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Duca T5 error
April 20, 2021
8:21 am
HISAhopper
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GR said

Your typo of paying "interest" should, of course, read paying "income tax".
Here's my understanding of the situation. Their Class A bonus shares dividends are shown as interest income, not dividend income, for tax purposes. The full amount is taxed in the year posted, but is not available to the member. The member can only redeem a portion, starting in year 2 at 50%, year 3 at 60%, etc. 100% can only be redeemed if the member waits 6 or 7 years! If redeemed at less than 100%, the member forfeits the balance, but the member has already paid tax on the full amount when posted initially! I believe the only recourse to adjust would be to treat the uncollectable portion forfeited as a deduction from all other interest income in the year forfeited or treat that amount as "bank charges, etc."  

Thanks for the correction "income tax" rather than "interest".
I did not sign on to this "shares" thing that they created themselves.
What is wrong with calling it a bonus (then no tax like other bank promo bonus for opening a chequing account) like they probably did with the original T5?
As you said 50% can be redeemed at year 2, can you elaborate what I need to do by "redeem"? (sorry about my poor knowledge on finance!)
Thanks

April 20, 2021
10:43 am
savemoresaveoften
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HISAhopper said

I did not sign on to this "shares" thing that they created themselves.

You did sign up for that when you became a member and be included as part of the profit sharing.
In general, most dont complain when they receive free money basically. But yes the timing of tax vs when you can cash out can be annoying to some.
On the other hand, it has the same effect of having a 5yr GIC and have the interest payable at maturity so it accrues at the GIC rate. You still have to report the interest in your T5 each year and pay tax each year even tho you dont actually receive that money 5 years later.

April 20, 2021
12:57 pm
savemoresaveoften
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Loonie said
I have no idea what a Daylight Savings Account is. This one doesn't appear on my statement.

I think they create that account for me and theres where they put the "vested" share amount in there ? Thats the only explanation I can think of. My bonus share account only went up by $4 this year and I see a In-and-Out transaction of $99 that ends up going to the Daylight Savings Acct.

So the bonus this year is $103, $99 of the bonus share acct is now vested and they move it to the Daylight Savings. I think the DS account is like a chequing account.

They do create so many different acct when they dont have to....

April 20, 2021
2:24 pm
frizun
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Just got my amended T5 in the mail.
Hopefully they will change the copy on the CRA site as well.
One reason I wait til April to do my taxes...mistakes and changes do happen.

April 20, 2021
2:27 pm
HISAhopper
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savemoresaveoften said

HISAhopper said

I did not sign on to this "shares" thing that they created themselves.

You did sign up for that when you became a member and be included as part of the profit sharing.
In general, most dont complain when they receive free money basically. But yes the timing of tax vs when you can cash out can be annoying to some.
On the other hand, it has the same effect of having a 5yr GIC and have the interest payable at maturity so it accrues at the GIC rate. You still have to report the interest in your T5 each year and pay tax each year even tho you dont actually receive that money 5 years later.  

I might have signed on to it but can I say no to it at the time it was just opened by DUCA? or I had no choice but to take everything thrown at me?

April 20, 2021
4:38 pm
GR
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The revised T5 from Duca received late has the word "AMENDED" in tiny letters, which is easy to miss. Members and their tax filers should be cautious that interest shown in BOTH the original T5 and amended T5 are not reported for income tax purposes. I believe that it would have been appropriate for Duca to enclose a note of apology and explanation with the amended T5, in addition to their email of March 30th. Their error means that members who already filed must now re-file or submit an amendment.

April 20, 2021
5:35 pm
Taxpayer717
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Hi everyone. Attached is my statement from the Duca website showing correction under the Class A Bonus share.

Can anyone help me to figure out what is the amount that I have to report due to the Duca's failure of inclusion? Is this the 21.00 or 45.00 dollars? I will be grateful for any help. sf-smile Taxpayer 717From-the-monthly-Duca-statment.png

April 20, 2021
5:37 pm
Loonie
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GR said
The revised T5 from Duca received late has the word "AMENDED" in tiny letters, which is easy to miss. Members and their tax filers should be cautious that interest shown in BOTH the original T5 and amended T5 are not reported for income tax purposes.  

I'm not following you, GR. Mine hasn't arrived yet, but I would anticipate that the amended T5 would show, in Box 13, the total of earned interest plus new Class A shares in 2020, and that it would all be taxable. This is how it was the previous year.
Are you saying that is not the case? If not, why not?

I agree that they owe us a full explanation and apology.

Lord knows what they are going to do with next year's T5s as I find the current year's statements even more confusing!

April 20, 2021
7:57 pm
GR
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Taxpayer717 - For the 2020 T5, look at the Class A bonus shares posted in 2020, not 2021; probably in January 2020.

Loonie - No confusion. Box 13 in the amended T5 shows the total of interest earned in 2020 plus the bonus shares posted in January 2020. My concern is that some people or their tax filers might report the amounts in Box 13 added together from BOTH T5s, not just from one T5, assuming in error that the taxpayer's income is the sum of the two T5s.

April 20, 2021
10:14 pm
Loonie
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Thanks, GR. We are agreed, then.

April 21, 2021
5:56 am
savemoresaveoften
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The dividend for 2019 showed up in Dec 2019 statement, with a posting date of Jan 1, 2020.
The dividend for 2020 was not posted until the Mar 2021 statement, and looks like they split it into 2 accounts (at least for me).

It would be much more helpful if they just upload the amended T5 online first instead of focusing on snail mail, and then online...

April 21, 2021
7:10 am
COIN
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GR said
Taxpayer717 -
My concern is that some people or their tax filers might report the amounts in Box 13 added together from BOTH T5s, not just from one T5, assuming in error that the taxpayer's income is the sum of the two T5s.  

Your concern is valid. Also, I think the CRA computers don't distinguish between an original and an amended T5 and will simply sum the two T5's and tax you on both. This actually happened to me a few years ago when another institution also issued two T5's.

The amended T5 should have showed only the top-up amount to avoid mass confusion.

April 21, 2021
9:51 am
Bud
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The bonus was for 2020 paid out when in 2021?

April 21, 2021
11:15 am
savemoresaveoften
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Bud said
The bonus was for 2020 paid out when in 2021?  

I see it paid out in my Mar 2021 statement. Previous year it was Dec 31, and they sent out the proper T5 in Jan.

The funny thing is now that I received the amended T5, the difference in box13 is NOT the difference in what they added to my account in the Mar statement. The amended amount on the T5 is more, go figure.
Anyway will use whatever they amended for my tax filing.
Chances are the amended version wont be uploaded by CRA for at least a month so will see what kind of mess it creates...

April 21, 2021
2:26 pm
GR
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savemoresaveoften said

I see it paid out in my Mar 2021 statement. Previous year it was Dec 31, and they sent out the proper T5 in Jan.

The funny thing is now that I received the amended T5, the difference in box13 is NOT the difference in what they added to my account in the Mar statement. The amended amount on the T5 is more, go figure.
Anyway will use whatever they amended for my tax filing.
Chances are the amended version wont be uploaded by CRA for at least a month so will see what kind of mess it creates...  

As I stated in my post 29 above, I believe the additional amount on the amended T5 for 2020 should match the amount Duca posted in January 2020 as a dividend in the Class A bonus shares account.

April 21, 2021
4:38 pm
Bud
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Taxpayer717 said
Hi everyone. Attached is my statement from the Duca website showing correction under the Class A Bonus share.

Can anyone help me to figure out what is the amount that I have to report due to the Duca's failure of inclusion? Is this the 21.00 or 45.00 dollars? I will be grateful for any help. sf-smile Taxpayer 717From-the-monthly-Duca-statment.png  

Same reversed can someone explain why they send out a revised Tslip including March 1/21 dividend even though its reversed?

April 21, 2021
7:45 pm
Loonie
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savemoresaveoften said

I see it paid out in my Mar 2021 statement. Previous year it was Dec 31, and they sent out the proper T5 in Jan.

The funny thing is now that I received the amended T5, the difference in box13 is NOT the difference in what they added to my account in the Mar statement. The amended amount on the T5 is more, go figure.
Anyway will use whatever they amended for my tax filing.
Chances are the amended version wont be uploaded by CRA for at least a month so will see what kind of mess it creates...  

My statement for Dec 2019 doesn't show any deposits for Class A shares, but it does show a deposit in January 2020. That is the one that should be included in your amended T5 for 2020.

The deposits in March 2021 should be included in the T5 for 2021, which should arrive in early 2022.

I too have a series of transactions on 01 March 2021 which I can't understand!
For the Class A Shares account, it shows a patronage deposit followed by a withdrawal in the same amount, plus a dividend deposit of $1.00, for a net gain of $1.00
In the "Feel Free" Savings account, it shows a deposit followed by a withdrawal in the same amount for Class A Share Dividends (a different amount than any above). This is followed by a deposit, "Dividend Patronage", in the same amount as was deposited and then withdrawn from the Class A Shares account, for a net gain to the Feel Free account in an amount similar to that received in January 2020 in the Class A Shares account.
All of these transactions were posted March 1.
So, the net result seems similar to last year, but with only $1.00 going into Class A Shares, and the majority going into the Fee Free savings account instead of all going into Class A Shares.
I have no idea why. I am wondering if this means that the extra is now accessible since it is in the savings account. The Class A Shares earned and deposited in 2020 and 2019 remain in the Class A Shares account , where you must wait to access them.
None of this makes much sense to me. In searching through old emails and 2020 Annual Report, I haven't found any info from DUCA which would explain it or any mention of the awarding of Class A Shares/Dividends/Patronage in 2020 calendar year.

April 22, 2021
2:47 am
savemoresaveoften
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GR said

As I stated in my post 29 above, I believe the additional amount on the amended T5 for 2020 should match the amount Duca posted in January 2020 as a dividend in the Class A bonus shares account.  

You are absolutely correct. Dug up my Dec 2019 statement where I can see a deposit dated Jan 1, 2020. That amount is exactly the amended difference.

For Loonie:
I would imagine the mysterious amount you see in your daily fee savings acct is the vetted portion of the bonus share. As I mentioned, I was given a daylight savings acct and I am able to access that fund. I have no clue how and when I earned that funds other than my probable explanation. Its free money so wont complain 🙂

April 22, 2021
4:14 am
Loonie
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How will we ever know if our T5 is correct next year? I have no idea! sf-confused
I like the free money too, but will do without it happily if it continues to cause me problems! Our accountant is not pleased and seems annoyed with ME because I insisted it not be counted as an eligible dividend. If he doesn't understand how CUs work by now, it's time he learned and was gracious about it. Will be looking for a new accountant.

April 22, 2021
4:59 am
savemoresaveoften
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Loonie said
How will we ever know if our T5 is correct next year? I have no idea! sf-confused
I like the free money too, but will do without it happily if it continues to cause me problems! Our accountant is not pleased and seems annoyed with ME because I insisted it not be counted as an eligible dividend. If he doesn't understand how CUs work by now, it's time he learned and was gracious about it. Will be looking for a new accountant.  

Sounds like ur accountant is quite incompetent, esp if his specialty is supposed to be taxation.

Also not knowing how complicated ur tax return is, but unless u are self employed, has rental income or qualify for special allowances, tax software does a good job and much cheaper than an accountant.

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