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Email this1:39 pm
November 8, 2018
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Freedom said
Is a savings account backed by CIPF riskier than one backed by CDIC?
Depends how one defines risk. The government will never run out of money (they'll print more if needed), so CDIC coverage is ironclad within defined limits for different types of deposits.
CIPF has limited funds. From what I can find, it is about $600 million in cash. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
Half a billion sounds huge, but CIPF offers coverage of up to $1M (or even more?). Simple math says CIPF fund is only enough to cover 600 people each having $1M deposited.
Now, how realistic is it for a CIPF member (or multiple at the same time) to fold and have more than $600M in CIPF covered deposits? That's the answer a person must give to themselves when calculating the risk.
For me personally, I am staying with CDIC. My cash deposits follow HISA chart from this Web site: I sort chart by rates from top rate to bottom, and my funds go to top entities from that list which are CDIC covered.
9:14 am
August 27, 2026
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Case Insolvency Still on CIPF's books at Dec 31, 2015 Elapsed time
MF Global Canada 2011 $486,000 4+ years
Barret Capital Feb 2012 $8,000 3+ years
First Leaside Feb 2012 $1,379,000 3+ years
Octagon Capital 2015 $1,063,000 Under 1 year
this is a list of how long it took the CIPF to pay out to people
9:37 am
August 20, 2019
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Google ai, gave me “a short, forum-ready reply you can copy and paste:
That's not actually what those numbers mean.
Those dollar figures are just residual funds left on CIPF's balance sheets for things like ongoing bankruptcy lawsuits, complex appeals on weird products, or unclaimed property where they couldn't find the account holder.
The vast majority of regular, everyday investors in those cases had their accounts transferred or paid out within the standard timeframe shortly after the collapse. It didn't take 4 years to pay regular people.”
Ok?
12:45 pm
August 27, 2026
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No, how long it took the last individual to get reimbursed for their investment.
2:08 pm
August 20, 2019
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"MF Global Canada Co. timeline:
The 2-Week Transfer: Within two weeks of MF Global Canada's bankruptcy declaration in early November 2011, the Court-appointed Trustee (KPMG Inc.), with financial support and backing from the CIPF, successfully transferred approximately 7,800 customer accounts to RBC Dominion Securities Inc., ensuring near-immediate continuity for everyday retail investors.
The "4+ Years" Delay: The subsequent years of litigation and accounting on CIPF's books were due to complex, cross-border corporate estate wind-downs, such as resolving proprietary claims with the U.S. chapter 11 trustee and UK affiliates, rather than outstanding retail investor claims." As per google ai.
9:40 am
November 18, 2017
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Strictly speaking, CDIC coverage is by a separately managed fund. It is not explicitly a guarantee that the federal government will cover all debts left hanging. The fund contribution rates (for the insured corporations to pay to support the fund) are set to cover losses, and there is a general good feeling that the government will sort things out, having the ability to borrow heavily, set tax rates and lean on the contribution rates.
RetirEd
1:01 pm
August 27, 2026
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AR said
"MF Global Canada Co. timeline:The 2-Week Transfer: Within two weeks of MF Global Canada's bankruptcy declaration in early November 2011, the Court-appointed Trustee (KPMG Inc.), with financial support and backing from the CIPF, successfully transferred approximately 7,800 customer accounts to RBC Dominion Securities Inc., ensuring near-immediate continuity for everyday retail investors.
The "4+ Years" Delay: The subsequent years of litigation and accounting on CIPF's books were due to complex, cross-border corporate estate wind-downs, such as resolving proprietary claims with the U.S. chapter 11 trustee and UK affiliates, rather than outstanding retail investor claims." As per google ai.
The reply from Google says 4 years. I believe it’s 2 weeks with the CDIC.
Is this value for money at this rate and with this deposit insurance? It’s not good enough for me.
But knock yourself out.
2:09 pm
August 20, 2019
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42 posts in less than two weeks is a most enviable position, do carry on without me.
And perhaps explain to a moderator what it is you mean that I should knock myself out- do not explain it to me, thanks.
I am unsubscribing to this thread which Peter was most gracious to share and start.
Thanks Peter, I appreciate it and thank you for having me as a member.
4:51 pm
October 27, 2013
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CIPF and CDIC are not all that different on a macro basis. Both fund themselves from member firm assessments (fees). Both also have access to lines of credit (borrowing capacity) and insurance pollcies should assets (funds) be insufficient to reimburse depositors/investors. Both will pay out to individual accounts according to their account category. Both CDIC and CIPF could have liabilities on their books for potentially years as they seek recovery of shortfalls from what they've paid out via litigation, bankruptcy settlements, etc. recognizing investment firms vs banks involved will have different kinds of assets and liabilities.
To respond to Alexandre in her earlier post, it is only the shortfall that needs to be addressed and covered in each account to insurance limits. The accounts of most CIPF covered firms contain securities (bonds, stocks, mutual funds) which are not going anywhere, i.e. they normally still exist in nominee name to the benefit of the account holder held in trust and are not assets of the firm itself (as noted in the term Assets under Management). Only in the case of something like malfeasance where the securities were 'stolen' fraudulently would securities could be at risk and thus the number of securities themselves would then be returned to the account holder in kind by CIPF up to insurance limits.
It is mostly a case of cash balances that are actually part of the firm's assets and for which CIPF would need to cover shortfalls and keep the account holder whole.
There is a lot more information that can be googled on CIPF coverage for folks to absorb and should absorb if they have brokerage accounts.
P.S. CIPF (like CDIC) has account categories such as $1M coverage for securities and cash in cash, margin and TFSA accounts combined and another $1M combined for registered accounts like RRSPs and RRIFs. And I think a separate category for RESPs (needs validation).
5:02 pm
October 27, 2013
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From AI Gemini responding to: how long does it take CIPF to payout to account holders
The Canadian Investor Protection Fund (CIPF) does not state a fixed, guaranteed payout timeline because the process depends entirely on court proceedings and the complexity of the insolvency. However, historical cases and typical bankruptcy timelines provide a general road map of what to expect.
The General Timeline Breakdown
Initial Freeze & Evaluation (Days to Weeks): When a member brokerage fails, a court typically appoints a bankruptcy trustee to take control of the assets. Your account will be frozen temporarily while the trustee reconciles the firm’s records against actual holdings.
The Bulk Account Transfer (Weeks): Instead of writing a "payout" check, the CIPF's primary objective is to move your cash and securities intact to a solvent, healthy investment firm. In straightforward broker failures, this transition or bulk transfer often takes a few weeks to a couple of months.
Missing Asset Compensation (Months): If the firm's records show discrepancies—meaning some of your shares or cash are physically missing—the CIPF steps in to pay out the difference (up to $1 million per account category). Because the trustee must first calculate the final shortfall after liquidating available assets, recovering missing property can take several months to over a year.
Important Constraints to Keep in Mind
The 180-Day Deadline: You have a strict 180-day window from the date of insolvency to file an official claim with the trustee or the Canadian Investor Protection Fund. Failing to submit your documentation within this period could forfeit your coverage.
Market Value Lock: The CIPF covers the value of your assets as of the date of insolvency. If your investments lose market value while your account is frozen during court proceedings, the CIPF does not compensate you for those market losses.
As I see it, the biggest risk in all this is the inability to trade securities from an insolvent firm until they have been transferred to a solvent firm and/or in cases where securities are actually missing, to wait until CIPF compensates for any securities and cash that are actually missing. Market values could change significantly between date of insolvency and being available for the account holder to trade again.
5:14 pm
August 27, 2026
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agree with this.
There is a lot more information that can be Googled about CIPF coverage that people should take the time to understand, especially if they have brokerage accounts.
They should do this research before opening an account. There is much less government involvement with CIPF than there is with CDIC.
8:54 pm
October 27, 2013
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Spend time on the website itself https://www.cipf.ca/
10:03 pm
April 6, 2013
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Freedom said
The reply from Google says 4 years. …
No, it does not. Google says MF Global Canada clients received their holdings within a month.
MF Global Canada was declared bankrupt by Ontario Superior Court of Justice on November 4, 2011.
By November 18, the futures, equity and fixed-income accounts were being bulk transferred to RBC Dominion Securities.
By November 30, the balances in the foreign exchange accounts were being paid out by cheque.
A year later, Global News reported that there were no missing assets for the Canadian clients:
At the time, regulators said $600 million in client money at the U.S. parent was missing. However, an investigation indicated that all assets of the clients of MF Global Canada Co. had been accounted for.
10:25 pm
April 6, 2013
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AltaRed said
From AI Gemini responding to: how long does it take CIPF to payout to account holders…
Missing Asset Compensation (Months): If the firm's records show discrepancies—meaning some of your shares or cash are physically missing—the CIPF steps in to pay out the difference (up to $1 million per account category). Because the trustee must first calculate the final shortfall after liquidating available assets, recovering missing property can take several months to over a year.
…
That's incorrect. No deposit insurer or CIPF makes one wait months or years to locate missing assets.
Once it establishes what one is owed, the insurer buys one's claims and then wrangle with the bankruptcy trustee for months or years to settle its purchased claim against the failed institution.
One would wait months or years if one's records and the institution's records don't agree. CDIC won't buy one's $80,000 term deposit out if, for some reason, the failed member's deposit records only shows a $5,000 term deposit.
9:23 am
August 27, 2026
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Is that the history of the CDIC? They seem quite prodded to say that everyone gets their money back within two weeks.
10:14 am
October 27, 2013
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Freedom said
Is that the history of the CDIC? They seem quite prodded to say that everyone gets their money back within two weeks.
The discussion is focused on CIPF, the umbrella under which the WS new savings account is insured. One needs to visit the CIPF website I linked to inform oneself of the facts.
3:46 pm
November 18, 2017
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For complicated stuff like this, I'd avoid AI usage. Go to sources.
Oh, for a return to robust news sources that provide information rather than trying to get attention with repetitive, web-like structures that keep steering one back to the same stuff and not letting one know when one is done!
(The AIs will kill us all soon. Sci-Fi warned us a century ago!)
RetirEd
3:57 pm
October 27, 2013
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RetirEd said
For complicated stuff like this, I'd avoid AI usage. Go to sources.
Agreed. I was looking for a 'lazy reply' and posted an unverified AI response.
5:06 pm
August 27, 2026
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AltaRed said
The discussion is focused on CIPF, the umbrella under which the WS new savings account is insured. One needs to visit the CIPF website I linked to inform oneself of the facts.
Well, they needed to be compared to CDIC or another deposit insurer to determine the level of risk and whether their coverage is better or worse. Then, you can see if the risk-to-return ratio of the interest rate makes sense.
I believe the highest CDIC-insured account is around 2.8%, while this one is 2.5%. Is this a good risk-to-return trade-off?
