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MasterCard No Fee Cash Back and Costco Purchases
June 11, 2020
6:09 pm
savemoresaveoften
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GICinvestor said

So who is the winner Capital One or you???? Time to reassess and look for a no fee cash back?  

best no fee cash back I see is around 1% which is not attractive in my opinion.

Capital One is the winner for all non groceries purchase and the $20 annual fee is basically $1k purchase a year to break even, which isnt too hard (Car and house insurance alone) pays for that and I am ahead already compared to a no fee 1%.

June 11, 2020
6:31 pm
GICinvestor
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savemoresaveoften said

best no fee cash back I see is around 1% which is not attractive in my opinion.

Capital One is the winner for all non groceries purchase and the $20 annual fee is basically $1k purchase a year to break even, which isnt too hard (Car and house insurance alone) pays for that and I am ahead already compared to a no fee 1%.  

Didn't you say: A grandfather Capital One which is 2% everything. $120 fee a year but gives me $100 back in rebate each year. Oops I guess I do pay $20 a year fee haha

You pay $120, get back $100, leaves Capital One $20 ahead. Did I miss something?
A no fee any cash back % would leave you ahead compared to what you said, wouldn't it?

June 11, 2020
7:18 pm
Jon
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GICinvestor said

Didn't you say: A grandfather Capital One which is 2% everything. $120 fee a year but gives me $100 back in rebate each year. Oops I guess I do pay $20 a year fee haha

You pay $120, get back $100, leaves Capital One $20 ahead. Did I miss something?
A no fee any cash back % would leave you ahead compared to what you said, wouldn't it?  

This is not true, if you spend enough money, and if you spend your money in "other" category most of the time, you can still come out way ahead of any no fee card compare with this grandfathered card.

There isn't a no fee CC that give 2% cashback reward universally in Canada at the moment. I don't even think we have a CC with fees that can give this type of reward.

However, if you tend to spend your money is certain things, like grocery for example, it maybe worthwhile to look for card that give the best reward in this category. In my case, a 5% reward from food (grocery included) from my Amex cobalt, along my 2% reward from RBC cashback in grocery do the job. When I am able to work full time again, I am switching my Amex Cobalt to Scotia Gold Amex , as it give me better reward on gas (3% v.s 2%) while keeping the same reward on grocery. I am also switching my RBC card (back) to BMO cashback as it give better reward on grocery (3% v.s 2%) due to recent change in BMO cashback's reward scheme.

Like many people here say, this is a personal thing that depends on your spending habit.

Correction: The Amex cashback Preferred, and Brim World Elite does give 2% universally, but it cost 99 dollars, and 199 dollars (after first year) a year respectively.

June 11, 2020
7:21 pm
GICinvestor
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Excuse me.......wwhhaatt did I say that was not true?

June 11, 2020
7:22 pm
Jon
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GICinvestor said
Excuse me.......wwhhaatt did I say that was not true?  

"A no fee any cash back % would leave you ahead compared to what you said, wouldn't it?" - This statement is decisively false, as I had explained.

June 11, 2020
7:35 pm
GICinvestor
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If you actually read what I said and what it pertained to....I am NOT incorrect or making an untrue statement.

June 11, 2020
7:43 pm
Jon
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GICinvestor said
If you actually read what I said and what it pertained to....I am NOT incorrect or making an untrue statement.  

With all due respect, your statement is incorrect.
A 1 % cash back CC in math equation is 0.01X, where X is the amount spend
A 2% cash back CC in math equation is 0.02X - 20.

Assuming you spend $5000 (X = 5000) a year, a 1% cash back give you 50 dollars, while a 2% cash back with 20 dollars fee give you 80 dollars.

June 11, 2020
7:48 pm
GICinvestor
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This is what savemoresaveoften said.
A grandfather Capital One which is 2% everything. $120 fee a year but gives me $100 back in rebate each year. Oops I guess I do pay $20 a year fee haha

This was my response to savemoresaveoften
You pay $120, get back $100, leaves Capital One $20 ahead. Did I miss something?
A no fee any cash back % would leave you ahead compared to what you said, wouldn't it?

Jon, this was your rude response.
This is not true, if you spend enough money, and if you spend your money in "other" category most of the time, you can still come out way ahead of any no fee card compare with this grandfathered card.

June 11, 2020
7:58 pm
cruzinalong
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Compare with 1% cashback. Spend $12,000 annually. Get 2% $240 back. Pay $120 annual fee. You need to spend $12,000 on both cards to be the same. I generally considered spending $24,000 plus to make it worthwhile to pay an annual fee. Not the solution for many people.

June 11, 2020
8:22 pm
Jon
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GICinvestor, I know it is hurtful to be point out that you are wrong because I feel the same sometimes. However, with due respect, I stand behind what I have said.

If you have the need to spend significant amount of money (a large family, high income individuals etc.), you can be ahead if you use a CC with fee. However, if you are frugal (which I assume you are in light of your respond), or if you are looking for a spare CC, a CC with fee is not worth it.

In respond to your accusation of me being rude, I only try to point out a fallacy in your thinking, and I back it up with 2 simple math equations. Could I be more refine, and not point out that you are wrong in a direct fashion? Yes, I can, but this is irreverent to my point.

If you have any further comment, you can sent me a private message.

cruzinalong, the trick for a fee base CC to be worthwhile is to ensure you are using the CC on spending that you are going to make anyway, instead of trying to spend more money in an attempt to earn more cashback, this require discipline (and not everyone have that).

June 11, 2020
9:16 pm
Yatti420
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I refuse to pay fees.. Ive had the same setup for years and rarely look for changes.. Find something that works.. and religiously stick to it and you will maxamize your savings / earnigs..

1. Tangerine No Fee (2% - 3 Categories (Drug Store/Gas/Bill Payment) used for any big Canna Purchases / Gas and Recurring Bills (Aslong as they show up as such under Tangerines' System). This card is paying me out monthly to Savings. #TRBB

2. Amex No Fee 1.5% on all. Use where I can etc. You cannot redeem rewards manually.. It happens automatically annually..

3. Capital One No-Fee Travel Version (1000-2000 pts per year) Redeem it via cheque wherever you want.. Or Credit etc.. Backup / Once in blue moon stuff.. This card pays out so I use it occasionally for fun stuff etc..

4. Old TD Card got converted to cashback I think (Never really ever use it - just keep it active)..

Spread the joy out. Alternate due dates for the cards for best and easiest cycling.. EZ!

June 11, 2020
10:09 pm
Save2Retire@55
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Here my cards. I get confused so I have this noted on my phone. The cards and what I use them for are listed here.

Grocery (Except Wal-Mart):
TD Visa Infinite Cash Back 3%
Canadian Tire World Elite Triangle 3%
Grocery Wal-Mart: MBNA Smart Cash MC 2%

Gas TD: 3% ALL
Gas Canadian Tire: Canadian Tire 5 cents
Gas all except Canadian Tire: MBNA 2%

Everything else (Electronics, Travel, Car, etc): Rogers 1.5%
All Others TD: 1%

Every USD Transaction: Rogers 3%-2.5%
All foreign except US: Brim 1%

TD is a fee card. I got it for its promotion. 10% on everything up to 2000 in spending ($200) for the first 3 months and rebate fees. Will cancel before the charge kicks in.

Others are all free but need high income (Except MBNA).

I am one of those promotion hunters. Usually 2 cards a year. What's wrong with another $400-$600 free money a year?

June 12, 2020
7:46 am
savemoresaveoften
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GICinvestor said

Didn't you say: A grandfather Capital One which is 2% everything. $120 fee a year but gives me $100 back in rebate each year. Oops I guess I do pay $20 a year fee haha

You pay $120, get back $100, leaves Capital One $20 ahead. Did I miss something?
A no fee any cash back % would leave you ahead compared to what you said, wouldn't it?  

What you said is only true if I spend less than $2000 a year on my capital one card. $2k is the break even point compare 2% less $20 vs 1% no fee.
From your statement, you seem to think I am worse off $20. That is only true if I don't use the card at all, but then why even worry about which card to get to begin with....

Others have replied to you as well and point out the flaws in your statement. I did also mentioned I charged my auto and home insurance to the card and you can rest assure its more than $2k a year.

If you can find me a true no fee card that pays 2% on all purchases, I will switch in a heart beat sf-cool

June 12, 2020
10:15 am
cruzinalong
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Save2Retire@55 said
Here my cards. I get confused so I have this noted on my phone. The cards and what I use them for are listed here.

Grocery (Except Wal-Mart):
TD Visa Infinite Cash Back 3%
Canadian Tire World Elite Triangle 3%
Grocery Wal-Mart: MBNA Smart Cash MC 2%

Gas TD: 3% ALL
Gas Canadian Tire: Canadian Tire 5 cents
Gas all except Canadian Tire: MBNA 2%

Everything else (Electronics, Travel, Car, etc): Rogers 1.5%
All Others TD: 1%

Every USD Transaction: Rogers 3%-2.5%
All foreign except US: Brim 1%

TD is a fee card. I got it for its promotion. 10% on everything up to 2000 in spending ($200) for the first 3 months and rebate fees. Will cancel before the charge kicks in.

Others are all free but need high income (Except MBNA).

I am one of those promotion hunters. Usually 2 cards a year. What's wrong with another $400-$600 free money a year?  

I can see how juggling credit cards get you MORE. Depends how confusing it is. I am happy using one CC. Enjoy the summer.

June 12, 2020
4:48 pm
Save2Retire@55
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cruzinalong said

I can see how juggling credit cards get you MORE. Depends how confusing it is. I am happy using one CC. Enjoy the summer.  

Yes, it gets confusing but now I only use TD or Rogers. TD for Grocery / Gas. Rogers for everything else. When I cancel my TD, I will have to make a decision and get another card.

For me, it is NOT just about $$ it is about the benefits. For example, my Canadian Tire World Elite MC once saved me from a dead battery in a freezing cold winter day. Basically that's included for free in the card.
Rogers World Elite I use for Rental Car CDW insurance outside Canada. Also because they had the great 4% return (not anymore) on FX, it was great to have it.
MBNA is my oldest CC now. I got mad at Scotiabank years ago and cancelled my first ever CC. Who cares! So this CC was the 2nd card about 8 years ago and I don't want to cancel it.
I usually don't keep more than 5 cards at a time. I cancelled a card 3 months ago and then got both Brim and TD at the same time.

You too 🙂 Stay Safe.

June 25, 2020
10:18 pm
youngAndhungry
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hi all, was just curious. I also have the BMO 1% cashback on everything no annual fees and spoke with a representative that told me the only way I can get the 5% welcome bonus was if I opened up a new account with them. so my question goes how many credit cards is too many? I only have the one currently and do not have any outstanding debt nor do I plan on it. My question is if I hold, let's say, 5 cards will that affect my credit score at all?

June 26, 2020
6:48 am
Londonguy
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youngAndhungry said
hi all, was just curious. I also have the BMO 1% cashback on everything no annual fees and spoke with a representative that told me the only way I can get the 5% welcome bonus was if I opened up a new account with them. so my question goes how many credit cards is too many? I only have the one currently and do not have any outstanding debt nor do I plan on it. My question is if I hold, let's say, 5 cards will that affect my credit score at all?  

If you always pay your bills on time, having 5 cards (your example) will actually enlarge your credit history and eventually improve your score. Just don't apply for all 5 at once -- we're talking over a few years, not weeks

June 26, 2020
7:12 am
Nehpets
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youngAndhungry said
....I also have the BMO 1% cashback on everything no annual fees >blockquote>

You may want to check your BMO card current terms and conditions because BMO recently modified the cashback offer to 3% on groceries* and 0.5% on everything else.

* (classified by Mastercard’s “Merchant Category Code” as “grocery stores and supermarkets” MCC 5411) which in Canada includes Walmart Superstores

FYI List of MCC5411 merchants

This may be the time to find a suitable card for "everything else".

Stephen

June 26, 2020
11:02 am
youngAndhungry
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Londonguy said

If you always pay your bills on time, having 5 cards (your example) will actually enlarge your credit history and eventually improve your score. Just don't apply for all 5 at once -- we're talking over a few years, not weeks  

perfect! then my next question after reading this discussion is does anyone have the American Express simply cashback credit card with no annual fees? it gives 3% cashback for the first 3 months (up to $150) then goes down to 1.25% after.

The only reason I prefer a cashback credit card with the highest percentage is because most of my purchases are online. I am a big amazon, ebay, aliexpress purchaser so I'm basically looking for a card that just gives the most percentage back for all purchases. My goal is to eventually build up my CCs after a couple of years to hold a different card for whatever situation.

I appreciate the advice everyone!

P.S I'm in Canada so I dont know if the American Express is best here since I've been to some establishments that dont except it

June 26, 2020
11:38 am
Norman1
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youngAndhungry said

P.S I'm in Canada so I dont know if the American Express is best here since I've been to some establishments that dont except it

AMEX has higher merchant fees than MasterCard or Visa. That's how AMEX is able to offer better rewards and benefits to the cardholders!

Merchants who have substantial business clientele, like hotels and airlines, will accept AMEX. AMEX is popular in the corporate world and many companies require expenses to be charged to their corporate AMEX card.

However, merchants are not keen on the higher fees. So, an out-of-the-way local restaurant or specialty store, that doesn't get much business clientele, may decide that AMEX isn't worth those higher fees.

I've had dentist offices refuse AMEX for payment. Merchants like that know they won't lose any sales from not accepting AMEX.

The previous discussion How AMEX lost Costco has some history about what happened with AMEX and Costco.

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