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Email this11:28 pm
April 9, 2013
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Is anyone out there aware that Simplii doesn't treat deposits & withdrawals equitably?
I've always known since their PC days that they don't process transfers from other banks until after midnight the day they get initiated & don't get backdated, so you'd essentially lose a day when you transfer-in, but you'd naturally get it back when you transfer-out, but it's come to my att'n that they now deliberately backdate withdrawals, but not deposits, so you get the shaft both ways. Aren't the banking laws supposed to prevent those kinds of improprieties?
5:10 am
April 27, 2017
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It's an interesting anecdote. Their terms explicitly say that transactions might be backdated to the day when they actually took place. Weekend transactions can show on the next working day. We also know about the hold periods. I am a little dubious though that contributions and withdrawals are deliberately treated differently.
6:19 am
December 18, 2024
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It looks like they may have a “penny pinching” policy.
Like putting your thumb in the jigger.
7:32 am
April 6, 2013
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I've seen no evidence of inequitable treatment of deposits.
It is not unfair if pulls need to be scheduled next business day and the pre-authorized debit doesn't go out until then. The funds won't be debited from the linked external account until the next business day as well.
Simplii can post incoming direct deposits within two hours of the three cutoff times. So, Simplii doesn't need to backdate any incoming direct deposits.
7:53 am
September 30, 2017
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@speedwagen Can you provide dates on the transfer in/out transaction(s) you experienced? I also think the time-of-day when the transfer request was made matters ... I guess there would be a cut-off.
9:23 am
December 18, 2024
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Would it also not make a difference of time zones as well?
10:30 am
April 6, 2013
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Yes, time zone does matter.
The Payments Canada ACSS batch cutoff times (9:30 am, 4:30 pm, and 9:00 pm) are Eastern time. There's no way a financial institution in BC can be credited the same day through the clearing system for a pre-authorized debit created or a cheque deposited at 7 pm Pacific time, which is 10 pm Eastern.
Financial institutions often don't submit the item into clearing immediately either. Tangerine Bank requires transfer of funds out to be for next day and not same day. But, the funds don't arrive by 9:30 am + 2 h = 11:30 am the next day. They actually arrive by 4:30 pm + 2 h = 6:30 pm the next day. So, Tangerine uploads the direct deposit items sometime after 9:30 am eventhough Tangerine has the items by then.
12:23 pm
April 9, 2013
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It looks like my original post may not have been clear. I'm referring to externally generated PAD's & PAC's, i.e. Simplii linked @ another FI.
In response to hwyc, the EFT's are post-dated to a specific date & are thus sent to Simplii early morning on the date specified. Simplii in turn obviously receives the ACH file sometime the same day, but doesn't process it until overnite & credits or debits your acc't @ that time without backdating.
If you look @ your transaction history online, you would see that if the funds were transferred say Nov10, it would've shown up last night (Nov11) dated Nov12 because today is a banking holiday, however, what you won't become aware of until your interest paydate 1st, then your estatement, is that if it was a credit, you'd only get interest starting Nov12 because the effective date = the posting date, but if it was a debit, the effective date would be backdated to Nov10, so you'd only get interest up to Nov9. You'd essentially lose interest for Nov10+11 if you transferred in to Simplii & your other FI would start interest Nov10, the day after Simplii would stop, if transferred out of Simplii, i.e. no double-dip. In a nutshell, you lose when you transfer in, but you don't get it back when you transfer out.
The estatements actually now have 2 date columns - transaction date, which is the date they processed your transaction & effective date, which is the day they determined unilaterally. To recap using the examples above, a transfer in would post as transaction date Nov12 & effective date Nov12, a transfer out would post as transaction date Nov12 & effective date Nov10. I hope I've clarified myself.
But I'm getting the impression from your responses to date that no one's been aware of this rather underhanded scheme. That's why I was wondering why there aren't any banking laws preventing those kinds of improprieties? If there are, I'm sure we'd all love to hear about them.
Mordko, I'd like to know where it says that transactions can be backdated in their T&C's. The explicit wording might shed some light on how they've thought this out. If it's as you say, that almost implies that FI's can spell out whatever terms they choose, as long as they're in writing. If so, accountholders beware!!
12:57 pm
September 30, 2017
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Your 2nd post provided extra context.
I did notice the two column of dates on my Simplii statements but also very puzzled at their explanation.
Interest Charges - Interest (including interest on charges and insurance premiums, if applicable) is calculated on the daily closing
balance of your account and accrues from the date a transaction is made (i.e., the “eff. date”). The “trans. date” is the date when the transaction was posted to your account and may vary from the "eff. date".
I tried to understand it with stock trading where there is a trade date & a settlement date. I didn't think of it too much because the base rate is so low. A day or two's amount is insignificant to me.
On 2nd thought, if a transaction is back-dated, I guess it is not an automated one.
Back to the topic. Is it supposed to work like crossing the international date line? You lose a day in one direction, gaining it back in the reverse. The fact is I did loss days of interest crossing between FIs …sometimes.
6:34 pm
April 6, 2013
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speedwagen said
It looks like my original post may not have been clear. I'm referring to externally generated PAD's & PAC's, i.e. Simplii linked @ another FI.…
If you look @ your transaction history online, you would see that if the funds were transferred say Nov10, it would've shown up last night (Nov11) dated Nov12 because today is a banking holiday, however, what you won't become aware of until your interest paydate 1st, then your estatement, is that if it was a credit, you'd only get interest starting Nov12 because the effective date = the posting date, but if it was a debit, the effective date would be backdated to Nov10, so you'd only get interest up to Nov9. You'd essentially lose interest for Nov10+11 if you transferred in to Simplii & your other FI would start interest Nov10, the day after Simplii would stop, if transferred out of Simplii, i.e. no double-dip. …
… To recap using the examples above, a transfer in would post as transaction date Nov12 & effective date Nov12, a transfer out would post as transaction date Nov12 & effective date Nov10. I hope I've clarified myself.
That will not be the case. Those are not real examples.
An actual November 10 direct deposit sent to the Simplii account will be both posted and dated November 10 if it was sent to Simplii by 9 pm that day. Simplii can post incoming direct deposits within 2 hours of the cutoff time the deposit is received by.
An actual November 10 preauthorized debit sent to the Simplii account will be posted November 12 and dated November 10 if it was sent to Simplii by 9 pm on November 10. Simplii takes at least one business day to post incoming preauthorized debits.
I've sent funds to my Simplii account from my Scotia iTRADE brokerage account and from my Tangerine Bank account many times. The funds from Scotia iTRADE are posted by Simplii late afternoon the same business day. The funds from Tangerine are posted late afternoon the business day the withdrawal is scheduled.
3:42 pm
September 11, 2013
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Used to be when I pulled money into Simplii from TD I'd see the deposit there the next day.
Now there's no sign of the deposit the next day, it's taking at least until the day after that. Anybody else notice a change?
7:25 am
April 6, 2013
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I didn't see a change. A pull at Simplii from an external account, scheduled the next business day, was posted to the Simplii HISA that day in the morning.
Was the next day a business day?
9:58 am
September 11, 2013
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Pulled money into Simplii, set it up on Monday evening thus dated Tuesday, it showed up Wednesday, dated Wednesday. For example. Seems to have started maybe a few months ago, at least for me. Maybe it's because I do it usually around 7 - 9 pm Ontario time?
11:17 am
April 21, 2022
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Bill said
Pulled money into Simplii, set it up on Monday evening thus dated Tuesday, it showed up Wednesday, dated Wednesday. For example. Seems to have started maybe a few months ago, at least for me. Maybe it's because I do it usually around 7 - 9 pm Ontario time?
Need to do it a little earlier, somewhere around 6PM ET. There's a cut-off sometime in the evening, don't ask me precisely when.
4:24 pm
September 11, 2013
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Maybe that's it then, though it's interesting that they still let you select the next day when you set up the transfer even though it won't happen that day.
5:26 pm
April 21, 2022
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Bill said
Maybe that's it then, though it's interesting that they still let you select the next day when you set up the transfer even though it won't happen that day.
Yup. I learned that lesson the hard way a long time ago.
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