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Hubert RRIF Questions and Answers
April 24, 2019
5:06 pm
frugal lady
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I am a few years away from having to convert to RRIF but starting to figure things out for when the time comes. I had questions concerning Hubert's RRIF and they very promptly responded. Their customer service is fantastic. Thought I would post in case anyone else might find the information useful.

1. What options are available for minimum mandatory withdrawal?
A: The annual withdrawal can be however you would like, as long as the minimum payment is satisfied each year. You can take it monthly, semi monthly, quarterly, semi annually or annually.

2. Does the minimum withdrawal go into savings account (joint or individual if have)?
A: If you have a individual savings it will go in that, if you only have a joint savings it will go in there.

3. Where is the RRIF annual payment removed from if you have multiple GIC's and RRIF savings?
A: The payment will come from the term earning the lowest interest rate unless the funds are in a variable then it will come from there.

4. Can you take any extra payments from your RRIF (subject to withholding tax) at any time? Any maximum extra amount? Any Fee for doing so?
A: You can take a larger payment at anytime (subject to the withholding tax) there is no maximum amount that can be taken and there is no fee (other then the withholding tax)

5. Can you request a specified payment over and above the minimum on a regular basis?
A: Yes, although keep in mind that this will likely be considered your payment. (for example if your minimum payment is $50.00 monthly and you often request to have $100.00 over your payment amount, we will change your payment to be $150.00 with the extra $100 subject to withholding tax.)

6. Can you specifically request that a certain percentage (ie 10% or 20%) be withheld at source from the minimum payment?
A: Yes we can do that for you - you would have to send us an email or letter, and we could set it up to take off whatever percentage you would like for withholding tax from your minimum payment.

April 24, 2019
6:08 pm
Briguy
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Thanks for the info, they seem very accomodating !!
With regards to question number 4,
"4. Can you take any extra payments from your RRIF (subject to withholding tax) at any time? Any maximum extra amount? Any Fee for doing so?"

Would this apply to a GIC ? You didn't ask if this was for any kind of RRIF, they may only allow you to take out extra amounts for a savings account RRIF.

April 24, 2019
8:25 pm
Loonie
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I can confirm that that it has been easy to make additional withdrawals from Hubert RIF and RSP savings. I doubt you could do it with GICs but have never asked.

One limitation with Hubert's RIFs, however, is that they don't offer a one-year GIC of any kind. This is helpful if you are trying to make additional withdrawals but can't predict how much you will want to withdraw. You end up with a certain amount of "float". It would be more efficient if you could sock it away in a one year GIC until you see what your situation is the following year..
If you have a very predictable income or manage your GICs differently, then it won't be an issue for you.
I have raised this issue with Hubert but they are unwilling to change their policy. Consequently, my RIF funds are going elsewhere.

April 24, 2019
11:13 pm
Rick
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frugal lady said
I am a few years away from having to convert to RRIF but starting to figure things out for when the time comes. I had questions concerning Hubert's RRIF and they very promptly responded. Their customer service is fantastic. Thought I would post in case anyone else might find the information useful.

1. What options are available for minimum mandatory withdrawal?
A: The annual withdrawal can be however you would like, as long as the minimum payment is satisfied each year. You can take it monthly, semi monthly, quarterly, semi annually or annually.

2. Does the minimum withdrawal go into savings account (joint or individual if have)?
A: If you have a individual savings it will go in that, if you only have a joint savings it will go in there.

3. Where is the RRIF annual payment removed from if you have multiple GIC's and RRIF savings?
A: The payment will come from the term earning the lowest interest rate unless the funds are in a variable then it will come from there.

4. Can you take any extra payments from your RRIF (subject to withholding tax) at any time? Any maximum extra amount? Any Fee for doing so?
A: You can take a larger payment at anytime (subject to the withholding tax) there is no maximum amount that can be taken and there is no fee (other then the withholding tax)

5. Can you request a specified payment over and above the minimum on a regular basis?
A: Yes, although keep in mind that this will likely be considered your payment. (for example if your minimum payment is $50.00 monthly and you often request to have $100.00 over your payment amount, we will change your payment to be $150.00 with the extra $100 subject to withholding tax.)

6. Can you specifically request that a certain percentage (ie 10% or 20%) be withheld at source from the minimum payment?
A: Yes we can do that for you - you would have to send us an email or letter, and we could set it up to take off whatever percentage you would like for withholding tax from your minimum payment.  

Thanx for posting. Those are pretty much the reasons I chose them.

April 25, 2019
8:23 am
Doug
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Thanks for sharing these answers, frugal lady! sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 25, 2019
11:51 am
frugal lady
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Briguy said
Thanks for the info, they seem very accomodating !!
With regards to question number 4,
"4. Can you take any extra payments from your RRIF (subject to withholding tax) at any time? Any maximum extra amount? Any Fee for doing so?"

Would this apply to a GIC ? You didn't ask if this was for any kind of RRIF, they may only allow you to take out extra amounts for a savings account RRIF.  

I have made a further inquiry from Hubert.

A: "When requesting "additional" RIF funds we will deplete the funds from your RIF high interest savings account first & then out of the term(s) with the lowest interest rate."

The above applies also to the minimum annual payment.

April 25, 2019
1:49 pm
Briguy
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frugal lady said

I have made a further inquiry from Hubert.

A: "When requesting "additional" RIF funds we will deplete the funds from your RIF high interest savings account first & then out of the term(s) with the lowest interest rate."

The above applies also to the minimum annual payment.  

Thanks for checking into this for us !!! Hubert sounds incredibly accomadating.

@Loonie - you should stay with Hubert !!!

April 25, 2019
2:13 pm
Doug
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Briguy said

Thanks for checking into this for us !!! Hubert sounds incredibly accomadating.

@Loonie - you should stay with Hubert !!!  

Loonie will stay with Hubert, but just for his non-registered and/or TFSA GIC and HISA funds, from the sounds of it. sf-cool

I'm curious as to why Loonie would open up new accounts with Motus Bank, though, since the GIC rates, while currently, are slightly higher than the Manitoba CUs, there's no certainty that will persist.

Cheers,
Doug

April 25, 2019
3:46 pm
Briguy
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Doug said

Loonie will stay with Hubert, but just for his non-registered and/or TFSA GIC and HISA funds, from the sounds of it. sf-cool

I'm curious as to why Loonie would open up new accounts with Motus Bank, though, since the GIC rates, while currently, are slightly higher than the Manitoba CUs, there's no certainty that will persist.

Cheers,
Doug  

@Loonie
I'm not sure why either, since Motus Bank has no physical presence, so you can't march in to a Meridian bank with a will and death certificate. I guess he prefers Motus because they have a 1 yr RRIF GIC. Hubert has emailed another member and stated you can increase your withdrawals at any time. So I don't see that as being an issue, since if Loonie has a 5 yr RRIF GIC and needs money, they will allow more to be taken out.

April 25, 2019
4:09 pm
Doug
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Briguy said
@Loonie
I'm not sure why either, since Motus Bank has no physical presence, so you can't march in to a Meridian bank with a will and death certificate. I guess he prefers Motus because they have a 1 yr RRIF GIC. Hubert has emailed another member and stated you can increase your withdrawals at any time. So I don't see that as being an issue, since if Loonie has a 5 yr RRIF GIC and needs money, they will allow more to be taken out.  

Yeah, and I think it's potentially worrying about whether the hoops the executrix may have to jump through if the Manitoba CU requires his will to be separately probated by a Manitoba court? That said, he's maintaining his Hubert accounts/GICs for his non-registered and/or TFSA accounts, so wouldn't eliminate that risk so not sure why not wanting a separate Manitoba CU for his RRIFs (instead of Motus). As I predicted, though, Motus is offering better rates than Meridian CU rates, which may ruffle a few Meridian members' feathers (including Loonie's).

But you're right...Motus is completely separate and, because it's a subsidiary, the Meridian staff won't likely be able to even look up your Motus accounts like, say, CWB staff who might be able to look up your Motive accounts but just not perform any transactions (that's how it was at HSBC when HSBC had HSBC Direct; we could look up HSBC Direct accounts, update their information, and the like, but not perform transactions to/from those accounts).

Cheers,
Doug

April 25, 2019
5:22 pm
Loonie
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Doug said

I'm curious as to why Loonie would open up new accounts with Motus Bank, though, since the GIC rates, while currently, are slightly higher than the Manitoba CUs, there's no certainty that will persist.

Cheers,
Doug  

There's no certainty anything will persist.
Motus offers what I need right now for this RIF money. Their 18 month will do perfectly for the bulk of this money, at 3.1%. I hope it doesn't change in the next week or so, but might go with them even if it does. They claim this is not a promo rate; we'll sse.

There really isn't that much to choose from outside of MB. A number of the FIs we deal with here do not even offer RIFs. Some offer lower rates for RIFs than other GICs. At least one does not offer RIF savings account.
My hunch is that motus will be competitive over the longer haul. I'm going to give them a chance anyway.

I have no expectation of dealing with them through a Meridian branch or any kind of branch. However, wills and estates are provincial matters. Motus HQ are in Ontario. I live in Ontario. Therefore I feel assured that my intentions can be easily dealt with under Ontario law, and this gives me peace of mind.
In the time between now and whenever I die or become incompetent, laws could change in MB that could create new problems, and neither In or my POA/exec might be aware of them. Having as many different FIs as I do, I hope to minimize any out-of-province issues.

I am doubtful that Hubert would really allow unrestricted withdrawals from RIF GICs. It doesn't make any financial sense for them to do so.

For now, I am keeping non-registered funds with Hubert. It's very handy, having the unlimited insurance, but I am always looking for other options. If I could get by without Hubert, much as I like them, I would do so. I use them primarily for the flexible one year GICs, so could get out if in poor health. If Motus works out, I will move more money there.

As I think I said before, nobody needs to necessarily do what I am doing. It works for me. I think I can say in hindsight that RIFs are more difficult to manage than I anticipated. What looked easy turns out to be more complicated when all is said and done, at least in my case, in order to get what I want. By the time you guys reach this stage, the players will no doubt have moved again.

April 25, 2019
6:30 pm
Doug
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Thanks, Loonie, for your explanations. I hope I didn't seem too pushy in my suggestions. sf-cool

You're right in that your needs are unique and may not work for anyone else.

In sum, bottom line, which I think I more or less summarized correctly, you're looking for simplicity for executor(trix) and potentially worried about having to have your will probated by two different provincial courts, right?

Cheers,
Doug

April 25, 2019
8:28 pm
Loonie
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No problem, Doug.

You have it more or less right. I don't want to make things difficult for anyone looking after my affairs. I don't anticipate having two probates, but neither do I want to run the risk of any legislative changes. Consider how much has changed in the financial industry and its regulation in the last 10 or 20 years...

April 26, 2019
8:22 am
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Hi, my first post.

Hubert is so easy to do a RRIF withdrawal from the RRIF savings account. Very effortless.

As far as the “no one year” GIC I understand why they don’t let you have one in a RRIF.

My work arounds are:
1. Leave cash in savings. Their savings rate is better than a big 5 GIC rate.
2. Do a ladder of 2 3 4 5 year GICs for the amount you plan to withdraw. I plan to ask them to use those GICs first. Or likely they will be matured into the RRIF savings account.

My amounts are not large enough to worry about a one year GIC rate vs the savings account rate.

I plan to do point 2 similarly at Oaken too and will use the free transfer, if needed, to Hubert to do my own planned extra funds withdrawals.

Will be interesting:
What will happen at Hubert with a 1 year RRSP GIC when I “have to” move funds from RRSP to RRIF.
What will happen at Oaken, with no RRIF “savings account”, when the mandatory withdrawal leaves me with less than $1000 from the GIC that the funds came from.

April 26, 2019
8:58 am
Doug
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GICinvestor said
As far as the “no one year” GIC I understand why they don’t let you have one in a RRIF.

What's that reason? Loonie and I can't really see why they wouldn't offer a 1-year RRIF GIC of some type, even a normal, non-redeemable 1-year RRIF GIC. Please enlighten us. sf-cool

My work arounds are:
1. Leave cash in savings. Their savings rate is better than a big 5 GIC rate.
2. Do a ladder of 2 3 4 5 year GICs for the amount you plan to withdraw. I plan to ask them to use those GICs first. Or likely they will be matured into the RRIF savings account.

Yes, those are reasonable workarounds. To add to that, you could also use a combination of those two or, if your interest paid is large enough to equate the minimum RRIF withdrawal, just withdraw your annually paid interest once a year.

The key, though, and I agree with Loonie on this, why should these workarounds be necessary when literally every one of their competitors offer a 1-year RRIF GIC?

My amounts are not large enough to worry about a one year GIC rate vs the savings account rate.

Agreed, it does matter on how much you're looking to put into a 1-year GIC. If Loonie was looking to put $1,000,000 or more into a one year GIC, then yeah 0.25% or even less is significant enough. However, if it was only $100,000 or less, then yeah, not sure why he doesn't just put it in a RRIF savings account, though I'd note that Implicity's, Achieva's, Outlook's, and MAXA's savings account rates are all higher. (Motus' HISA rate is lower.)

Cheers,
Doug

April 26, 2019
9:14 am
GICinvestor
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Yes, those are reasonable workarounds. To add to that, you could also use a combination of those two or, if your interest paid is large enough to equate the minimum RRIF withdrawal, just withdraw your annually paid interest once a year.

Good point, I need to review that idea. It is workable for me. Will look at interest to be paid annually to savings account and then withdraw. Great idea...thanks.

The key, though, and I agree with Loonie on this, why should these workarounds be necessary when literally every one of their competitors offer a 1-year RRIF GIC?

I don’t know. My guess is, it would be confusing to users or programmers to set up two types of one year GICs that are account type specific? To be a hold out on no work arounds I kind of agree and in some cases I can be a hold outer too! But who has the best rates and best withdrawal options along with a self serve system and how many places do you want to hold RRSP RRIF at? It’s a cruel world......so in this case I retreat to do a work around.

But not many other places offer a quarterly type of a one year GIC. Maybe Oaken? So it is not comparable? Never the less that is what Hubert has chosen to do. Maybe one day they will see the light. Just like what I see here about Oaken with no savings accounts for registered funds.

April 26, 2019
3:21 pm
Loonie
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Personally, I'm not interested in workarounds. Life is complicated enough!
I don't think Oaken offers RIF terms less than a year. Their rates page has changed though, and I find it confusing.
I don't really think terms les than a year make sense for RIFs due to the complications in calculating the mandatory withdrawal.

April 26, 2019
3:50 pm
Briguy
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Loonie said
Personally, I'm not interested in workarounds. Life is complicated enough!
I don't think Oaken offers RIF terms less than a year. Their rates page has changed though, and I find it confusing.
I don't really think terms les than a year make sense for RIFs due to the complications in calculating the mandatory withdrawal.  

I still have this feeling that Oaken is much less likely to cash a GIC than other FIs, whether it be in a non registered or registered account. (I went into CIBC a week ago for my mother, and was told that I could get a non cashable GIC and cash it anytime as long as I was prepared to lose interest, no hardship required. )So if you have a 5 yr GIC in your RRIF and you want to increase withdrawals they probably wouldn't let you. That makes Oaken less desirable to me than other FIs for RRIFs, especially compared to Hubert which has said they will increase withdrawals from GICs at any time during its term.

April 26, 2019
4:04 pm
Doug
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Briguy said

I still have this feeling that Oaken is much less likely to cash a GIC than other FIs, whether it be in a non registered or registered account. (I went into CIBC a week ago for my mother, and was told that I could get a non cashable GIC and cash it anytime as long as I was prepared to lose interest, no hardship required. )So if you have a 5 yr GIC in your RRIF and you want to increase withdrawals they probably wouldn't let you. That makes Oaken less desirable to me than other FIs for RRIFs, especially compared to Hubert which has said they will increase withdrawals from GICs at any time during its term.  

You should not be putting money into a GIC that you may need to cash in before maturity.

Banks are under no obligation to early redeem non-redeemable GICs, but often will. Whether Oaken will or not, I'm not going to speculate. Nevertheless, even if a bank will early redeem a GIC, you forfeit all that GIC interest that was accrued. Wouldn't it have been better to stick it in a savings account, at a slightly lower rate, and have kept all that interest?

That's why I'd recommend holding a balance of demand and fixed term deposits, keeping enough liquid that you may need to access. And, with the inverted GoC yield curve and no sign of that reversing, I'd recommend going no longer than 3 years in your GIC ladders. Keep your maturities short. There's not much premium for adding an extra 2-3 years. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

April 26, 2019
4:13 pm
Briguy
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Doug said

You should not be putting money into a GIC that you may need to cash in before maturity.

Banks are under no obligation to early redeem non-redeemable GICs, but often will. Whether Oaken will or not, I'm not going to speculate. Nevertheless, even if a bank will early redeem a GIC, you forfeit all that GIC interest that was accrued. Wouldn't it have been better to stick it in a savings account, at a slightly lower rate, and have kept all that interest?

That's why I'd recommend holding a balance of demand and fixed term deposits, keeping enough liquid that you may need to access. And, with the inverted GoC yield curve and no sign of that reversing, I'd recommend going no longer than 3 years in your GIC ladders. Keep your maturities short. There's not much premium for adding an extra 2-3 years. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug  

You might even want to cash it in to get a better rate somewhere else if it's only a month after you bought the GIC.

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