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Double Branded Debit Cards
September 16, 2020
7:52 am
KamWest
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Can anyone confirm if these new cards run on the interac system or on Visa or Mastercard. Until recently it was mandated that all debit run on interac and that cost merchants between 5 and 15 cents per transaction.

In the USA debit runs on Visa and Mastercard and the merchant pays a percentage just like on credit cards.

If Visa and Mastercard bypass Interac in Canada it will turn to a percentage charge and Canada will lose its only not for profit payment system.

Little do people realize that Interac is not for profit and as a merchant myself I specifically accept Interac Debit, e-transfer & cash.

All the banks seem to be migrating from straight debit cards to double branded Visa and Mastercard Debit cards and I fear that puts our not for profit interac system at risk.

In the end these percentages will get passed along to the clients and I know in my business we run on razor thin margins. It was a conscious decision to stop accepting credit cards or increase prices.

We were promised breaks during covid times but instead we were hand keypunching credit cards over the phone and the fees started getting higher and higher.

Interac and e-transfer is the one way we can still keep the money out of the hands of these billion dollar corporation and keep it in the merchant or consumers hands.

Everybody needs to make sure they still have and keep an Interac Branded card to support our not for profit payment system. I fear with these new introductions we could be seeing a massive shift away from Interac.

September 16, 2020
8:22 am
topgun
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KamWest said
Can anyone confirm if these new cards run on the interac system or on Visa or Mastercard. Until recently it was mandated that all debit run on interac and that cost merchants between 5 and 15 cents per transaction.

In the USA debit runs on Visa and Mastercard and the merchant pays a percentage just like on credit cards.

If Visa and Mastercard bypass Interac in Canada it will turn to a percentage charge and Canada will lose its only not for profit payment system.

Little do people realize that Interac is not for profit and as a merchant myself I specifically accept Interac Debit, e-transfer & cash.

All the banks seem to be migrating from straight debit cards to double branded Visa and Mastercard Debit cards and I fear that puts our not for profit interac system at risk.

In the end these percentages will get passed along to the clients and I know in my business we run on razor thin margins. It was a conscious decision to stop accepting credit cards or increase prices.

We were promised breaks during covid times but instead we were hand keypunching credit cards over the phone and the fees started getting higher and higher.

Interac and e-transfer is the one way we can still keep the money out of the hands of these billion dollar corporation and keep it in the merchant or consumers hands.

Everybody needs to make sure they still have and keep an Interac Branded card to support our not for profit payment system. I fear with these new introductions we could be seeing a massive shift away from Interac.  

Although they are called Visa/Mastercard Debit they are processed through Interac.

Have a Great Day

September 16, 2020
8:34 am
KamWest
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@topgun

You are correct with this but here is the big but....

Visa and Mastercard is saying you now have all the same protection with THEIR debit cards as with THEIR credit cards.

INTERAC offers fraud protection as well but the credit card companies are saying theirs is different and if that is the case then they have to cover those costs.

I know initially they mandated that all debit must go through INTERAC in Canada but I have a sneaking suspicion this is changing especially if you look at the new PC Card which they are saying works like a debit card but its really a spending account.

The lines between these cards and a true INTERAC card are being blurred and I can't help but feel that true INTERAC is going to go the way of the dodo bird.

Anyone know how long they were mandated to use INTERAC?
I know they fought it tooth and nail at the beginning.

September 16, 2020
11:14 am
Norman1
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According to Visa Purchase Protection: Layers of Security, Visa Canada does not provide any protection for any transactions that are not actually processed by Visa:

1 Visa's Zero Liability Policy covers Canada-issued cards and does not apply to anonymous Visa Prepaid*, Visa Purchasing, Visa Corporate, Visa Commercial, or any transactions not processed by Visa. Visa Cardholders must notify their financial institution immediately of any unauthorized use. …

So, if the debit transaction with a Canadian Visa Debit card was one of those that are processed by Interac, then it is subject to Interac's protections and not Visa's.

September 16, 2020
11:20 am
KamWest
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https://i.postimg.cc/w3KxKhvg/Picture0015.png

https://www.visa.ca/en_CA/pay-with-visa/cards/debit-cards.html

It looks like they are starting to add their own purchase protection

September 30, 2020
9:44 am
unforgettableid
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KamWest said
Can anyone confirm if these new cards run on the interac system or on Visa or Mastercard.

Hi! I wonder if you searched the Internet before asking us. I found the answer within a few minutes, using just one single Google search.

The answer is: it depends.

Helcim.com writes: "Whenever a consumer makes a purchase using swipe or chip-and-PIN technology on their debit card, the transaction will be processed as an Interac debit transaction. It is only when a consumer makes an online or phone purchase using the numbers on the front of their card that the card will function as a Visa debit card."

All the banks seem to be migrating from straight debit cards to double branded Visa and Mastercard Debit cards and I fear that puts our not for profit interac system at risk.

In the end these percentages will get passed along to the clients and I know in my business we run on razor thin margins.

Again, the Visa debit fees only apply to phone purchases, not to in-person purchases. But I agree that the fees can frustrate merchants.

In the US, the laws are different. Over there, merchants can impose a surcharge upon Visa and MasterCard purchases.

Here, merchants can offer a discount on cash and Interac purchases, but they can't impose a surcharge on Visa or MasterCard purchases.

We were promised breaks during COVID times. But instead, we were hand-keypunching credit cards over the phone, and the fees started getting higher and higher.

You can accept e-transfers. You can accept cheques, although they occasionally do bounce. If the customer drops by contactless pickup, you can leave hand sanitizer and a PIN pad outside on a chair for them to use.

If you visit your customer's home for delivery, you can accept debit payments. You could use a Square reader, which costs $59, and a compatible smartphone. Square's fee for an Interac debit transaction is ten cents. (Their fee for a Visa or MasterCard transaction is higher.)

You put your smartphone and Square reader down on a flat surface: for example, on a milk crate, or on the pavement. You take a few steps back, to allow for physical distancing. Finally, the customer taps their Interac debit card on the reader.

September 30, 2020
10:20 am
KamWest
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Thank you for the lecture on google, I always appreciate that.
You are also trying to lecture me on accepting e-transfers when I clearly stated that is what I do.

That said you gave me some great insight from Helcim.com, I was not able to find those details in my search.

One point though is that it was said originally that ALL debit transactions must be processed through Interac in Canada and that has been loosened even though Interac is now also available online and they are working on making that more widely available.

I currently only take e-transfers online and debit in my brick and mortar store.

The main question for me is....
The rules are relaxing and if Visa and Mastercard ever gets to use their system for in person debit then Interac is dead. Almost all debit cards released by the banks are now Visa or MC. I happen to know as a fact that my bank told me my Interac card was being replaced by a Visa Debit card.

What hope does our interac system have with such fierce competition?

September 30, 2020
11:15 am
unforgettableid
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KamWest said
Almost all debit cards released by the banks are now Visa or MC.

I'm unaware of any bank debit cards in Canada which don't support Interac.

I did some Google searching, to get more information.

Modern TD debit cards support both Interac and Visa debit. You can see a photo of one here.

Modern BMO debit cards support both Interac and MasterCard debit. (Source.)

I assume that other banks probably work similarly. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

I happen to know as a fact that my bank told me my Interac card was being replaced by a Visa Debit card.

Maybe they really meant that your card was being replaced by a dual-network card which supports both Interac and Visa debit.

I wonder which bank you're using. Also, I wonder if you already have the card, and if you could please check which network logos are on it.

September 30, 2020
11:27 am
KamWest
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Yes it is the dual network card I was referring to. I had a straight Interac/Bank card and I was forced to turn it in for a Visa Branded Debit Card.

That is when I started to realize the push to replace Interac was on.

Then if you remember there was even the movement to sell Interac and to turn it from a non profit to a for profit organization. You can only deduce who was at the core of that movement.

I fear the days of Interac will eventually come to a close and when that happens there will be fees similar to credit cards on all debit card transactions. The Banks will not rest until they can force the US for profit system down our throats.

September 30, 2020
11:38 am
unforgettableid
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KamWest said
I had a straight Interac/Bank card and I was forced to turn it in for a Visa Branded Debit Card.

Which bank are you with?

September 30, 2020
11:39 am
KamWest
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That happened at CIBC

September 30, 2020
11:55 am
unforgettableid
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KamWest said
I had a straight Interac/Bank card and I was forced to turn it in for a Visa Branded Debit Card ... at CIBC

I think you are mistaken. I think you have a dual-network card, not a Visa-only debit card. Please let me explain.

CIBC's debit card is called a "CIBC Advantage Debit Card".

Please go here.

You'll see that a modern CIBC debit card has both Visa and Interac logos on it.

Under "How to use your CIBC Advantage Debit Card", please expand the "Shopping at stores in Canada" heading.

You'll see the text: "The CIBC Advantage Debit Card is accepted at all Canadian stores where Interac Debit and Interac Flash is accepted." (Emphasis mine.)

Therefore, I think it's safe to assume that your new CIBC debit card supports not only Visa debit, but also Interac debit.

If you still don't believe me, please look at your new card, and please tell us which network logos are shown on the front.

Have I now successfully convinced you that you have a dual-network debit card?

September 30, 2020
12:10 pm
KamWest
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@unforgettableid I know you are trying to help but you are missing my point.

Yes it is a double branded card, I clearly stated that and I also know it runs on debit and also their visa network.

The point I am making is that all banks are taking banking/debit cards out of circulation and replacing them with double branded visa/mastercard cards.

I am not saying they don't run on the debit network, I am saying the day is approaching when the switch will be turned and the cards will no longer function on the Interac network.

Remember I said that originally ALL debit transactions had to happen on Interac, now phone and internet sales are allowed not to. This is even though Interac has the system in place to use the Interac Network online.

Please stop focusing on the card and look at the message of what I am trying to say.

The days of Interac are limited and unless we heavily legislate it Interac will go away. They already tried to get rid of the non profit designation once before, it was only with the outcry from small business that it did not happen.

Mark my words, slowly and surely the card companies will encroach into the Interac network until there is nothing left. Then merchants will have to pay the fees for debit, same as on credit cards.

September 30, 2020
12:22 pm
unforgettableid
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KamWest said
Remember I said that originally ALL debit transactions had to happen on Interac, now phone and internet sales are allowed not to. This is even though Interac has the system in place to use the Interac Network online.

This is true.

Visa Debit cards do also support in-person Interac transactions. However, Visa Debit cards never support Interac Online. I think this is because of a rule made by the Visa corporation.

I personally think this isn't a huge loss. Even back when Interac Online was more popular, most retailers still didn't support Interac Online transactions.

The days of Interac are limited and unless we heavily legislate it Interac will go away. They already tried to get rid of the non profit designation once before, it was only with the outcry from small business that it did not happen.

Mark my words, slowly and surely the card companies will encroach into the Interac network until there is nothing left. Then merchants will have to pay the fees for debit, same as on credit cards.

You made what's called a "negative prediction".

Your prediction might indeed come true. Or it might not.

In the US, retailers have won increased freedoms over time. US retailers used to be forbidden from imposing surcharges on credit-card transactions. Now such surcharges are permitted.

Likewise, if Canadian retailers push for additional freedoms, they too might win them.

Mega-corporation lobbyists are powerful, but they don't always get what they want. It can be helpful for small retailers to band together by joining associations.

Please write your comments in the forum.