
Can one wait?

If one waits until the end of the five-year term is reached, then there won't be a mortgage to break. One can just pay any outstanding balance, refinance, or even change lenders without penalty then. sf-smile  

Unfortunately we can't wait as I'm currently buying my own place, closing in Feb 2020, and one of the conditions being put by my lender (RBC) is that my name should be off our current house. Even though I own it 50%, banks don't look @ it as a shared amount, they assume the full cost of the property (mortgage, property tax, bill) is all under my head.

Thank you.

November 28, 2019
7:27 am
Norman1
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abduls16 said

Unfortunately we can't wait as I'm currently buying my own place, closing in Feb 2020, and one of the conditions being put by my lender (RBC) is that my name should be off our current house. Even though I own it 50%, banks don't look @ it as a shared amount, they assume the full cost of the property (mortgage, property tax, bill) is all under my head.

It isn't the property ownership RBC is concerned about. It is the joint mortgage.

With many joint loans, the borrowers are "jointly and severally" liable for the debt. If the lender can't collect from one of the joint borrowers, then the lender has the option to collect the entirely from the other joint borrower.

November 28, 2019
9:01 am
abduls16
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Norman1 said

abduls16 said

Unfortunately we can't wait as I'm currently buying my own place, closing in Feb 2020, and one of the conditions being put by my lender (RBC) is that my name should be off our current house. Even though I own it 50%, banks don't look @ it as a shared amount, they assume the full cost of the property (mortgage, property tax, bill) is all under my head.

It isn't the property ownership RBC is concerned about. It is the joint mortgage.

With many joint loans, the borrowers are "jointly and severally" liable for the debt. If the lender can't collect from one of the joint borrowers, then the lender has the option to collect the entirely from the other joint borrower.  

Well, RBC informed me that my name needs to be off the title as it shows up as additional expenses such as property tax, bills and current 85K Mortgage. Hence the approval condition will be that my name is off the title before closing (Feb 2020) and in order to do so, we'll need to break the 85K mortgage and ensure that my brother qualify's fully on his name. Thanks everyone for your responses, will get a mortgage broker to see what rates my brother can qualify for this.

Thank you.

November 28, 2019
10:45 am
Bill
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Ownership is critical, I believe. I'm guessing legally you can't be a party to a mortgage contract if you're not on title to the property in question. (Otherwise I'm quite sure RBC would be happy to leave both on the mortgage, in case of default by owner they could still go after a previous owner, sweet!) That's why RBC is doing what it is doing. And whether or not the family views it as a sale and regardless of how they sort out the money part, if the provincial land registry system registers an ownership change (from A & B to just A) as of a certain day then by law that transaction is a sale. My understanding anyway.

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