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PCF "CHIP" Debit Cards
October 15, 2009
12:15 pm
djino
Ottawa (Gatineau, Qc Area)
Member
Forum Posts: 246
Member Since:
December 12, 2008
Offline

Just got my PCF Chip Card the other day, it looks much nicer than the original.

If you want yours:

1) Login to Online Banking
2) Click Special Request TAB on the top red bar
3) Under the Account Services section choose Replace damaged bank card
4) Verify Address and click Order replacement card now

Note: If you had to update your address, you will need to wait 1 business day before ordering your replacement card as they will send to address you had previously if you order it right away.

You get 1 free replacement per calendar year. More than one replacements will be charged $5 (I think), so if you have already received a replacement in 2009, wait until January.

You will also keep the same debit card numbers since you are not reporting this lost or stolen. No need to activate new card, old card will go inactive when new card is used the 1st time (or when 60 Days have past since new card has been issued — whichever comes first).

djino

October 16, 2009
2:06 am
mike
Member
Forum Posts: 161
Member Since:
March 25, 2009
Offline

RE: Chip Card

I have been using a Chip Card now in the UK for just over a year and while it's great new technology it's less secure than signing for it and having the cashier check your card and signature.

With a Chip Card, people actually walk around and "scan" the cards as they are being used (illegally) here and you can then use the Chip Card PIN number on the internet. It's actually quite common to have your PIN and Chip Card read and stolen.

Even though we have a Chip Card card and it's VERY common here in the UK, we use our Canadian MasterCard (non-Chip) 90% of the time. It is a lot more secure IMO.

Mike

Have a great day
October 16, 2009
4:43 am
djino
Ottawa (Gatineau, Qc Area)
Member
Forum Posts: 246
Member Since:
December 12, 2008
Offline

I was actually referring to Presidents Choice Debit Chip card (linked to your checking account).

As Chip Credit cards have been around for a few years (In Canada), Chip on debit client cards are pretty new (in Canada). I am not suggesting that CHIP technology is 100% secure, it is much more secure than our current method of swiping our debit cards (using the magnetic strip) and punching in our PINS — which can be compromised much easier than when using CHIP technology.

I agree with you when it applies to CHIP Credit cards, but for a different reason. When Non-chip credit card transactions occur, you obviously sign for it. If any fraudulent should occur, you have the zero liability protection — you call your Credit card issuer to report the issue, they IMMEDIATELY remove the charge from your account while they investigate. With the more current CHIP/PIN Credit cards, should a fraudulent transaction for which it was a PIN-related transaction, this makes it easier for banks to find the client responsible for the transaction.

djino

October 16, 2009
10:51 pm
Doug
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Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
December 12, 2009
Offline

I'm also not a fan of CHIP technology, from what I've read. First, I fear that the "zero-liability" policy already available on credit cards, where the card issuer reverses the charge and charges it back to the merchant when there's been a disputed transaction, will become a lot more cumbersome for customers experiencing fraudulent transactions – and it'll take longer to be reimbursed, since the banks will be on the hook now for fraudulent transactions not the merchants. And because the banks will be responsible for fraudulent activity, they'll scrutinize disputed transaction reports as they already do with PIN-based debit card fraudulent activity. That's good, to discourage fraudulent reports of fraudulent activity, but it also puts too much onus on legitimate fraudulent activity reports from law-abiding, honest citizens.

As well, quite frankly, I'm not convinced they're all that more secure. Even when my Visa is ultimately upgraded to CHIP, I'll continue to request merchants swipe it the old-fashioned way and have me sign the transaction slip. It's just the way I prefer to operate. If the merchant doesn't like it, perhaps I can write them a cheque? Now there's old-fashioned. :)

Cheers,
Doug

October 17, 2009
5:00 am
Scone
Guest

My credit card issuers recently replaced my old cards with chip cards. A few weeks ago I attempted to pay for something with a credit card like I've always done, but the vendor actually had a chip card terminal (not all do yet), and I of course hadn't memorized my credit card PIN yet. Imagine my surprise when the vendor refused to to the transaction with the old "swipe and sign" procedure. According to the vendor, if they did that and I turned out to be a fraud (i.e. not the card user or not authorized to use the card), the vendor would be on the hook for the transaction cost since the vendor had a PIN terminal but chose not to use it. I offered to show my driver's license to back up the name and signature on the credit card, but the vendor wouldn't budge. Sounds to me like there are going to be a few growing pains in the future as we transition to this new technology. BTW I had to pay cash to settle the transaction.

October 18, 2009
5:20 pm
djino
Ottawa (Gatineau, Qc Area)
Member
Forum Posts: 246
Member Since:
December 12, 2008
Offline

I could be mistaken, but I thought a vendor would NOT have the option in choosing to swipe or use CHIP for the transaction. Meaning, if the terminal is a CHIP terminal and the credit card was a CHIP/PIN Card, that if the vendor swiped, the terminal wouldn't allow the transaction forcing the vendor to apply use CHIP/PIN for the transaction.

Am I wrong?

October 19, 2009
6:05 am
Scone
Guest

I think everyone is still trying to figure out the rules, including the vendors. In my case, the card terminal allowed for both chip reading and card swiping, but it was the vendor who wouldn't allow me to swipe the card. I didn't ask directly, but I gathered from the vendor that he was able to override the chip reader in favour of the card swipe reader, but by doing so he exposed himself to liability that he wasn't prepared to take on. I don't know if he was right or wrong, but it was his store and he felt so strongly about it that he was willing to lose a sale (I happened to have enough cash on me to cover the cost).

May 17, 2012
3:37 pm
kiki
Guest

Just wondering, if you have a PC Financial debit card, is there a way you can see what transactions were made on the card online? what information is provided if you can, like does it give the name of the place, location, amount ? Thanks

May 17, 2012
6:38 pm
Maxi
Guest

My Unfee account at Cambrian Credit Union shows all debit card purchases immediately after I make them online. I also have alerts set-up on my account which sends me an email every time my debit card is used at an ATM. I'm sure PC would have similar features.

May 24, 2012
8:38 am
reg
Guest

I also check my chip PC Mastercard twice weekly. It allows me to put the money aside as I pay the balance each month and keeps my budget in check. It also allows me to see if there are purchases I am not familiar with!

Case in point, and this is sort of funny. I checked my statement online before Mother's Day. I saw a $25.00 charge from our favourite Chinese food place. I almost went balistic thinking, shoot, someone has our number! Then after fuming for a few minutes, I realized it must be my Mother's Day gift. I had almost hollered to my husband, "Someone's using our card, there's a $25.00 charge for ______." Well, was my face red, thank goodness I figured it out in time.

And yes, I was very surprised to find in my Mother's Day card a lovely $25.00 gift card which we promptly used!

regsmith

May 26, 2012
4:34 pm
Yatti420
Guest
11

Doug said:

I'm also not a fan of CHIP technology, from what I've read. First, I fear that the "zero-liability" policy already available on credit cards, where the card issuer reverses the charge and charges it back to the merchant when there's been a disputed transaction, will become a lot more cumbersome for customers experiencing fraudulent transactions – and it'll take longer to be reimbursed, since the banks will be on the hook now for fraudulent transactions not the merchants. And because the banks will be responsible for fraudulent activity, they'll scrutinize disputed transaction reports as they already do with PIN-based debit card fraudulent activity. That's good, to discourage fraudulent reports of fraudulent activity, but it also puts too much onus on legitimate fraudulent activity reports from law-abiding, honest citizens.
As well, quite frankly, I'm not convinced they're all that more secure. Even when my Visa is ultimately upgraded to CHIP, I'll continue to request merchants swipe it the old-fashioned way and have me sign the transaction slip. It's just the way I prefer to operate. If the merchant doesn't like it, perhaps I can write them a cheque? Now there's old-fashioned. :)
Cheers,
Doug

I have a pet peeve when it comes to this.. People think im crazy when they see what I've done to my creditcards.. All my credit cards have tape over the chips to fallback to signing method.. I basically never conduct a chip and pin transaction..Doug has it right when it comes to Liability.. There are already lawsuits involving banks disputing charges.. New technology is never secure.. Note the US still doesn't use chip & pin.. While its adoption is picking up its pretty scary seeing how easy and what can be done.. I noticed the other day when chip & pin debit failed (network down) it rolled back to dialup so not really sure how its protecting me any better then before..

June 2, 2012
12:16 am
SC
Guest

Believe it or not fallback (swiping chip card over chip terminal) does NOT make the merchant more liable than swiping non-chip card, the issuer (bank) is supposed to decline coded fallback transactions (the F after Auth number and/or chip card swiped on merchant receipt) or the issuer takes the risk of allowing transaction. This is probably supposed to be the scenario where the customer phones the bank to report broken chip and bank temporarily turns fallback on for the few days it takes to send new card but instead the banks seem to have continue to leave on all cards. Terminals that are not upgraded to tell the difference do face increased liability as all cards are coded as swipe and would be allowed even after 2015 (not over Interac though) . Terminals from my experience have many codes (these come after the auth OR authorization number):

S-Swipe (non chip card, or non-chip terminal)
C-Chip
F-chip card swiped (fallback)
K-Card Keyed (same as swiped but manually entered in).
G-Chip card keyed.
T-Tap, proximity (paypass or paywave).

Code C,F and G are all exclusive to chip terminals.

Keying in chip card at chip terminal has same risk as keying in non-chip card at any terminal. Both have card not present risks (unless you get mechanical imprint at which point it becomes card present for both).

Basically Visa, MC want the terminals to be able to tell the difference but some places such as parking gates or low value sales without PIN facilities might find it cheaper to eat chargebacks over copied chip cards than upgrade. In that case provided they're not taking debit (which has cut off date) the merchant can hold off chip upgrades forever if they so wish and eat the cost.

Just because the card has a chip does not necessarily mean a PIN will be required. EMV (chip) supports offline PIN (on chip itself and what terminals detect), Signature on paper, no cvm (card verification method), Online PIN (atm). If you lock out your PIN after three, it will revert to signature if allowed and in some countries the machines have what's called PIN bypass (PIN not entered at all) where the machine asks the bank if taking a signature is ok instead (usually for transition periods and usually not routinely approved after certain date OR for countries under chip/signature regimes). Some machines in certain countries do not support PIN entry over chip so even Chip/PIN cards will be signature based in that scenario.

MasterCard issuers seems more willing to approve cards with locked PINs in canada (enter PIN wrong three times) and you sign instead.

Many cards here and overseas will by signature based chip cards where there will be no offline PIN and you will have to sign the receipt when card is inserted and approved. Card will not be swiped in such case. I believe PC MasterCard was the case until last year.

From a cardholders pov I'm indifferent (I sign in both swipe or chip scenarios). From a cashiers pov they are a throbbing headache and the supervisor in my store sometimes just overrides the Chip and lets the cust sign (I'm not allowed to unless the chip isn't working which seems to be a lot).

June 2, 2012
12:29 am
SC
Guest

Yatti420 said:

Doug said:

I'm also not a fan of CHIP technology, from what I've read. First, I fear that the "zero-liability" policy already available on credit cards, where the card issuer reverses the charge and charges it back to the merchant when there's been a disputed transaction, will become a lot more cumbersome for customers experiencing fraudulent transactions – and it'll take longer to be reimbursed, since the banks will be on the hook now for fraudulent transactions not the merchants. And because the banks will be responsible for fraudulent activity, they'll scrutinize disputed transaction reports as they already do with PIN-based debit card fraudulent activity. That's good, to discourage fraudulent reports of fraudulent activity, but it also puts too much onus on legitimate fraudulent activity reports from law-abiding, honest citizens.
As well, quite frankly, I'm not convinced they're all that more secure. Even when my Visa is ultimately upgraded to CHIP, I'll continue to request merchants swipe it the old-fashioned way and have me sign the transaction slip. It's just the way I prefer to operate. If the merchant doesn't like it, perhaps I can write them a cheque? Now there's old-fashioned. :)
Cheers,
Doug

I have a pet peeve when it comes to this.. People think im crazy when they see what I've done to my creditcards.. All my credit cards have tape over the chips to fallback to signing method.. I basically never conduct a chip and pin transaction..Doug has it right when it comes to Liability.. There are already lawsuits involving banks disputing charges.. New technology is never secure.. Note the US still doesn't use chip & pin.. While its adoption is picking up its pretty scary seeing how easy and what can be done.. I noticed the other day when chip & pin debit failed (network down) it rolled back to dialup so not really sure how its protecting me any better then before..

Did you try entering the wrong PIN three times and locking the PIN first, depending on card you might be able to sign instead over chip without a PIN if the PIN is what you are worried about. You may even be able to get card from bank that doesn't need PIN. If that doesn't work than go back to what you had before with the fallback (though breaking chip will be easier to deal as most ATMs still allow anyways).