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Home Trust Visa - Declined
April 20, 2018
4:58 pm
Save2Retire@55
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Ok. As expected ...
Applied on Feb 20.
Called 3 weeks ago. The agent said the processing hasn't started and I will get an email when they process it.
Called today to cancel the application. The agent told me It is already being processed with hard credit card cheque.
I said there is no point to cancel. Then she said it is Declined on April 2nd.
I didn't receive any call or email. Not even a letter to say it was declined.
Asked the agent for the reason. She spent couple minutes digging. Came back saying unfortunately it doesn't give her any reason.

No reason is a good reason I suppose.

Glad I applied and received my Fido couple weeks ago. That card took 10 business days from application to rceiving.

PS. My score is dropped from around 820 to 780. Two credit cards hard check plus cancelling AMEX (After getting 30K aeroplan points I am going to use to travel to the true North of the true North)!
The score will come back up in couple months and the game continues.

April 20, 2018
8:03 pm
Loonie
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So, they declined you before Rogers approved you?
I could almost understand the decline if they knew you'd just gotten another new card, but seems they didn't know.
You ought to have been informed long before now!

Thanks for keeping us informed of your "progress".

April 20, 2018
8:16 pm
User230
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Save2Retire@55 said
Ok. As expected ...
Applied on Feb 20.
Called 3 weeks ago. The agent said the processing hasn't started and I will get an email when they process it.
Called today to cancel the application. The agent told me It is already being processed with hard credit card cheque.
I said there is no point to cancel. Then she said it is Declined on April 2nd.
I didn't receive any call or email. Not even a letter to say it was declined.
Asked the agent for the reason. She spent couple minutes digging. Came back saying unfortunately it doesn't give her any reason.

No reason is a good reason I suppose.

This card has no tap, no ability to change ones PIN, 10 transactions a month and bad customer service. You're not missing much not getting this card.
Glad I applied and received my Fido couple weeks ago. That card took 10 business days from application to rceiving.

PS. My score is dropped from around 820 to 780. Two credit cards hard check plus cancelling AMEX (After getting 30K aeroplan points I am going to use to travel to the true North of the true North)!
The score will come back up in couple months and the game continues.  

It has no tap, it lacks the ability to change pins, it has a limit of 10 transactions a month and bad customer service. You're not missing much.

April 20, 2018
8:43 pm
Save2Retire@55
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Loonie said
So, they declined you before Rogers approved you?
I could almost understand the decline if they knew you'd just gotten another new card, but seems they didn't know.
You ought to have been informed long before now!

Thanks for keeping us informed of your "progress".  

I got the approval email for my Fido on April 5th. Considering the actual approval date was 3 days earlier, it would have been April 2nd (same day of Home's decline). I don't know if they can see the report on the same day ... Fido approves April 2nd @ 10:00 AM. Home checks and sees the Fido approval and declines at 11:00 AM!

April 20, 2018
8:47 pm
Save2Retire@55
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User230 said

It has no tap, it lacks the ability to change pins, it has a limit of 10 transactions a month and bad customer service. You're not missing much.  

I really wanted to cancel to avoid another hit on my credit ...

After this trip, I'll cancel my Scotia Gold (got the $300 in bonus points and already used it), wait couple months, and then apply for the new Rogers card (or hopefully something better comes out).

April 20, 2018
8:53 pm
User230
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Save2Retire@55 said

I really wanted to cancel to avoid another hit on my credit ...

After this trip, I'll cancel my Scotia Gold (got the $300 in bonus points and already used it), wait couple months, and then apply for the new Rogers card (or hopefully something better comes out).  

If you have Fido master card you can upgrade without a credit hit. Just phone them. You must say you make over 80,000 or have a household income of 150,000 or its a no go. They randomly select to verify your income they said. You can spend over 2100 a month for 6 months also. But just saying you will spend over 2100 a month doesn't seem to work very often.

Household to them is everyone in the house (not just your partner).

It's unlikely they would force the household members to turn over their T4s. They will ask for yours possibly. It's unlikely from my understanding.

Where it can come into play is, if you lie the insurances of the card can be seen as invalid. The records could be turned over to the government. It could show a tendency of lying in court cases. It is considered fraud to lie about income.

April 20, 2018
10:09 pm
Save2Retire@55
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User230 said

If you have Fido master card you can upgrade without a credit hit. Just phone them. You must say you make over 80,000 or have a household income of 150,000 or its a no go. They randomly select to verify your income they said. You can spend over 2100 a month for 6 months also. But just saying you will spend over 2100 a month doesn't seem to work very often.

Household to them is everyone in the house (not just your partner).

It's unlikely they would force the household members to turn over their T4s. They will ask for yours possibly. It's unlikely from my understanding.

Where it can come into play is, if you lie the insurances of the card can be seen as invalid. The records could be turned over to the government. It could show a tendency of lying in court cases. It is considered fraud to lie about income.  

I didn't understand the 2100 a month. Should I tell them I am going to spend 2100/month on their card to get approved?

$80K/year is not a problem and I can prove if they want. No need to lie or anything. I HATE fraud!

April 21, 2018
11:39 am
User230
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They don't care. They need to see a spend of 2100. You can say you spend that though it sometimes works. Not often.

If you say you have household income over 150,000 or over 80,000 personal income they will upgrade you.

They might ask what you do or the incomes of the people in the household. They don't verify at that point. They may latter on.

As I mentioned before, it's better not to lie about things like this.

April 21, 2018
2:29 pm
Loonie
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So, just to be clear, are you saying that if you are already spending at least 2100 on your credit card monthly, that this will be sufficient to convince them to give you the upgrade, regardless of income?
Would they need to see you actually spending it on their lower-level card or would they want to see your statement from another card?
If this written anywhere?

April 21, 2018
2:36 pm
Save2Retire@55
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User230 said

As I mentioned before, it's better not to lie about things like this.  

Thanks for your advise even though the number 2100 doesn't really make sense to me. Not sure where you got it from.

Also, can you please don't mention this "lie" thing again? I feel, I said I am going to lie about the income and you keep telling me it is not a good idea.

And the application I had for the Fido card had all my updated information which I will be using for the new card.

April 21, 2018
3:43 pm
User230
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People often phone in and ask about the new card. The consensus is:

80k Annual income or 25k spend a year (must have had previous Rodgers card with proof of 25k yearly spend) - credit_card_nerd, reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/85wxkp/new_rogers_world_elite_mastercard/

Just stating the consequences. I have no idea if you qualify or not. It's up to each of us to see if we qualify or not.

April 21, 2018
3:47 pm
User230
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Loonie said
So, just to be clear, are you saying that if you are already spending at least 2100 on your credit card monthly, that this will be sufficient to convince them to give you the upgrade, regardless of income?
Would they need to see you actually spending it on their lower-level card or would they want to see your statement from another card?
If this written anywhere?  

Most on RFD and Reddit say 2100 a month for 6 months. That is also what a agent said to me. Works out to 25000 a year roughly.

Yes, regardless of income requirments or family income requirments one can get this card by having a 2100 a monthly spend (not a average over 6 months) over a 6 month period (at least, meaning they still might reject or not extend a offer, it doesn't automatically qualify, just that they would consider you).

No it's not written anywhere, I looked. You need to phone in and ask about it.

To me the agent said they dont care about spending on other cards only their card.

April 21, 2018
3:53 pm
Loonie
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Thanks for the extra info.

April 21, 2018
4:09 pm
Top It Up
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It's absolutely no wonder I only change/upgrade my credit cards with the same bank I've dealt with for the past 40 years - this running around looking for the "best" CCs is a real schemozzle.

April 21, 2018
6:20 pm
Save2Retire@55
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Top It Up said
It's absolutely no wonder I only change/upgrade my credit cards with the same bank I've dealt with for the past 40 years - this running around looking for the "best" CCs is a real schemozzle.  

Not really. I got 2 Amex cards couple months ago which gave me 60000 in points. 30000 went as $300 credit and another 30000 will be used for 2 round trip flights to Northern Canada (The flight cost is more than $2000).

So yeah, it is not about using the same bank. It is about getting the best deal. I never had hope on this card and I never got declined a card before.

April 21, 2018
6:21 pm
Save2Retire@55
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User230 said
People often phone in and ask about the new card. The consensus is:

80k Annual income or 25k spend a year (must have had previous Rodgers card with proof of 25k yearly spend) - credit_card_nerd, reddit

Just stating the consequences. I have no idea if you qualify or not. It's up to each of us to see if we qualify or not.  

Thanks for the info. I will call them after my return from the trip. They will be happy to see my $5K+ spending in less than a month, LOL

April 21, 2018
7:47 pm
Norman1
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User230 said

No it's not written anywhere, I looked. You need to phone in and ask about it.

To me the agent said they dont care about spending on other cards only their card.  

The income/spending requirements are set by MasterCard Canada for all the World Elite MasterCards issued in Canada: GreedyRate$: MasterCard Increases Minimum Income Requirement On All World Elite Credit Cards

Essentially, it is to thwart card issuers who would try to upgrade all their ordinary MasterCards to World MasterCards or World Elite MasterCards in order to collect the higher interchange from merchants.

On a electronic transaction with an ordinary MasterCard, the issuer collects 1.44% interchange from the merchant. For a World Elite MasterCard, the interchange jumps to 2.06%. That's 43% more!

April 22, 2018
3:09 am
Loonie
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thanks, Norman.

It appears, then, that a spending minimum is an alternative criterion which is acceptable to MC: "shall only be given to a well-defined class of cardholders based on individual spending and/or income thresholds."

While the minimum income is stated, the spending threshold is not, leaving us to wonder if it is at the discretion of the individual card issuer.
If you only use this card for travel, it could be difficult to establish a pattern of spending a minimum amount every month.

Since these limits are coming from MC and Visa, it may explain why Amex is able to often offer better deals, i.e.high rewards with low minimum incomes. I have often wondered about that. I guess the government isn't interested in them for some reason. Perhaps they are a much smaller player, especially with a more limited selection of merchants.

April 22, 2018
6:58 am
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The real downside to Amex cards, particularly in Europe, are the high POS charges that that Amex levels against merchants, resulting in merchant loathing and their reluctance to accept the cards, if at all.

April 22, 2018
8:21 am
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Save2Retire@55 said

Not really. I got 2 Amex cards couple months ago which gave me 60000 in points. 30000 went as $300 credit and another 30000 will be used for 2 round trip flights to Northern Canada (The flight cost is more than $2000).  

I was rummaging through the internet to get a handle on converting Amex points/credit into actual travel. While it was somewhat clear on the Amex website it was less so on Scotiabank's Travel Rewards Centre, mostly because you had to log in to an account to proceed.

I was most interested in whether the points/credit can be used toward Premium Economy/Business Class and the Amex site, I think, indicated NO - but maybe the workaround to that is transferring the points to Aeroplan (if possible), for the greater flexibility of use.

I always look for ease of use through fewer barriers.

------------------------------------

As for the northern Canada trip - the only short-haul option is to Iqaluit - with limited Aeroplan seats per flight. I think it's a great option for those living in Ottawa/Montreal while factoring in decent accommodation with rates north of $200/night. For other Canadians, not so much.

https://www.city.iqaluit.nu.ca/sites/default/files/2016_iqaluit_visitors_guide.pdf

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