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December 9, 2019
1:36 pm
picassocat
Québec
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It’s 4 :30 pm EST and their updating the system. What a crappy time for customers, my balances are not updated and the service line can’t help either. Wait is the only answer when I wanted to e-interac out some money.

December 9, 2019
6:20 pm
picassocat
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Five hours later, balances are up to date but impossible to move any money out via e-transfers because nothing is functioning except transferring from an account to another. When will it end?

It's 10:10 pm and finally got an e-transfer to work, finally. Only took about 6 hours to complete.

Not even a week in with this bank and I’m learning: if you make a transaction and balances are not updated, your transaction probably went thru; you just need to wait for «the system» to update, eventually. If you need to move money in via e-transfer, check before if the B2b system is operational otherwise you will not be able to deposit there. If you need money for Friday, better start working to get it out on Thursday. I’m not kidding.

I'm not brave enough yet to pay bills with this bank, I want to, but the confidence is not there. Has anyone paid bills with this bank?

December 10, 2019
9:08 am
Londonguy
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picassocat said

...if you look around you will find Canadian bonds can pay much more, see ZLC, ZPL, XLB etc. Even Canadian preferred shares (ZPR 5,42%) pay better dividends....

You ignored the point I was trying to make. I have equities, GICs, physical gold and real estate but my HISA deposits are used to hold that portion of my assets where I am seeking minimal market risk. I would say I'm looking for no risk whatsoever, but even a HISA has CDN$ currency risk in terms of relative purchasing power.

All of the alternatives you referenced are subject to potential capital loss due to interest rate risk and therefore don't qualify. That especially applies to bond mutual funds or ETFs, where holding out to maturity (and thereby getting your original capital back if rates have moved against you) isn't one of your choices. In a bond fund or bond ETF, the capital impairment from a higher interest rate environment could be permanent.

I'm actually quite thrilled to be averaging over 3% on my nearly riskless cash holdings while not having to make any term commitments. In conjunction with holding gold, it provides somewhat of a hedge against interest rate movements, up or down. It's an imperfect hedge, but it's better than no hedge at all

December 10, 2019
10:35 am
butterflycharm
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picassocat said
It’s 4 :30 pm EST and their updating the system. What a crappy time for customers, my balances are not updated and the service line can’t help either. Wait is the only answer when I wanted to e-interac out some money.  

It's not about time. There is something big and bad going on there. This will take few weeks to months probably to get working. Seems to me they have a very incompetent team or started without testing.

December 10, 2019
11:20 am
butterflycharm
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Londonguy said

picassocat said

...if you look around you will find Canadian bonds can pay much more, see ZLC, ZPL, XLB etc. Even Canadian preferred shares (ZPR 5,42%) pay better dividends....

You ignored the point I was trying to make. I have equities, GICs, physical gold and real estate but my HISA deposits are used to hold that portion of my assets where I am seeking minimal market risk. I would say I'm looking for no risk whatsoever, but even a HISA has CDN$ currency risk in terms of relative purchasing power.

All of the alternatives you referenced are subject to potential capital loss due to interest rate risk and therefore don't qualify. That especially applies to bond mutual funds or ETFs, where holding out to maturity (and thereby getting your original capital back if rates have moved against you) isn't one of your choices. In a bond fund or bond ETF, the capital impairment from a higher interest rate environment could be permanent.

I'm actually quite thrilled to be averaging over 3% on my nearly riskless cash holdings while not having to make any term commitments. In conjunction with holding gold, it provides somewhat of a hedge against interest rate movements, up or down. It's an imperfect hedge, but it's better than no hedge at all  

Good point. I agree with you. There are many voices that jump at the idea and offer riskier options as alternatives and miss the point while this should be a simple HISA risk type of talk.

Interesting point about purchasing power you mentioned. Is there ANYTHING that can guarantee a purchasing power in the global village? gold? swiss franc? or that is the trillion dollar question? still, for the not so wealthy, what is a good investment system with very low risk meeting inflation rates?

P.S. Would you say it's worth it to open and LBC account as well with B2B given it does hit credit report?

December 10, 2019
11:30 am
smayer97
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Although a low risk, there is always the risk of insolvency and the time to recoup from CDIC, etc., just to put it on the table.

As for worthwhileness of opening with both LBC and B2B, the credit report hit is minimal and does not take long to recover, so it all depends on your need for timing, how low your score currently is, vs risk exposure above the $100K CDIC limit and the need to spread across multiple account types and banks.

December 10, 2019
12:09 pm
picassocat
Québec
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For now I will not open an account with LBC digital (maybe in the future if it’s worthwhile), I will stay with B2b and probably get faster service in French. I suspect that when LBC digital goes public and fully opens in Québec, their service in French may be slower. We shall see.

December 10, 2019
1:48 pm
Londonguy
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butterflycharm said Is there ANYTHING that can guarantee a purchasing power in the global village? gold? swiss franc? or that is the trillion dollar question? still, for the not so wealthy, what is a good investment system with very low risk meeting inflation rates?

No one thing IMO. Maybe a legitimate, globally accepted and sanctioned crypto-currency if such a thing ever comes to exist. However, the currently available cryptos scare me, mostly because I don't fully understand them, and I find it impossible to invest heavily in something I don't understand. In the meantime, I have a sizeable physical gold allocation for lack of an alternative.

As for a system, I wouldn't exactly call it a system, but now I only do what I'm comfortable with, as in "sleep like a log" comfortable. Over time I've discovered I actually enjoy not being stressed, and my body and health prefer it that way too. When I was younger, my idea of investment action meant fooling around with cocoa contracts and pork bellies and orange juice and daytrading SPX futures and equity options, but nowadays it means mundane stuff like micromanaging my income taxes and stickhandling HISA promo rates. I've made it, lost it, made it again, lost it again, and then made it a third time. I don't intend on doing something stupid now that results in my having to go back in the ring for round #4. If you have to label it, I guess you could say I now concentrate on "return of capital" rather than "return on capital'.

Probably a lot more than you wanted to hear or know but that's my answer.

butterflycharm said P.S. Would you say it's worth it to open and LBC account as well with B2B given it does hit credit report?  

As previously mentioned by another poster, if you experienced a hard credit hit to open a HISA at either B2B or LBC, it would have been fairly trivial (maybe 6-8 points) and it's also temporary -- your score will recover after a few months. In my own particular case, when I opened my accounts at B2B (August) and LBC (November), they were only soft pulls anyway, meaning they had no effect on my score whatsoever. Having said that, I can't say for certain that B2B/LBC treat every application the same way.

December 10, 2019
2:04 pm
butterflycharm
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picassocat said
For now I will not open an account with LBC digital (maybe in the future if it’s worthwhile), I will stay with B2b and probably get faster service in French. I suspect that when LBC digital goes public and fully opens in Québec, their service in French may be slower. We shall see.  

Did the French rep tell you if they speak English as well?
Does their French version of the site also work better?
sf-laughsf-laugh

December 10, 2019
2:15 pm
RicksBank
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Londonguy said
As previously mentioned by another poster, if you experienced a hard credit hit to open a HISA at either B2B or LBC, it would have been fairly trivial (maybe 6-8 points) and it's also temporary -- your score will recover after a few months.

I have no idea what it means to get a hard credit hit (or any hit) on a credit rating just by opening a bank account. Is this easily explained?

December 10, 2019
3:03 pm
picassocat
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butterflycharm said

Did the French rep tell you if they speak English as well?
Does their French version of the site also work better?
sf-laughsf-laugh  

I don’t know if they spoke English, but they spoke in perfect French. The site is the same in English & French; it’s just an adjustment in your preferences, so we are probably plagued in both languages. sf-surprised

December 10, 2019
4:09 pm
Londonguy
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RicksBank said
I have no idea what it means to get a hard credit hit (or any hit) on a credit rating just by opening a bank account. Is this easily explained?  

Not easily, but I'll try anyway.

When you apply for credit, the financial institution (FI) to which you applied will commonly pull your credit bureau file (at either Equifax or TransUnion or both) to familiarize themselves with your credit history and establish that you are who you claim to be in terms of what you entered on your application. Besides being common sense, this is obviously very critical in an on-line world populated with would-be identity thieves, scammers and money launderers.

A so-called hard inquiry or hard pull is one where the FI requests a copy of your full credit history. Most common reason is for a credit card or mortgage. You have to agree in writing for this (it will appear somewhere in the application), so you'll know in advance if it's going to take place. For each unrelated hard inquiry, the algorithms that determine your credit score will make a small deduction that reflects you are seeking credit (which could be meaningless, or it might not). Since it's scoring people out of 900, a few point deduction will have no meaningful impact, and it will reverse itself within a few months provided there are no other material changes in your file. However, to use an extreme example, if you suddenly applied for 13 credit cards and 5 lines of credit within the same week and the algorithm dinged you 6-8 points for each incident, it would stick out like a sore thumb and suggest that perhaps you were in some kind of financial trouble.

A so-called soft inquiry OTOH is one where the FI merely pings your bureau and gets basic information about you. They need a legitimate business reason but not your express permission to make a soft inquiry, and it has no impact on your credit score. Once you have established credit with a given FI, many will do periodic (monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, whatever) soft pulls in the background without you even knowing it in order to update your file and monitor that your credit status has not changed.

So what's all this got to do with bank account openings? Due to expanding money laundering laws, know your client rules and tightening internal policies, it is not uncommon for FIs to ask for permission to do a hard pull just to open a bank account, even when no credit granting is contemplated (this happened to me in recent years with Simplii, Equitable Bank, Ideal Savings, WealthOne, DUCA, Meridian and Motive). However, other FIs were content to open a bank account with only a soft pull (in my own case that includes CTC Bank, Alterna, Hubert (Sunova), B2B Bank and Laurentian Digital). Maybe @Norman1 can explain why some do and some don't, but I can't.

Bottom line is that not every FI will do a hard pull all of the time when opening a HISA. Knowing who routinely does or doesn't do a hard pull is therefore of special interest to individuals with impaired scores on the margin of statistical credit worthiness, because they care if putting in an application for something is going to cost them a hard pull or not

December 10, 2019
4:56 pm
RicksBank
Alberta
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Londonguy said
Not easily, but I'll try anyway.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a helpful reply!

December 11, 2019
12:48 pm
butterflycharm
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Londonguy said

Not easily, but I'll try anyway.

When you apply for credit, the financial institution (FI) to which you applied will commonly pull your credit bureau file (at either Equifax or TransUnion or both) to familiarize themselves with your credit history and establish that you are who you claim to be in terms of what you entered on your application. Besides being common sense, this is obviously very critical in an on-line world populated with would-be identity thieves, scammers and money launderers.

A so-called hard inquiry or hard pull is one where the FI requests a copy of your full credit history. Most common reason is for a credit card or mortgage. You have to agree in writing for this (it will appear somewhere in the application), so you'll know in advance if it's going to take place. For each unrelated hard inquiry, the algorithms that determine your credit score will make a small deduction that reflects you are seeking credit (which could be meaningless, or it might not). Since it's scoring people out of 900, a few point deduction will have no meaningful impact, and it will reverse itself within a few months provided there are no other material changes in your file. However, to use an extreme example, if you suddenly applied for 13 credit cards and 5 lines of credit within the same week and the algorithm dinged you 6-8 points for each incident, it would stick out like a sore thumb and suggest that perhaps you were in some kind of financial trouble.

A so-called soft inquiry OTOH is one where the FI merely pings your bureau and gets basic information about you. They need a legitimate business reason but not your express permission to make a soft inquiry, and it has no impact on your credit score. Once you have established credit with a given FI, many will do periodic (monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, whatever) soft pulls in the background without you even knowing it in order to update your file and monitor that your credit status has not changed.

So what's all this got to do with bank account openings? Due to expanding money laundering laws, know your client rules and tightening internal policies, it is not uncommon for FIs to ask for permission to do a hard pull just to open a bank account, even when no credit granting is contemplated (this happened to me in recent years with Simplii, Equitable Bank, Ideal Savings, WealthOne, DUCA, Meridian and Motive). However, other FIs were content to open a bank account with only a soft pull (in my own case that includes CTC Bank, Alterna, Hubert (Sunova), B2B Bank and Laurentian Digital). Maybe @Norman1 can explain why some do and some don't, but I can't.

Bottom line is that not every FI will do a hard pull all of the time when opening a HISA. Knowing who routinely does or doesn't do a hard pull is therefore of special interest to individuals with impaired scores on the margin of statistical credit worthiness, because they care if putting in an application for something is going to cost them a hard pull or not  

In short sentences:
Hard hit: every one else who checks your credit history can see it.
Soft hit: only you can see the soft hits on your credit history.

From above you can deduct that if a financial institution sees a lot of hard hits from many different other parties they may not like extending you credit. There are probably other ways FIs chunk this too but basically it's seen vs not-seen for hard and soft.

December 11, 2019
12:57 pm
Bill
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Just signed in to B2B, wouldn't let me in until I made new password as my "credentials has expired". Ok, if you say so.

December 11, 2019
2:10 pm
picassocat
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For me the system is down since this morning. Am I alone or anyone else?

December 11, 2019
2:14 pm
John H
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picassocat said
For me the system is down since this morning. Am I alone or anyone else?  

I was just logged in OK

December 11, 2019
2:37 pm
picassocat
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Still down for me, can’t even get to the login page since this morning. I just called and the rep said it could take 24 to 48 hours. sf-yell

December 11, 2019
2:47 pm
RicksBank
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Still working for me too.

December 11, 2019
3:00 pm
picassocat
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RicksBank said
Still working for me too.  

I have to move out west to get a working bank sf-wink

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