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what do you think about these companies
April 21, 2017
1:18 pm
gs
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I have never participated in a chat room or forum. Always a "lurker". I also am new to using Credit Unions for investing. I have found this site MOST informative and hope to add to my knowledge, if you all would be so kind.
What are your thoughts on safety for these Credit unions, trusts, banks.
Accelerate (much positive has been said)
Luminus
Canadian Tire
Rosenort
Street capitol
Talka (* most importantly as they offer the highest rates that I have found)
I think from my list you can see I am chasing interest rates.
I also will not bank on the internet so that lets out some financial institutions such as Hubert even though their rates are tempting.
I will be using some on this list and/or others you may suggest to deposit sums a bit higher that $100,000.00 - $250,000.00.
I really would appreciate some input as I am a bit nervous getting out of the big 5 banks. I must because their rates really are pathetic.

April 21, 2017
2:18 pm
Bill
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gs, I've a question for you: google says there are over 600 credit unions/caisse populaires in Canada - how did you find the ones (like Talka and Rosenort) that offer the best rates!? Seems like on this site we're usually discussing only the same handful of them.

April 21, 2017
2:26 pm
gs
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Bill I have been really digging now for a few weeks. I used lists of all credit unions in BC, Alta, Sask, Man and Ont. also all FI's covered by insce. I have come up with these as sort of my finals barring some safety problem. That is why I have come to this site for help. Oh and I first heard of Rosenort from this site.

April 22, 2017
1:44 am
Loonie
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Yes, Rosenort was mentioned a long time ago, but only once as I recall. At the time, I couldn't see how you could join it without going to whichever province it is in, i think MB.

We must have gotten lazy, gs. I think you've done some great research, but have no experience with these institutions.

The things you have to look for, at least in the first instance, are whether they are "open bond" credit unions, which means you don't have to belong to a particular ethnic or other group in order to belong; and whether they can enrol members who live in other provinces than the one they are in. Those things will tell you if you qualify to join.

Talka site says "Rates shown are subject to change without notice. For the most up-to-date rates please contact the Credit Union."

April 22, 2017
8:00 am
Norman1
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Rosenort Credit Union is open to all Canadians. This is from Become a Member:

Membership Eligibility

Rosenort Credit Union extends membership throughout Canada. At Rosenort Credit Union we pride ourselves in helping people help themselves by offering quality financial services for the benefit of all members.

> Contact us today to apply for a membership

Not clear what the membership requirements are from their web site. Would there be some kind of minimum monthly share purchase requirement?

Someone in 2013 looked into it and found that it was a manual process to become a member:

James said (September 2013)

Rosenort does not require you to visit in person to set up an account, but they don't have an online option either. They will allow you to send documents via email and regular post (they need certified copies of various ID). For me, that's too much hassle but for those interested, tell them what province you are located in and they will help you through the process.

Their High Yield Savings account looks interesting:

High Yield Savings (Personal)
    $0 to $100,000
    $100,000 to $250,000
    $250,000 and up
2.00%
2.10%
2.20%

But, one would have to take some care about the timing of the deposits and withdrawals. The account is not a daily interest account:

High Yield Savings

This savings product is designed as a tiered savings to allow your interest to grow even faster as your savings balance grows.

> Interest is calculated on the minimum monthly balance and is paid out annually.
> The first withdrawal each month is free. Subsequent withdrawals are subject to a service charge.

I didn't see any mention of linked external accounts or something like Me-to-Me transfers.

April 22, 2017
8:00 am
gs
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Loonie, I phoned each of the FI's that I mentioned among others. The list above follows all the criteria you mention. They are "open bond" and will accept Ontario residents. (all things posted to know on this forum....thanx) You do not have to go to their office to open, other than Talka. Talka's rates are still as posted. Since Talka is in Hamilton Ontario that isn't too much of a trip and it is only the one time joining their credit union. After that all is okay either by mail or phone (as I said I am averse to computer banking) My issue is, since I wanted to invest more than the insured amount in Ontario, I wanted some input as to safety of these companies. I know that Manitoba's FI's have unlimited insurance but Ontario does not. 100,000, 250,000 depending on when I invest, at least I don't think Ontario has grandfathered it's new limit. Seems I have found some FI's that this site does not know about but perhaps someone has a "magical" website that can shed some light in these institutions. It is all very well and good to have found higher interest but not if the FI is shaky.

April 22, 2017
8:08 am
gs
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Norman 1, when I spoke to Rosenort they gave me outstanding rates for term deposits by today's standards 1yr 2.25, 2yr 2.25, 3yr 2.3, 4yr 2.4, 5yr 2.45. I am not as interested in their savings acct., but yes they offer good rates there as well.

April 22, 2017
10:21 am
Top It Up
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One of the things I dislike about Rosenort is they calculate interest on the minimum monthly balance and pay annually on their high-interest savings accounts (they are not the only credit union that does that).

However, they are one of only a few storefronts to offer those lofty interest rates on savings accounts (if their website is up-to-date?).

April 22, 2017
10:54 am
SavingIsGood
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No matter high interest, I would stick with well know and on-line banking capable CUs. This, for few hundreds more I will not switch from Hubert. On a 1 Million I might lose few grands on a yearly basis but those few grands are enough to me to jump into higher tax bracket.
Hubert offers reliable on-line banking, reliable chat support and good rates. As for the initial question am I confident with CUs, yes I am very confident and do not keep my $ in big banks with limited insurance of only 100K. I am with Manitoba's CUs more than 15 years and I sleep peacefully every single night.

April 22, 2017
11:30 am
Norman1
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Top It Up said
One of the things I dislike about Rosenort is they calculate interest on the minimum monthly balance and pay annually on their high-interest savings accounts (they are not the only credit union that does that).

Used to be a common trick to catch members who are unaware. The CS Co-op (now Alterna Savings) used to send a member's payroll deposits to such a minimum-monthly-balance savings account by default.

A member could open a daily interest savings account and direct his/her payroll deposits to that instead. But, I don't think everyone took the time to do so.

April 22, 2017
11:45 am
Norman1
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gs said
…. Seems I have found some FI's that this site does not know about but perhaps someone has a "magical" website that can shed some light in these institutions. It is all very well and good to have found higher interest but not if the FI is shaky.

Can't really do a proper evaluation without having detailed access to their loan books.

Credit rating agencies, like DBRS and Fitch, are given such access as part of the process of getting a rating. Many smaller financial institutions don't go through the process of getting a rating. Might be too expensive for some. I suspect many others know they won't qualify for an investment grade rating, BBB or better. No point spending all that money if one will get a junk bond rating of BB.

The small regional credit unions are quite vulnerable to adversity because of their lack of diversification. Think about what an Albertan oil & gas workers credit union would be going the last few years. Laid off members drawing down their deposits. On the loans side, laid off members having difficulties servicing their loans.

April 22, 2017
12:07 pm
gs
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DICO is insuring for 250,000 in Jan of 2018, I wonder if term deposits before that date are covered for 250,000. It might be a dumb question but I try not to take anything for granted.
I also was told that if you use a financial advisor at a FI you are covered for 1,000,000.00 trouble is you receive financial advisor rates. 🙁
Top It Up, I'm just interested in GIC's or term deposits but thanks for the savings information. I will keep that in mind to ask with all FI's
SavingIsGood, I don't want to bank over the internet, so Hubert is out for me, I talked to them and absolutely only internet. I liked their rates though

April 22, 2017
12:43 pm
Top It Up
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gs said

I don't want to bank over the internet, so Hubert is out for me, I talked to them and absolutely only internet.  

I'm confused ... you live in Ontario and you don't want internet banking ... so ALL Manitoba credit unions are off your wish list because you would have to do online banking with them.

I guess I don't understand your difference between internet banking and online banking?

April 22, 2017
12:47 pm
Norman1
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gs said
…I also was told that if you use a financial advisor at a FI you are covered for 1,000,000.00 trouble is you receive financial advisor rates. 🙁

That sounds like the $1 million CIPF coverage for brokerage accounts.

CIPF coverage covers shortfall in the assets, not shortfall in the value of the assets. If the firm goes under and they can't find that $200,000 GIC certificate in your account, then CIPF kicks in. It won't replace the $200,000. It will replace the $200,000 GIC certificate. They probably will report the certificate as lost, pay for the surety bond fee, and the GIC issuer will provide a replacement certificate.

If you had bought $100,000 of Nortel shares at $100 a pop and the broker goes under, you won't a cheque for $100,000. sf-frown You'll get your 1,000 shares of Nortel.

April 22, 2017
1:24 pm
gs
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Top It Up, the CU"s on my list do not demand internet, online, (internet and online are the same in my mind) even the ones in Manitoba. I can phone, direct transfer bank to CU, or mail all transactions. I have to join but am told by all that I can use mail to do that.
Norman1, I don't know if it is CIPF but the cost of doing business (lower rates) makes it unlikely that I will be using "advisors" so haven't done any homework on that. It is worth knowing though, never know if I will change my mind. Doesn't it aggravate you when people just tell you half the story. If you don't know what to ask the industry certainly doesn't want to enlighten you

April 22, 2017
1:27 pm
gs
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Norman1 i will check out the Credit rating agencies, like DBRS and Fitch tomorrow
see if I can learn anything, thanks for the lead

April 22, 2017
11:23 pm
Loonie
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I would agree with Norman that the 1 million insurance is almost certainly insurance on the brokerage, not on deposits in banks or CUs. If it were anything else, I think we would have heard about it as there has been a lot of discussion here about deposit insurance. Also, a broker wants your business and is essentially a salesperson. I wouldn't go with any broker who wasn't clear and forthcoming on what was being covered. Always good to ask to see the terms of the insurance. That would shock most brokers who, I am sure, are almost never asked.
Sounds like you were talking to an "advisor" and not an "adviser". We recently learned that such details really matter.

It's a good question as to whether the new limits will cover old deposits. My understanding is that they will.
Here is what the legislation says:

(re: Section) "104. For the purposes of subsection 271 (3) of the Act, the prescribed amount is $100,000. O. Reg. 237/09, s. 104.

Note: On the later of the day Schedule 5 to the Building Ontario Up for Everyone Act (Budget Measures), 2016 comes into force and January 1, 2018, section 104 of the Regulation is revoked and the following substituted: (See: O. Reg. 68/17, s. 31)

Deposit insurance amount

104. For the purposes of paragraph 2 of subsection 270 (2) of the Act and subsection 271 (3) of the Act, the Corporation shall,

(a) for an insurable deposit under paragraphs 1 to 6 of subsection 103 (2) of this Regulation, not insure the amount of the insurable deposit that exceeds $250,000;

(b) for an insurable deposit under paragraphs 7 to 16 of subsection 103 (2) of this Regulation, insure the full amount of the insurable deposit. O. Reg. 68/17, s. 31.

(Revisions in italics.)
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/090237?search=68%2F17#BK150

To my mind, and I am not a lawyer, once something is "revoked", it no longer exists, is not on the books. Only what is then current is on the books.

I suppose you could ask DICO or the Attorney-General's office or your MPP for their understanding. The people who drafted these regs must know what was meant.

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