Lower $100,000 limit on Advantage Account 3.25% (everybody)/3.35% (group benefits members) offer | Manulife Bank | Discussion forum

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Lower $100,000 limit on Advantage Account 3.25% (everybody)/3.35% (group benefits members) offer
June 18, 2019
6:37 am
Norman1
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Looks like Manulife Bank lowered the limit from $500,000 to $100,000 on their offers today.

From their Group Benefit members signup page:

* 3.35% promotional rate is for a new personal, non-registered, Canadian-dollar Advantage Account. The 3.35% promotional annual interest rate is made up of the regular posted annual variable interest rate of 1.50% and the variable annual promotional rate of 1.85%. The offer and rates are as of June 18, 2019 and subject to change without notice. Interest is calculated daily and paid monthly on net new deposits (funds not currently held in a Manulife Bank account) for the first 182 days after account opening to a maximum of $100,000. …

From their Advantage account page:

*3.25% promotional rate is for a new personal, non-registered, Canadian-dollar Advantage Account. The promotional interest rate is made up of the regular posted annual variable interest rate of 1.50% and the variable annual promotional rate of 1.75%. Interest is calculated daily and paid monthly on net new deposits for the first 182 days (6 months) after account opening to a maximum of $100,000. Any change to the regular interest rate will result in a corresponding change to the promotional interest rate. The offer is limited to one account per client and cannot be combined with other offers. The offer and rates are as of June 18, 2019 and subject to change without notice.

June 18, 2019
10:40 am
Loonie
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Good catch, Norman.
This does not suggest a deposit limit, but rather a limit to how much of that deposit will attract the promo rate.
This contrasts with DUCA's decision to put a limit on deposits for their 3% offer and grandfather those who'd already exceeded it.

I try as best I can to limit the number of FIs that I deal with and to eliminate those with the worst ethics because they need so much extra monitoring and create anxiety.
With sneaky decisions like this, ManuLife does not recommend itself to me. I'm sticking with my earlier assessment of them, #14, https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/forum/manulife-bank/3-35-for-6-months-new-acounts-promotion-advantage-account/

June 18, 2019
11:24 am
AltaRed
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My view is Manulife has something going here with their 4 in 1 offering that will eat into both the big 5 and digital online banks.

June 18, 2019
11:45 am
GoJetsGo
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Manulife, please clarify if the $100,000 limit applies or not to accounts opened before June 18th? Your lawyers description of "The offer and rates are as of June 18, 2019 and subject to change without notice" does not convince me one way or another whether Manulife is capping all accounts or just those opened after June 18.

June 18, 2019
1:08 pm
Kidd
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To me this signifies... they are getting close to reaching their end goal.  Once their goal is met, the bonus offers will cease.

Please look at the web links below, they show debt to equity ratios

Tangerine is owned by the bank of nova scotia bank.  tangerine has recently made the offer of 2.75% on savings not because they like us, it's because they need CASH.  Watching these ratios may be a way to bargain with their reps. 

https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/Bns/fundamental/debt-equity-ratio-quarterly

Here's the royal bank of canada debt to equity ratio for a comparison

https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/RY/fundamental/debt-equity-ratio-quarterly

June 18, 2019
1:29 pm
AltaRed
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D/E ratios on banks are misleading. A bank could have a huge deposit base (liabilities) and a huge loan book (assets) that mirror each other, and way out of proportion with true long term debt (bonds) and equity (prefs + commons).

A typical loan/deposit ratio might be between 0.8-0.9 and that is the important item, along with net margin. To the extent the ratio is getting too low, banks will want to discourage more deposits, and if too high, attract deposits.

June 18, 2019
1:30 pm
Kidd
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https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/MFC/fundamental/debt-equity-ratio-quarterly

The debt to equity ratio chart for manulife (above) is looking better.

June 18, 2019
1:47 pm
canadian.100
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Loonie said
Good catch, Norman.
This does not suggest a deposit limit, but rather a limit to how much of that deposit will attract the promo rate.
This contrasts with DUCA's decision to put a limit on deposits for their 3% offer and grandfather those who'd already exceeded it.

I try as best I can to limit the number of FIs that I deal with and to eliminate those with the worst ethics because they need so much extra monitoring and create anxiety.
With sneaky decisions like this, ManuLife does not recommend itself to me. I'm sticking with my earlier assessment of them, #14, https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/forum/manulife-bank/3-35-for-6-months-new-acounts-promotion-advantage-account/  

Before you jump to a conclusion that Manulife is sneaky and unethical, Loonie - I phoned Manulife to find out the correct story - the agent confirmed that only new accounts opened June 18 and after are subject to the $100K limit eligible for receiving the bonus rate. Accounts opened prior to June 18 will get the bonus rate for balances of up to $500K. Balances over these amounts are permitted but don't get that bonus part over the 1.5% base interest.
So let's check facts before jumping to the wrong conclusion!

June 18, 2019
2:06 pm
Loonie
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I'm glad to hear your news, canadian 100, assuming it's correct, but this is not made clear in their online statements as quoted by Norman1, and therefore I wouldn't be able to trust it.
Do you see anything in writing that confirms that those who signed up earlier will still get what they expected? It's what's in writing that counts as several people have reported conflicting stories from CSRs on significant issues with this account in the other thread.
I found DUCA's position much more straightforward and reassuring.

June 18, 2019
2:31 pm
Kidd
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My dog has fleas.

June 19, 2019
5:59 am
savemoresaveoften
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Its not uncommon for FIs to rejig their funding requirement and promotion target as the program progresses. So i dont see Manulife being sleazy. Details are always in the fine print. If they change it for customers who already opened an account prior to Jun 18, then thats something else.
One can always choose to not trust anything, anyone. For example, my friend will not use online banking services at all....

June 19, 2019
6:06 am
krwilson
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EQ Bank did the same a few months after they started. I had signed up at the start at $500,000 limit but when I went to sign up my parents it had dropped to $100,000.

June 19, 2019
10:13 am
implode
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So if I were to take this offer, at most I can and will put in is $99700 and take out the interest amount monthly in order to take full advantage of this promo rate of 3.25%? Reading the other thread, it mentions that RFD people have been able to get the group rate of 3.35%, so I could attempt that too.

June 19, 2019
11:39 am
Nehpets
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savemoresaveoften said .....One can always choose to not trust anything, anyone. .... 

In which case one ends up with a waiter and a couple of cats as their circle of friends......(F. Reagan)

June 19, 2019
1:59 pm
Loonie
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Right. Banks are eminently trustworthy, never mislead anyone, and your money will always be there when you want it. How could I have missed this? It must be those annoying decades of experience kicking in again.
sf-laugh

June 19, 2019
3:34 pm
Doug
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AltaRed said
My view is Manulife has something going here with their 4 in 1 offering that will eat into both the big 5 and digital online banks.  

I'm more in line with AltaRed here. Manulife's new All-in Package needs some work to make it appeal more broadly, such as those that don't mind sticking a minimum balance in a GIC, HISA, or the like, to waive chequing account fees. And, they also need to offer online opening with both issuers, Manulife Bank and Manulife Trust. As far as their sneakiness, I wouldn't say they're any sneakier than any others (i.e., Tangerine) which have changed their promotional rates of interest downward in relation to a posted rate increase such that you don't benefit on the upside with interest rate rises. Their T&C allow this, so while $100,000 is a low limit, I can certainly see why. They likely exceeded their deposit raise targets already and don't want to impact their profitability.

For now, I'd rank Manulife Bank somewhere in the middle of the pack in terms of no-fee chequing (but ahead of Motus Bank) and in the bottom tier in terms of GICs. On promo rates, they're at the top.

Cheers,
Doug

June 20, 2019
7:52 am
hotmony
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500k before june 18 ur fine confirmed

June 20, 2019
10:21 am
Saver-Mom
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I got the 3.35% rate without being a group client, confirmed on phone by a CSR

June 25, 2019
7:42 am
dougjp
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GoJetsGo said
Manulife, please clarify if the $100,000 limit applies or not to accounts opened before June 18th? Your lawyers description of "The offer and rates are as of June 18, 2019 and subject to change without notice" does not convince me one way or another whether Manulife is capping all accounts or just those opened after June 18.  

Also waiting for a written confirmation, why is it taking so long to see this in writing anywhere? Even if earlier opened accounts can exceed 100k its my strong suspicion that their system won't pay promo interest over that, and then it will take hours waiting/talking/writing (based on experience) to fix it and get the interest. Prove me wrong.

June 25, 2019
9:11 am
Hubble
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Here is wording from Manulife Bank via secure email after I posed the question...If you wish something in writing....might be best to contact them directly.

"Thank you for your Manulife Bank inquiry. Because your account was opened prior to June 18th, your limit remains at $500,000.00. I'm sorry for any confusion this has caused. Your acct was opened May 14th and the promotion runs until November 13th.

If you have any further questions or require immediate information, please contact us at 1-877-765-2265. A Bank Service Representative will be available to serve you Monday to Friday from 8am to 8pm and on Saturday and Sunday from 9am to 5pm."

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