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Your opinions please. Elderly 70 and over. Paper Bills and Paper Financial Statements
October 18, 2025
11:12 am
CAD
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AltaRed said
Re post #57, there are plenty of easy-to-use and inexpensive tablets available on the market for $100-150, and there are low cost internet options such as https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/connecting-families/en if one qualifies.  

If you can explain me HOW can one live on those amounts, please.
Even if you live under the bridge there is NO way to survive on these amounts...
So all this 'government help' is plain BS.

2. Seniors
Seniors that are eligible for the CFI meet one of the following criteria:
They receive the maximum amount of the Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS), as determined by the Guaranteed Income Supplement Estimator; or,
They are single with an annual income of less than $4,000, and also qualify for the Old Age Security (OAS) program; or,
They are in a couple with a combined annual income of less than $8,000, and also qualify for the OAS program.

October 18, 2025
11:31 am
smayer97
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mordko said
...

As luck would have it, someone did a calculation. An email with an attachment generates up to 50g of CO2e. Without attachment its just 4g. A letter generates 205g of CO2e. So, you are definitely destroying the planet much faster when you are using snail mail.  

Does not take into account the lifecycle of digital format. Making and delivering paper is a one time expense. Digital format requires use of electronics to generate, distribute, access, view, reconcile (for financial records), preserve i.e. electronic backups, for the life of that file (min 7 years for tax purposes). And it forces habits that require electronics to be run a lot more for all the above behaviours, e.g. keep them on 24/7, unlike in the past.

Too much false comparisons because too many drink the coolaid. Might as well say that the presence of humans is destroying the planet (and some actually do, with depopulation agendas). Let's not be so duped.

October 18, 2025
11:36 am
smayer97
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itsme said

Your statement reminds me of an article I read which said producing an electric car battery makes more pollution than one gasoline powered car on the road.

Sitting behind a computer screen makes one think that it's all clean and efficient but it takes an enormous amount of energy to keep things online and running. Anyway this thread has gotten way off topic.  

yah, this!

October 18, 2025
12:10 pm
AltaRed
BC Interior
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CAD said
If you can explain me HOW can one live on those amounts, please.
Even if you live under the bridge there is NO way to survive on these amounts...
So all this 'government help' is plain BS.  

I have no reason nor purpose to explain. I know nothing of the government program which appears to be directed to the very few at the bottom. I linked it (and the alternative of $29/month for BC residents) to show that no one has to pay $70-100 for a Gigabyte plan inferred by post #57.

Folks need to get their heads out of the ditches and recognize there are workable economic solutions for what is the future.

October 18, 2025
12:25 pm
RetirEd
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CAD and AltaRed: That low-cost internet program is:
1. voluntary on the part of the ISPs
2. capped at a fixed number of recipients set by the ISPs (and is always full)

savemoresaveoften: What one prints for oneself is of limited credibility. Look at all the faked images on line! We still mostly have printers, though I was recently been given one by someone who has sworn off paper forever. I won't return it if they don't figure out in three months they still need it!

mordko: I said:

employees working at private liquor stores here in B.C. get paid less and do more. Is that a good thing for our society? More income inequality?

HermanH: said:

Yes, it is a good thing to improve productivity. The very definition of productivity is to do more with the same level of resources.

and

That is incorrect. That productivity benefit will be divided between the owners, management, and workers through bonuses, dividends, and raises. No single group will garner all the benefits, but they certainly will not gain equally.

I reply: That's just silly. The lower-paid workers gain nothing and lose pay.

So, mordko, you are, I think, agreeing with me:

Lowering pay does not increase productivity. I would expect it to lower productivity due to poor morale.

RetirEd

October 18, 2025
1:37 pm
cgouimet
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AltaRed said

I have no reason nor purpose to explain. I know nothing of the government program which appears to be directed to the very few at the bottom. I linked it (and the alternative of $29/month for BC residents) to show that no one has to pay $70-100 for a Gigabyte plan inferred by post #57.

Folks need to get their heads out of the ditches and recognize there are workable economic solutions for what is the future.  

On the bright side, a couple/family earning 8k/yr isn't worrying about all their financial statements...

CGO
October 18, 2025
1:57 pm
Norman1
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It is also likely not $4,000 or $8,000 per year of "Total imcome" (line 15000).

Government benefits are often qualified with "Net income before adjustments" (line 23400) or "Net Income" (line 23600).

October 18, 2025
2:06 pm
mordko
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employees working at private liquor stores here in B.C. get paid less and do more. Is that a good thing for our society? More income inequality?

I have no idea whether the assertion is supported by facts but the salary part is likely true because taxpayers and customers usually subsidize the pay of unqualified and overpaid workers in government run shops.

I do know that LCBO in Ontario offers poorer choice and higher prices than comparable shops in Britain. The system is also designed to hurt Canadian entrepreneurs and reduce competition, and that part its doing very well. While reducing pay to people reduces productivity, government running shops does the same thing at higher cost. Pay isn’t the only variable here.

October 19, 2025
10:20 am
Dean
Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia
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.
Meanwhile, back to the subject at hand . . .

It' just a matter of Time❗

    Dean

sf-cool " Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! " sf-cool

October 19, 2025
11:42 am
savemoresaveoften
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mordko said

Computers don’t run because of emails. There are much, much more important reasons for them. Like porn, chatrooms and AI.

As luck would have it, someone did a calculation. An email with an attachment generates up to 50g of CO2e. Without attachment its just 4g. A letter generates 205g of CO2e. So, you are definitely destroying the planet much faster when you are using snail mail.  

<br /

COIN said
"Snail mail paper statement is just bad for the environment, carbon footprint and all."

Do e-statements use energy and that energy has to be produced somehow?  

Your realize a snail mail paper statement is just an official printout of the e version that is produced regardless ?
So the snail mail paper statement is ADDING to the carbon footprint of the e version !

October 19, 2025
12:06 pm
Bill
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As long as our politicians and their families and entourages are happily flying all over the world for no compelling reason other than to enjoy the high life then I know climate emergency is fiction so I'm not concerned about my "carbon footprint", not even for one second.

I keep my statements in digital form (with a printed out summary spreadsheet updated monthly or so in case I die so that someone will know where all the money is today) only because that's how I like to do it.

October 19, 2025
1:13 pm
Norman1
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RetirEd said

savemoresaveoften: What one prints for oneself is of limited credibility. Look at all the faked images on line! …

There's nothing special about statements mailed by the financial institutions.

They are printed with ordinary ink on ordinary paper. They are not certificates printed with special ink on special paper with security features.

They were only secure decades ago because of the colour letterhead and how expensive colour printing was. Now, for under $800 at Staples or Best Buy, one can buy a colour laser printer that can replicate the colour and print details with a precision of 1/600 inch or better.

October 19, 2025
2:34 pm
doug
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RetirEd said
Doug: That's what Canada Post was before the creation of Canada Post Corporation and it was widely reported as "privatization," as with all crown corporations.

Canada Post was never privatized. That was just a change to its legal structure, when it was a government department headed by the Postmaster General. Should it go back to that status? Maybe, but we still need to implement some degree of restructuring and modernization, as the taxpayer is not limitless and cannot sustain endless level of unnecessary bureaucracy

employees working at private liquor stores here in B.C. get paid less and do more.

Is that a good thing for our society? More income inequality?  

That's what I am saying. Get rid of the private liquor stores by way of attrition. Besides, is making alcohol accessible on every street corner good for society? sf-cool

October 19, 2025
2:38 pm
doug
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AltaRed said
Productivity is simply GDP per capita and thus higher GDP generated at the least cost/hr is a good thing. Unfortunately, a lot of the time it means exploitation at low wages but that is far better for society than lower output per higher wage per hour.

If we really wanted to have highly productive liquor stores, they would be highly automated with zero employees except for a few well trained technicians to keep the automation up and running.

Too many Canadians, including politicians, seem to think well paid jobs are the secret sauce to prosperity, but they fail to recognize that only matters if those jobs are generating high output/GDP. Most civil servants fail the productivity test in spades. Canada continues to slide relative to its OECD peers.  

That's an illusory pipe dream. Not everyone is cut out for a PhD in mathematics and the sciences. Unless you're proposing universal basic income to sustain the populace to pursue creative endeavours, which I'd be in favour of, while automated robots, automation, and a handful of highly trained technicians and specialists sustain us, it won't work. It is, as I say, an illusory dream of the ivory tower economists and academic elite. sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

October 19, 2025
5:16 pm
COIN
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everhopeful said
Then there is further energy expended if the client doesn't pay online, either by mailing a cheque back across the country to the biller, or by (most likely) driving/bussing to a bank to pay at the teller window.

Even Canada Post itself seen the eventual future and created Epost at the turn of the millenium (and shuttered it in 2022 when it didn't gain traction). I think a service like that paired with a low cost internet plan (most seniors don't need gigabit home internet) with an easy to use tablet would make the transition a lot easier for a lot of folks.

In this era daily mail delivery is unsustainable, both economically and environmentaly. Any efforts to keep it is just kicking the can down the road to create an even bigger problem in the future.  

"driving/bussing to a bank to pay at the teller window"
I go to my bank via a manual bike. However, our car friendly Premier wants to eliminate bike lanes. He said bike lanes interfere with gas power vehicles.

October 19, 2025
6:57 pm
smayer97
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savemoresaveoften said

COIN said
"Snail mail paper statement is just bad for the environment, carbon footprint and all."

Do e-statements use energy and that energy has to be produced somehow?  

Your realize a snail mail paper statement is just an official printout of the e version that is produced regardless ?
So the snail mail paper statement is ADDING to the carbon footprint of the e version !  

And what does it take to preserve that eversion on all the computers that have to maintain it?

The force is microscopic on this one, hmmm?

October 19, 2025
8:55 pm
RetirEd
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savemoresaveoften:

Your realize a snail mail paper statement is just an official printout of the e version that is produced regardless ?

Not necessarily. The database is there, but why would they bother generating and storing the statement images whose profiles say they don't use E-banking?

Norman1: If one has a stack of historical statements printed by the bank, they will match the one in question in ways others can't.

doug: All those high-paid tech jobs depend on their ability to get rid of many other jobs.

And the more internet apps and data-hoarding services we have, the more will be skimmed out by the middlemen like delivery services, non-taxi skimmers and the like.

COIN: I walk to the bank. I need the exercise and the human contact with the staff.

ALSO: I heartily agree about how the booze-pushers are always claiming ANY liquor laws are "outdated" and "obsolete." And now restaurants and hotels are complaining that the liquor-sellers' strike is killing their business. but that's because they built their business on booze. It was only about a decade or two ago that BC eliminated the requirement to buy food for drinking in establishments licensed as restaurants. Meanwhile, the social and health costs of booze continue to rise, even though beer consumption is falling in the province.

After free trade killed off or sold off the Canadian beer manufacturers (I think one small one was saved in the end?) There was a rush to create all manner of "craft breweries," which have been shaking out and are nearly all gone. And they mostly can't maintain their taste and quality. That's why they have so many odd-flavoured beers on the market now - the brews don't have to taste like anything recognizable. Wheat straw and BBQ goat, anyone?

RetirEd

October 20, 2025
5:41 am
savemoresaveoften
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RetirEd said
savemoresaveoften:

Your realize a snail mail paper statement is just an official printout of the e version that is produced regardless ?

Not necessarily. The database is there, but why would they bother generating and storing the statement images whose profiles say they don't use E-banking?

The database is there, there is ZERO reason why they need to generate and store the statement images, and I am sure they dont.

@Smayer97, are you thinking the bank itself also store a paper copy so they dont need to run the computer to store the datebase etc ? OMG, ur thoughts are unique

October 20, 2025
6:47 am
mordko
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Retired: “After free trade killed off or sold off the Canadian beer manufacturers (I think one small one was saved in the end?) There was a rush to create all manner of "craft breweries," which have been shaking out and are nearly all gone. And they mostly can't maintain their taste and quality. That's why they have so many odd-flavoured beers on the market now - the brews don't have to taste like anything recognizable. Wheat straw and BBQ goat, anyone?”

This is accurate with the following caveats:

1. Far from being “wiped out,” Canadian brewing has thrived since the 1990s.

2. The Craft Beer sector exploded, not collaped. 1400 craft breweries, many, like steam whistle and Muskoka are exporting all over the world and winning awards.

3. Quality and diversity improved by a huge margin.

4. What we see is called consolidation with overall craft beers production increasing even while total beer consumption is declining.

October 20, 2025
7:45 am
Wrayzor
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I'll echo what mordko wrote about craft breweries and add:

They are alive and well all across the country. I was in Newfoundland recently and every town of 300 or more people seemed to have its own brewery. All of them produced quality products. And they create jobs and pay local workers - I'd bet far more people are working at breweries now than back when there were just the big 3 dominating the scene with a handful of large operations.

And wheat beer has been around since the invention of beer.

Off topic, I know. So I'll contribute - I receive a mix of paper and electronic statements/bills. I do like receiving paper for bills to serve as a reminder to pay (not my only reminder). But not getting the paper during the postal strike(s) was no hardship. If paper went away, it wouldn't bother me. And no, I don't believe that taxpayers should be funding the mailing of private enterprise's bills and financial statements.

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