Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Email this6:03 pm
June 22, 2020
Offline
Yaftica said
Forgery of that document would constitute a fraud of course. The police service where the incident occurred (where you did the business) would be where you’d begin reporting your crime or starting the process with the Major Crimes Bureau.There seems to be indications this is cross jurisdictional involving multiple parties probably doing their own thing with this quick commission type of scam so I suspect this will involve law enforcement at some point unless parties who have been victimized are provided with reasons to not involve the police with a complaint process.
But the lawyers are preparing a response for all scenarios coming so if this is your blatant evidence to the fact then the decision is yours. Whether you go now or 3 months from now isn’t going to matter to investigators.
If you are going to file a Police report, you must report it in the jurisdiction where the event occurred. So for example, if you signed the papers in the Mississauga office, you would file with Peel Regional Police even if you reside somewhere else.
If this occurred in Mississauga, here is the link to file a report with Peel Regional Police. In the event that the link doesn't work, just copy and paste it.
https://www.peelpolice.ca/en/report-it/make-a-report-online.aspx#
7:16 am
June 22, 2020
Offline
Bill said
Investor1, a court (not "we") will decide responsibility. Aggrieved investors need to decide if they're going to sue everybody in sight or be more focused, guess their lawyers will guide them. There may be other lawsuits among LBS, PCU, etc but investors need to decide who in particular they think wronged them. Or else hope that PCU will make good due to regulatory action or as a pr move.
It is quite possible that there would be lawsuits among LBS and PCU because according to the Globe and Mail article, PSC’s arrangement with LBS allowed up to 4x leverage and PSC never reached that level so why did LBS decide to make a margin call when PSC was still within the limit?
We clearly need more information about the terms of the agreement with LBS, but if PSC was operating within the established limits of their contract and LBS violated the terms of this contract then a liability certainly arises in this area which I’m sure PCU is looking into with their new legal counsel from Fasken.
10:21 am
May 15, 2020
Offline
Page 4 paragraph E here explains the CU's ownership facets in these respects clearly:
(e) The Credit Union holds 100% of the issued and outstanding common shares of PSC, and PSC has no other shareholders; PSC holds 100% of the of the issued and outstanding common shares of PIB and PGPL, and neither PIB nor PGPL have other shareholders; and PGPL holds 100% of the of the issued and outstanding common shares of PFL, which has issued Series A Preference Shares to various investors, many of whom are members of the Credit Union;
(f) The Administrator and the New Directors have determined that PSC and its direct and indirect subsidiaries are not a core part of the Credit Union's business and have been working to determine how PSC and its direct and indirect subsidiaries are to be dealt with as part of the on-going efforts to regularize the Credit Union's operations to return it to member-controlled governance.
When these discussions were going on last fall it would have been very useful information for the clients to be made aware of unless there were other circumstances which existed that precluded us from knowing what was going on behind closed doors.
That entire doc is an interesting read actually.
B. Margin Accounts with LBS
52. PSC operates its own margin account with LBS in which it carries out proprietary trading. PSC’s margin account had a cash balance of approximately $337,000 as of May 11, 2020, meaning that it had repaid its margin loan and presently has surplus cash with LBS. Due to an unremedied margin call by LBS regarding the account of one of PSC’s customers, LBS has prevented PSC from accessing its cash.
10:41 am
May 15, 2020
Offline
Protecting the Credit Union Branding was always at the forefront, the clients who were being decimated don't appear to have any mention actually >
81. The Administrator and the New Directors are of the view that an orderly court-supervised wind-down under the OBCA and CBCA at this time is in the best interests of all stakeholders of the Credit Union and the PSC Entities as opposed to a bankruptcy or other liquidation process. The business and operations of PSC, PFL, and PIB are separate and distinct from that of the Credit Union, however, given the co-branding of those entities, there is a risk that any notion that a “PACE” entity has filed for bankruptcy could cause unwarranted and undue concern among the Credit Union’s members, and cause an unwarranted withdrawal of Credit Union deposits out of misplaced concern about the financial well-being of the Credit Union. In connection with the court-ordered wind-up, the Administrator has devised and will carry out a comprehensive communications plan to explain to the Credit Union members the fact of the wind-up of the PSC Entities, the fact that the wind-up is being undertaken under the supervision of this Court and an independent liquidator, the fact that the wind-up of these entities will not have an impact on the Credit Union (other than a potential write off of the sub-debt), and that there may be eventual bankruptcies of these entities. The ability to carry out such a communications plan is particular important "given the coverage the Credit Unions Administration proceedings have received in the press to date". For these reasons, the Administrator is of the view that a court-supervised winding-up of the PSC Entities on the terms proposed is appropriate and provides the 'greatest level of protection' to all stakeholders.
11:23 am
April 6, 2013
Offline
There is also the harsh reality that subsidiary PACE Securities was not self-sustaining. Some credit union members likely had more money than PACE Securities had in capital:
74. As of May 11, 2020, PSC’s RAC [risk adjusted capital] was $158,000. Based on the current market volatility, it is possible that only one or two more adverse market movements caused by either the COVID-19 pandemic, the shock in oil prices or other events could cause PSC’s RAC to fall below zero. PSC’s ongoing operating losses of approximately $100,000 per month will also contribute to the ongoing decline of the RAC.
75. As a result of the foregoing, the Credit Union, as the sole shareholder of PSC, passed ashareholder resolution authorizing and seeking the court-supervised wind-up of PSC and its direct and indirect subsidiaries. …
Not surprisingly, PACE Credit Union was likely not interested in writing a $100,000 cheque each month to a non-core PACE Securities to keep it afloat.
11:23 am
May 15, 2020
Offline
Relevance ???
11:28 am
April 6, 2013
Offline
Yaftica said
Relevance ???
…
It is legally not relevant that PACE Credit Union is the only shareholder.
Just means only one shareholder needs to be contacted for PACE Securities matters that require a shareholder vote.
Legal immunity from corporate liability still holds with one shareholder.
12:37 pm
April 6, 2013
Offline
Elaine said
I finally got a copy of the thing I signed.
An email copy and a hard copy.No original.
First time I have seen it since January 2018.
The top signature is mine but going along there are some and at least one that is NOT mine..(but my name)
Anyone have any idea on how to proceed with this?
Just go to the cops?
Get a lawyer?
Ask Barbara and Terri?
The one handwriting analysis place I contacted wanted 800 bucks for 4 hours work on it.I am sure they do a good job-but I don't know who would accept their report and I am sure courts have their own.And 1 grand is just the start-if they have to go to court it adds up from there.
So since the salesguy was from Pace Credit Union there is a bit of liability involved if in fact it is a forgery,I would imagine.And the stress I am under gets worse and worse the longer this goes on.Adds to the pain of the Atypical Trigeminal neuralgia.
And because I was never expected to get the form I guess it was just get it done by the salesguy.A Pace Credit Union Salesguy.
Still haven't got any bonds-that would have ruined the illusion.
For obvious reasons, the credit union is not going surrender the original, if they still have it.
I would let the credit union know that some of the documentation was not completed and signed by you. Hold off on the handwriting expert. It may be quite obvious to anyone looking at the handwriting that the forms were not completed by the same person.
I would also start looking for a lawyer. The lawyer will be able to tell you which handwriting experts are accepted by the courts so that you don't waste money on an expert who is not. Unfortunately, the lawyer will cost money. Probably at least $500.
I think it is a good idea to get advice from a lawyer. Your situation involves claims that are not going to be independently verifiable. For example, how does one provide evidence that one did not receive a copy of the form?
The credit union would investigate and question the staff member. Staff member could say that he/she does not remember specifically. That was years ago.
But, the staff member could claim he/she likely did provide a copy. That's what the training said was required. Perhaps, the member misfiled their copy. Perhaps, the member now has "selective amnesia" after the preference shares didn't work out as expected.
It becomes your word against the word of the staff member.
9:37 pm
June 17, 2020
Offline
Norman 1, you sure know a lot about the particulars of PCU and Pace Securities and the investments. Why are you so keen to prove those who were grievously affected by this situation wrong? How are you so matter-a-fact about things? Are you able to tell people about the two IIROC investigations that were conducted on Pace Securities? What did IIROC have on these guys that maybe we have not read?
Do you think IIROC is out of line with their alleged findings? Do you think any of the allegations are well-founded? What’s your take on the hearings coming up?
11:09 pm
October 21, 2013
Online
There is a real possibility that the original forms no longer exist.
I say this because we had an issue at Luminus, another credit union.
Spouse bought a GIC from them, opening up a membership at the same time, in person. It took more time than expected. By the time the transaction was completed, it was closing time or past closing time, so they said they would mail the completed forms later. I think someone on their end still had to sign them.
The forms never came in the mail, so spouse complained. After some delays, during which they said they were "looking" for the forms, we were told that the forms were inaccessible because they had been sent out for microfilming or scanning or something of that nature. I believe they said microfilm, and this was not that long ago. Periodically, over quite a few months, spouse called to find out the progress but it took perhaps a year (a long time anyway) for the copies to finally show up and they were not the originals even though one original copy was supposed to be ours.
My guess is that they were not going to keep the originals. If they were planning to keep them, why would they need to preserve them electronically? And why else did we never receive the paper copies owed to us?
It seems that paper is increasingly considered unnecessary. Our cheques come back scanned and the originals disappear. Faxed signatures are accepted by lawyers. And you can open a bank account with an online signature at some financial institutions.
So, my guess is that your originals are gone.
I would anticipate that the accuracy of the graphoanalysis would be weakened by not having the originals. Factors such as the amount of pressure used by the writer can't be scanned, and, as you know, no scan is a perfect representation. Much would depend on the resolution. I find it hard to imagine they would use the highest available. We've all seen the images of those returned cheques, and it's likely about the same as that. Higher res is going to take longer and cost them more, if available.
However, if it ever went to court, the original, if it exists, would presumably have to be made available to the plaintiff. (I am not a lawyer and can't give you legal advice.) I think you would need to ascertain whetehr there is an original before engaging a graphoanalyst.
I agree with Norman about the need to get a lawyer. This is unfortunately a complex and nasty issue, with many parties seeming to have had a hand in it. I think you have to either get a lawyer or give it up, neither of which is attractive and will cost you one way or another. One of the questions I would ask the lawyer is whether it is reasonable to expect your costs to be covered by the other part(ies). Many lawyers will give you a free half hour consultation during which you can decide if they can help you. You could probably speak to a few of them until you get a feel for their competence.
If your signature was forged, then that is another kettle of fish than merely an investment issue. It's a criminal offense and would involve the police. The lawyer could tell you what can be done to pursue that side of it. Certainly the courts are clogged, and it's even worse now due to covid.
I am not sure how obvious it is that this is not your signature. If it's very obvious, the brazenness and stupidity really make one wonder what sort of person you are dealing with.
As regards our experience with Luminus, we were freaked out by their cavalier attitude to providing necessary documents and their inability to account for them promptly and satisfactorily. When the GIC matured, the membership was closed and we were relieved. They were too scary for me!
1:39 pm
July 2, 2020
Offline
This is directed at no one in particular. As my first post here, if you haven't already, I suggest you go back & re-read post #282. Here's a link:
E-mail everyone in that list. Even include the CEO of PACE if you feel so inclined. Check post #276 for her e-mail. Here's a link:
- document exactly what happened to you.
- be accurate.
- be professional.
- be respectful.
- articulate it well.
- use dates if you have them.
- name names if you have them.
- be clear on which players screwed you over:
- PACE Securities
- PACE Financial
- First Hamilton Holdings
- all of the above
- a list in point form is much easier to read than run on sentences.
Your story needs to be heard !
7:50 am
June 22, 2020
Offline
Until we see what the regulators and courts do, we also need to use the court of “Public Opinion” to get PCU to make this right.
The courts can debate the legalese all they want but the fundamental issue here is that members had trust in their credit union (PCU) and otherwise wouldn’t have invested.
The trust in PCU and all credit unions is at stake here if this isn’t remedied for affected members.
3:46 pm
July 1, 2020
Offline
New to this website and the forum. It looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm a CPA and independent CFP and seem to attract new clients who have been wronged by former advisors. That's why I'm here. A new client had no idea what the status of his FH Pref Shares were because his former advisor "left the scene", so I started investigating. I wish I had found you all before I read through all of the EY liquidation info to try to piece together this egregious debacle that seems like a made for TV movie. My client invested approx $50K just over a year ago in what he was sold as a well diversified portfolio of Low-Med risk bonds. Or so he thought. I don't understand why after the problems with PCU were uncovered late in 2018, PCS wasn't immediately reviewed I will catch up on your many posts this weekend; but wanted to let you know I'm here and to determine what the next steps are. I've spoken with EY, IROC and CIPF which was not very helpful. Have a sunny weekend 
3:52 pm
June 22, 2020
Offline
First post here too; I've been at the same credit union for half a century and do/did all of my banking over these 50 years at this same branch (which was subsequently absorbed by the PACE CU brand years ago). I had my house mortgage here, had personal loans - including car loans here - and all my accumulating savings invested at this branch.
Five years ago, I sold my house and allowed the money derived from the sale to stay in GIC's at this CU. One day, the manager (I think) phoned me out-of-the-blue and told me that this was a low interest rate (at the time) and that I should talk to one of their financial advisors. And so, a meeting was set up on the premises and this nakedly nascent and naïve CU member became an investor in Pace Securities. What could possibly go wrong? It was the brand name I trusted for half a century.
So, all the bulk of the resulting proceeds of my house created the entirety of my RIF income - attached to my Pace Securities account. It pays (paid) a substantial bi-annual payment upon which I rely to live. I have standard OAS and CPP income too. The majority of the principal in that account was invested in PFL and FHH. I unilaterally trusted my PACE SECURITIES advisor for everything since I had no financial advice whatsoever otherwise. I was far beyond being ignorant.
My first payment from my 2020 RIF payment was to have been made on June 30th and usually arrived by Canada Post on a Laurentian Bank cheque.
The mailbox was/is empty. I am loaning some money from a friend to pay this month's rent.
5:06 pm
May 19, 2020
Offline
RWAbacus406 said
First post here too; I've been at the same credit union for half a century and do/did all of my banking over these 50 years at this same branch (which was subsequently absorbed by the PACE CU brand years ago). I had my house mortgage here, had personal loans - including car loans here - and all my accumulating savings invested at this branch.Five years ago, I sold my house and allowed the money derived from the sale to stay in GIC's at this CU. One day, the manager (I think) phoned me out-of-the-blue and told me that this was a low interest rate (at the time) and that I should talk to one of their financial advisors. And so, a meeting was set up on the premises and this nakedly nascent and naïve CU member became an investor in Pace Securities. What could possibly go wrong? It was the brand name I trusted for half a century.
So, all the bulk of the resulting proceeds of my house created the entirety of my RIF income - attached to my Pace Securities account. It pays (paid) a substantial bi-annual payment upon which I rely to live. I have standard OAS and CPP income too. The majority of the principal in that account was invested in PFL and FHH. I unilaterally trusted my PACE SECURITIES advisor for everything since I had no financial advice whatsoever otherwise. I was far beyond being ignorant.
My first payment from my 2020 RIF payment was to have been made on June 30th and usually arrived by Canada Post on a Laurentian Bank cheque.
The mailbox was/is empty. I am loaning some money from a friend to pay this month's rent.
I am heartbroken to read your story. You are not alone in this deceit. We will fight and make this right for all of us. Stay strong.
5:20 pm
May 19, 2020
Offline
bpcpa said
New to this website and the forum. It looks like I have a lot of catching up to do. I'm a CPA and independent CFP and seem to attract new clients who have been wronged by former advisors. That's why I'm here. A new client had no idea what the status of his FH Pref Shares were because his former advisor "left the scene", so I started investigating. I wish I had found you all before I read through all of the EY liquidation info to try to piece together this egregious debacle that seems like a made for TV movie. My client invested approx $50K just over a year ago in what he was sold as a well diversified portfolio of Low-Med risk bonds. Or so he thought. I don't understand why after the problems with PCU were uncovered late in 2018, PCS wasn't immediately reviewed I will catch up on your many posts this weekend; but wanted to let you know I'm here and to determine what the next steps are. I've spoken with EY, IROC and CIPF which was not very helpful. Have a sunny weekend
If you know any other CA's who might be in the same boat can you please pass this website along.And ask your client if they would mind posting.The more the merrier-and we get a better idea of who was affected.Thank you for coming on the site
7:49 pm
September 24, 2018
Offline
Just wondering outloud....
I am member of another credit union and have always had a very good relationship. I have seen them offer these "preferred shares", but never bought them. This PACE issue is crazy ! I am following just because it doesn't seem real.
Anyways, I just thought I might mention has anyone that has been effected talk to another credit union and what they thought of the whole thing ?
Sometimes they may know something, or may want to help hoping to get your business....
10:39 pm
April 6, 2013
Offline
Sheri said
Norman 1, you sure know a lot about the particulars of PCU and Pace Securities and the investments. Why are you so keen to prove those who were grievously affected by this situation wrong? How are you so matter-a-fact about things?
What exactly were you expecting? Were you expecting to find the truth about your situation or were you expecting a fairy tale about how everything will be okay?
If you were seeking a fairy tale, then this site is not the best place for that quest.
Many of us here have lots of experience with investments and take them seriously. We have learned to distinguish what an opportunity actually is, in contrast to what we wish it to be or what the product pusher wishes us to believe it to be.
Many of us, like savemoresaveoften mentioned, have learned to spot fairy tales that will likely cost us money, like that one you were unfortunately told, that misrepresented the risk of something that pays 5% to 7% while GIC's were paying about half of that. But, then again, it is very easy to believe in a pipe dream that was a dream one was dreaming for. 
…Do you think IIROC is out of line with their alleged findings? Do you think any of the allegations are well-founded? What’s your take on the hearings coming up?
IIROC's allegations are just one side of the story. We haven't heard yet the respondents' side of the story.
IIROC has no jurisdiction over PACE Credit Union, PACE Financial, or First Hamilton Holdings. As well, suspended IIROC member PACE Securities is actually not named as a respondent in the hearing notice.
At most, it looks like just Thomson and McRae who are personally going under the IIROC bus.
6:22 am
July 2, 2020
Offline
..... At most, it looks like just Thomson and McRae who are personally going under the IIROC bus.
If I might add to what you said.....
The IIROC bus is only an "administrative action". It is "not" a civil or criminal proceeding.
The screwed over stakeholders of PACE Securities / PACE Financial / First Hamilton Holdings (of which I'm just one) won't be seeing a dime from the "administrative action".
7:39 am
March 30, 2017
Offline
maxb said
Just wondering outloud....I am member of another credit union and have always had a very good relationship. I have seen them offer these "preferred shares", but never bought them. This PACE issue is crazy ! I am following just because it doesn't seem real.
Anyways, I just thought I might mention has anyone that has been effected talk to another credit union and what they thought of the whole thing ?
Sometimes they may know something, or may want to help hoping to get your business....
I will be more careful if another CU talked openly and loudly speak about the Pace pref issue. That would appear unprofessional for the CU and the rep.
One need to be very careful and 100% need to read the prospectus BEFORE investing in something like a pref or private loan etc. They can not lie of the true use of the funds or how it will be used to generate the "guarantee" return in the legal document. Sales rep may not even read the thing themselves and may have just preach what their management told them.
Please write your comments in the forum.