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Q: Are We 'Sleepwalking' Into A Cashless Society ?
June 30, 2024
6:30 pm
Dean
Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia
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.
CBC News article today https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-sleepwalking-into-cashless-society-consumer-advocates-warn-1.7248846

Personally, I hardly use the stuff anymore ... but I don't want it to completely disappear !

What say you ?

    Dean

sf-cool " Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! " sf-cool

June 30, 2024
6:33 pm
AltaRed
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There is a bit of 'crying wolf' in that article. I don't think cash will disappear but the fear seems to be that eventually some merchants/vendors won't handle cash any more. That is perfectly logical in some situations and has been the case for many services and certainly contractors. I think the fear is misplaced.

June 30, 2024
8:05 pm
Norman1
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Nonsense: We are not sleepwalking into a cashless society. We are walking into one, fully awake.

Why be so irrational paying with cash, when there is a ½% to 3% reward or rebate paying with a credit card or a prepaid card?

Kind of like bricks-and-mortar bank branches. Everyone would like them to be there. But, few actual set foot in one in months or years.

July 1, 2024
3:14 am
mordko
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Norman1 said
Nonsense: We are not sleepwalking into a cashless society. We are walking into one, fully awake.

Why be so irrational paying with cash, when there is a ½% to 3% reward or rebate paying with a credit card or a prepaid card?

Kind of like bricks-and-mortar bank branches. Everyone would like them to be there. But, few actual set foot in one in months or years.  

Missing the point.

No issue if you want to be “awake” and pay without cash. The article deals with the concern that people who are just as awake won’t be able to pay with cash because a vendor won’t give them an option to do so.

While use of cash roughly halved this century, it is still substantial at 21.4% in 2022. Actually growing since 2020.

https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/sdp2024-1.pdf

While you and I prefer to pay with credit cards, not everyone has access.

The other problem is that middle class families no longer deal with day to day payments in a manner which teaches kids the value of money as cc bills come off automagically and income keeps dripping into accounts . Money isn’t even discussed. That leads to bad spending habits when the kids grow up. In Friends Rachel is forced to tear up her cards. For a good reason.

Nothing like the actual $100 bill in the pocket, and having to decide which goodies to spend it on to educate a kid about the value of money.

96% of small and medium merchants accept cash, and all large retailers do, so the article might be exaggerating the scale of the threat https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/sdp2024-2.pdf

July 1, 2024
4:33 am
Jimmy
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Some of the businesses offer a
'cash discount' which greatly exceeds any 'rewards' from using a credit card. Recently I had to pick up some electrical supplies and the clerk specified 'cash ' for payment to avoid the merchant fee.

July 1, 2024
7:17 am
CAD
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Jimmy said
Some of the businesses offer a
'cash discount' which greatly exceeds any 'rewards' from using a credit card. Recently I had to pick up some electrical supplies and the clerk specified 'cash ' for payment to avoid the merchant fee.  

NOT merchant fee but tax on income. WHY do you think all those roofers, plumbers, driveway sealers, etc. ask for cash? They just do NOT report that job as income and do not pay income tax.

July 1, 2024
7:24 am
mordko
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CAD said

NOT merchant fee but tax on income. WHY do you think all those roofers, plumbers, driveway sealers, etc. ask for cash? They just do NOT report that job as income and do not pay income tax.  

Unlikely to be the case for supplies. Unless it fell of the truck, but that’s theft.

July 1, 2024
7:37 am
Alexandre
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We are definitely moving into a cashless society, the question is not if, but when.

Younger generation prefers not to carry the wallet. Everyone else is already familiar with credit/debit cards. Specific groups of holdouts will have to adapt.

The government could make stupid decision to force each merchant accept cash they want it or not, but this will only delay the inevitable.
Imagine the government forces telecoms to keep in 2024 all payphones they had in 1999 and keep them coin-operated only, will people start using them again?

I haven't been paying with cash since the start of pandemics, because I didn't need to.
I am not going to take hundreds of dollars cash with me to pay for groceries, that is inconvenient. Also, I don't want to get counterfeit bill or coin in change.
Same goes for any other store. Paying with credit/debit is faster and I don't need to check the change.

Nothing like the actual $100 bill in the pocket, and having to decide which goodies to spend it on to educate a kid about the value of money

Sure, but it is even better to give kid $1 or $25 banknote, that'll teach them how the government can invalidate paper money any time it wants to.
$100 bill can do teaching, too: not every merchant accepts it, and where they do you might need to wait till they get manager to approve.

For most of families, outside of few very specific groups, it would actually be better to find FI that offers debit card for kids, to teach kids value of money in the modern world. Like this from RBC: RBC Leo's Young Savers Account

July 1, 2024
8:07 am
Lodown
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Norman1 said

Why be so irrational paying with cash, when there is a ½% to 3% reward or rebate paying with a credit card or a prepaid card?  

There is no reward. Using your credit card only gives you back some of the price increase the merchant has tacked on to the cost of their products caused by the advent of credit cards. Anyone who uses cash is overpaying.

July 1, 2024
10:05 am
RetirEd
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I want my pennies back.

RetirEd

July 1, 2024
10:24 am
Dean
Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia
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.
I was waiting for that ... thanks, RetirEd ... LOL sf-laugh

As for me, you can keep them.

I was glad to see them go.

Next will be the Nickel ?

    Dean

sf-cool " Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! " sf-cool

July 1, 2024
12:03 pm
savemoresaveoften
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Lodown said

There is no reward. Using your credit card only gives you back some of the price increase the merchant has tacked on to the cost of their products caused by the advent of credit cards. Anyone who uses cash is overpaying.  

compare to paying in cash, it is a reward.

And for those small restaurants / contractors and the like that offer 5% of 10% off when pay in cash, there is only 1 reason why they are doing it....

July 1, 2024
12:14 pm
AltaRed
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Dean said
Next will be the Nickel ?

    Dean

  

That is a natural evolution. The only question is when.

It has been over 11 years since distribution of the penny stopped. CPI has gone from 123 to 161 (increase of 31% since Feb 2013) over that period. 5 cents purchasing power now in the order of 3.5 cents.

July 1, 2024
12:35 pm
Alexandre
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RetirEd said
I want my pennies back.  

That reminded me of another reason for going cashless. As an example, right now at Wal-Mart near me Natrel Fine-filtered 2% Milk, 1 L goes for $3.58.

I pay with credit/debit card, they charge me $3.58.
You pay with cash, they charge you $3.60 (rounded up).

July 1, 2024
5:20 pm
MarkFog
Toronto
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I see a lot of answers here that say it makes a lot of sense for them to use cashless because of their cashback rates and rewards. Yes, it all sounds very good and appealing.

But, are we always expecting the system to be up and running all the time 24/7? What happens in power outages? In 2003 we saw a massive power outage that affected most places of the eastern part of North America for several days. In 2013 an ice storm hammered the GTA and five days without power. Think it won't happen again? How would you pay for your items in an emergency if the systems are down.

Another thing to consider is that cashless purchases are all tractable. How about privacy? What happens if a social credit score system is implemented and there are restrictions placed on your finances? I recall a Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy movie (Trading Places) where Dan Aykroyd's finances were frozen and he could not withdraw anything from cc to banks accounts all in a span of a day.

As a society we really do have to weight on the advantages and disadvantages of a cashless system because once we go that route, there is no turning back.

July 1, 2024
5:46 pm
HermanH
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MarkFog said
I recall a Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy movie (Trading Places) where Dan Aykroyd's finances were frozen and he could not withdraw anything from cc to banks accounts all in a span of a day.

No need for fictionalized accounts. Some donors to the Freedom convoys found their bank accounts frozen, too.

July 1, 2024
5:51 pm
Bill
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If power's out and everything's down I think no-one will take your cash anyway, they can't record the sale or open the cash register to make change if systems down, everybody probably would just close their doors if it happens now.

Got some high rollers on this site, I just found out how to save up to 2 cents by using a card instead of cash, beauty!

July 1, 2024
5:54 pm
HermanH
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Bill said
If power's out and everything's down I think no-one will take your cash anyway, they can't record the sale or open the cash register to make change if systems down, everybody probably would just close their doors if it happens now.

Not necessarily. Cash registers have a backup manual release. (At least, they used to have one.) sf-smile

July 1, 2024
6:27 pm
MarkFog
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HermanH said

MarkFog said
I recall a Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy movie (Trading Places) where Dan Aykroyd's finances were frozen and he could not withdraw anything from cc to banks accounts all in a span of a day.

No need for fictionalized accounts. Some donors to the Freedom convoys found their bank accounts frozen, too.  

You realize Hollywood movies are disclosure in themselves right? sf-laugh

Yes, the convoy IS a good example sf-cool

July 1, 2024
6:31 pm
MarkFog
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Bill said
If power's out and everything's down I think no-one will take your cash anyway,

Right, and if I had gas to sell you during a power outage I am going to give yousf-cool credit right?

Society could barter with others. There are communities in Greece that opted to use their own currency at a local level to get away from using the euro.

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